07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby spiderwrangler » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:26 pm

DrinksTea wrote:
spiderwrangler wrote:
DrinksTea wrote:the dwarf cries no more (surely about Forgath - do we know any other dwarves?)


Well, Kore.


Oh yeah! Well then it HAS to be about Kore. Because the last foreshadowing is about Forgath for sure. Next question: have we seen Kore cry??


Some of the faces in his face may have been?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Changes_everything » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:32 pm

There's always an unexpected twist with Thunt's stories, and he's very much into riddles and at times far fetched plots. Very sinister GM I guess :p

So I say it's a rather safe bet that NONE of these seemingly obvious or logical meanings are correct. They are carefully crafted to mean something to the reader now, only to bring a totally different meaning to light one day.


One thing I could imagine is that only every 11th prophecy of Fumbles is true...
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Teiresias » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:17 pm

"The dwarf cries no more," if it DOES apply to Kore, could potentially refer to "crying out," as in "wailing." His face reveal did seem to show a lot of wailing damned souls, if he was killed or cured I imagine he would stop "crying" in that sense.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Hjerne » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:06 pm

I don't think the serpent becoming the prey is about our Kin. It's very Thuntian to mislead us like that. I think that Forgath is going to go after some serpent. It might even be one of the alt Kins. And that could also refer back to "she saw but misunderstood" because Ruby (I think that's her name) saw Kin and Minmax together and completely misunderstood their relationship.

And whatever happens will turn Bowst and whatshername against him. They are the friends who will become enemies.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby thinkslogically » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:13 pm

I wonder if she "saw" Minmax but didn't believe that's what she was feeling because she didn't think it could happen with non Yuan Ti?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Tofu » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:56 pm

I love the trigger this was for an archive binge. Who else did a bunch of pages to get the characters and their adventures in their head. Its certainly a great way to get back into the storyline. However, I have a nagging thought at the end of my last binge (as well as settling down the query I had on stabilised -ve hit point combat victims).

I do wonder at what beats what. We have many out-of-view higher order powers in play. I find them all overpowered and overwhelmingly able to drive through any kind of set up storyline. For example, Does the Maze of Many outcomes (such as they may be visible to a prophesy) be visible to players in reality 156? I which case, this is how the prediction flood from Fumbles could include the Kin's who are levelling up in the Maze of Many.

Does a prophecy trump the acts of NotWalter? Or force him to follow acts that deliver a prophesy?
Does Maglubiyet trump NotWalter? Are they the same? Is a Teller of the Goblins able to defeat the agent of the DM Herbert?
Does the curse powering Kore beat the prophecy given to MinMax.
Given that Oblivion is now in the hands of MinMax, does this out-of-universe weapon trump in-universe actions, like prophecy or prophesy?
Do Dieties just 'know' about various prophesies, or their own prophecy, and perform their many godlike actions around these fixed parts of the 156 universe.
Can deities travel between the various universes, such as the #156 universe?
Is the Teapot of Jade (Or many multiverses of Jade Teapots) able to travel outside of the standard 156's universe's order of play?

So much mind expanded thinking to do.

My thought is that Prophesy/Prophecy is the unmovable part of the game, and acts of deities and mazes cannot fail to respect a prophecy. But, a prophecy is given by a non-diety, a Goblin teller and the Brassmoon Wall.

Note: https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/cho ... -prophesy/
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby WearsHats » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:37 pm

NotWalter is a pit fiend. The middle management of hell. Far more powerful than the flea demons, but nothing compared to the power of The Sacred.

Prophecy is a glimpse into the future, