Goblins comic & Patreon

[computerslayer]

A few months ago someone mentioned crowd-sourced funding for Tarol & Danielle. I missed that thread (and apparently it got sidetracked with some negativity), but another web comic I read, Weregeek launched a Patreon account.

I was impressed with what the author, Alina Pete, has set up. You can donate monthly (automatically, I presume) in small or large amounts as you prefer. I would happily donate $5/month to a few of my favorite web comic authors - I know it's not much, but that could add up to quite a bit between multiple readers & time.

What do you all think?

[WearsHats]

Thunt said last year that he was thinking about it. Thing is it's expected to come with rewards, and Thunt has had more than enough trouble keeping up with regular content, never mind bonus material. So he wasn't sure what he could offer.

Evil Inc. gives access to sneak peeks and past PDFs. Something like that might work, except there are only a few PDFs and Thunt tweets the sneak peeks anyway...

[PaintsTurtles]

Not to be excessively negative, but as Wears said, THunt already struggles with bonus material and it would probably add even more pressure if he's suddenly got people paying regularly with the expectation of patreon rewards. It might be something to consider further down the line, but seeing as THunt is clearly going through some major life troubles right now, it's probably very premature to consider it at this point.

[computerslayer]

Yeah, I remember seeing the conversation about rewards on the previous thread too.

Am I alone in thinking a bunch of us would be willing to donate regularly purely to donate? I like the idea of being a 'patron', with no strings attached. I see on Alina Pete's Patreon account an option to donate without rewards - it'd be great to have even just that available for Goblins.


(To be clear, I have no desire to add to Tarol's stress. If anything, I'd like to help in some material way - financial support really - without expectation of anything beyond the satisfaction of having supported him & Danielle.)

[Jural]

You can definitely donate without a reward.

In fact, I support SMBC on Patreon and never even use my reward (I think I can see comics a day early?)

I wouldn't consider Patreon until the comic is back up and the current issue resolved, but after that I certainly would.

One more thing- if a "reward" is a must, it doesn't have to be content related. Free admission to a yearly bash at some convention, or the right to put it in your signature on the forums, etc. would be OK.

[Wild Thyme]

Downside is that there might be some who give money and end up with entitlement issues that they need X, Y, and G for giving money and not getting anything in return. Not saying I would, but I have seen a fair share of entitlement issues when it comes to money and those that give it expecting others to bend over backwards for them. Look at how some readers of a free comic react when the comic doesn't show for a few weeks. Happened here, on The Meek, and other comics where the artists had to take a leave of absence. Even if no one did expect something in return, Thunt might end up feel he owes others, etc.

[RocketScientist]

For that matter, look at the number of people who didn't even donate to Tempts Fate, but still insist that they're owed... something. Even though all the rewards have been sent out, and the number of promised pages have been drawn. Still they keep insisting that "we" paid for his entire house as a gift to him. Which... I don't know where those people live, but $30K isn't going to buy a whole house, or even a busted-ass trailer next to a stench factory where I live any time soon. And I live in one of the cheapest parts of my state. That $ was raised for the down payment, not the whole house.

[Wild Thyme]

For that matter, look at the number of people who didn't even donate to Tempts Fate, but still insist that they're owed... something. Even though all the rewards have been sent out, and the number of promised pages have been drawn. Still they keep insisting that "we" paid for his entire house as a gift to him. Which... I don't know where those people live, but $30K isn't going to buy a whole house, or even a busted-ass trailer next to a stench factory where I live any time soon. And I live in one of the cheapest parts of my state. That $ was raised for the down payment, not the whole house.

This. ^ Thank you.

And it was a gift. Not like we told him, we'll give you this money if you give us all free books, or something to that effect. A gift is no strings attached. He didn't even want to do a Tempts Fate for it or turn to us for it.

[Occams Meataxe]

Add me to the column of people asking "Why would you do that?"
The Tempts Fate material was paid for years ago and never delivered.
The Goblins card game is still in limbo.
Until Thunt makes good on what he's already been paid for it would be foolish for him to make new promises.

[WhispersToSquirrels]

For that matter, look at the number of people who didn't even donate to Tempts Fate, but still insist that they're owed... something.

It's always amazed me how many people seem to think that just because they are accustomed to something they are somehow entitled to it.

[WearsHats]

The Tempts Fate material was paid for years ago and never delivered.

False.

Thunt promised 4 pages. He drew 4 pages. He then decided that, due to overwhelming support, he'd go above and beyond to do an extra 2 pages, but he didn't manage to get those done. Everything promised during the campaign, though, has been delivered.

The Goblins card game is still in limbo.

False.

We've gotten updates from them. They had to rejigger the rules because there was a significant rules imbalance uncovered during playtesting. (Basically, if you got Kore and knew what you were doing, you could win the game, every time, no matter what other people did.) Unfortunately, tweaking the rules meant redoing all the cards. Which takes a lot of time and effort. So the game was delayed. But they're still working on it. And they never gave us a rollout timetable in the first place.

It's not in limbo. It's in progress. They made the playtesting version. I played it myself. They did the art and the cards and the rules and everything. But there was a setback and they take very seriously their responsibility not just to make the game but to make it right.

Until Thunt makes good on what he's already been paid for it would be foolish for him to make new promises.

He did. He's delivered everything he promised. And the card game is Evertide's responsibility, not his. He did his part for that. But it's their game. He did the art for it and granted them license to produce it but it's Evertide's game.

If you want to complain, get your facts straight.

[RocketScientist]

Case in point.

Add me to the column of people asking "Why would you do that?"
The Tempts Fate material was paid for years ago and never delivered.
The Goblins card game is still in limbo.
Until Thunt makes good on what he's already been paid for it would be foolish for him to make new promises.

In case you've forgotten, it's not acceptable to spread misinformation about Thunt. Don't do it, or you're going to get an official warning.

My previous message to you, quoted for your convenience:

*sigh*
Thunt got fired by his last service because the schedule kept slipping.

Citation, please. Because I'm pretty sure that is not what happened, and spreading false information about Thunt is not cool.

"That Kickstarter stuff I promised? Tempts Fate? The people who paid for my house? Yeah, well I'm really, really sorry about that. Maybe someday."

1. The Kickstarter did not "pay for his house." The Tempts fate drive was to raise money for the down payment.
2. He did indeed finish all of the pages he promised at the time of the Kickstarter. After the donation drive was over, he was so excited that he promised extra pages. Those are the pages that he did not finish.
3. The last person who made this complaint to him was offered a refund of his donation money. If you'd like your donation money back, feel free to ask him. If you did not donate, you have no valid complaint there. I did donate, and I do not want my money back.
4. This is off topic. Kindly refrain from further discussion in this thread.

Link to above post. Your original is up the page from it a few posts.

[speakslittle]

I mean, I know this definitely isn't the TIME for this kinda thing, given that our boss is sick.
And I'm also super unfamiliar with the economic side of Goblins.
But, there's a lot of responsibility here, right? Advertising, merchandising, news, forum/website logistics, reputation/image management, the actual comic content. Legal whatevers. That's in addition to their private lives.
Isn't goblins just two people?
Have they talked about bringing in a trusted third or fourth (perhaps a trusted modfriend?) to help them expand in new/other ways? A liason to handle getting the site name out there, boost traffic and perhaps construct homepage news posts to relay information to the reader base. Run reader contests. Perhaps a podcast that records Thunt's drawing sessions. Maybe they could help Q4T do what he does/did. Would that help take stress off Thunt so that he can do what he loves? Something to help him generate more content so that he could feel better about a monthly donation service?

[RocketScientist]

It's fine to ask that. No worries about the timing. New ideas are always good.

He did hire a colorist once. The guy was awesome. But he couldn't keep up with Thunt's schedule, and he decided to resign. Duke deals with the website(s), so Thunt doesn't have to worry about that. Idk if they've ever considered hiring/bringing in any other people.

[speakslittle]

I kinda remember the colorist stint. The art's definitely gotten way prettier since then. It seems like Thunt hired the colorist, saw what he did and then was like "Well, I have to do that now, because it's SOOO cool!!"
I hope he does think about it though. I mean, I know that people with successful businesses put in 80-100hour work weeks because they love what they do and it's fun and everything. But I worry. Maybe help could happen. Especially if they're wanting to raise a family on top of everything, already a 24/7 job.

[Occams Meataxe]

I am not "spreading misinformation".
And since I paid actual money in both cases I'm entitled to a voice here.

The card game only has a "soon, maybe" date with a remarkably sketchy explanation.
The Tempts Fate material is only sorta, kinda, arguably done and pretty slapdash at that.

Since medical issues are keeping Thunt from working taking on extra work until he is back in the groove and can handle his normal responsibilities is unfair to himself and the people who are paying him.

If you want to be self-righteous and Mama Bear, feel free. But be honest about it.

[computerslayer]

I wouldn't consider Patreon until the comic is back up and the current issue resolved, but after that I certainly would.

One more thing- if a "reward" is a must, it doesn't have to be content related. Free admission to a yearly bash at some convention, or the right to put it in your signature on the forums, etc. would be OK.

Waiting until things are resolved is definitely the way to go. Adding new things now would be crazy.

I really like the idea of something to put in our signatures. Over at XDA Developers forum - where the 'product' is the software used to run your phone and is done for free (beer & speech) by freelance developers - donations are generally only for expressing support & thanks. The ROM/mod/kernel authors will sometimes create custom signature images for use by those who donate. This seems much more doable than any tiered reward system and still satisfying.

[RocketScientist]

I am not "spreading misinformation".

Might I direct you to Wears Hats' post above, where he shows that two of the things you said were demonstrably false? Saying things that are demonstrably false is equivalent to spreading misinformation.

Do not do it.

And since I paid actual money in both cases I'm entitled to a voice here.

Everyone is welcome to speak on the matter, regardless of whether or not they spent money. As long as what they say does not constitute libel. Saying "Thunt did not do X" is demonstrably untrue. Saying "Occam doesn't like the way Thunt did X" is fine. Again, please refer to Wears' post if you are unclear as to what Thunt did and did not do.

If you want to be self-righteous and Mama Bear, feel free. But be honest about it.

Arguing with moderators and slinging insults are two behaviors that are not acceptable.

This is your final informal warning. If you continue any of the unacceptable behaviors discussed in this post, you will receive an official warning.

[Ethereal]

Dead comic will eventually result in a dead forum. Heavy moderation will merely hasten this.

[Wolfie]

Dead comic will eventually result in a dead forum. Heavy moderation will merely hasten this.

1) It isn't heavy moderation when someone is consistently stepping out of bounds. RS is well within the bounds and rules that have been set forth to tell Occam he's wrong.

2) The comic isn't dead, that we know of, yet. It's hard when you're in the middle of something to see the other side of things. I have faith that things will eventually return to normal.

3) I realize that you're trying to help, but just like in parenting, trying to undermine the authority while they are well within bounds trying to do their job DOES NOT HELP. It hinders.

[Bad At Jokes]

I would definitely donate for more lore, axe of prissan, maze of many alts, monster and character sheets, especially lore about greybeards.

[Jural]

So I guess we could sum up Patreon for Goblins as follows:

1) It isn't a good idea while the comic is on hiatus

2) Patreon seems like it could be interesting and some people would sign up for it

3) The author is advised not to tie the patronage levels to anything which would increase his workload. In fact, ideally it would be free of any implied obligation at all.

[ThatGuy]

It seems like it'd be a better idea to just put one of those yellow donate buttons on the page instead of using Patreon, which is intended for artists who regularly put out content. This way THunt doesn't have to feel like he owes anyone anything back, and the people who donate aren't doing so under the assumption that they'll get anything in return. It's straightforward and easily recognizable too.

[Ethereal]

Another possibility is to just ignore any donate button until things get moving again. Which is where I am at right now.

[Glemp]

For what it's worth, I tried creating an account on Patreon but the login dialogue's screwy.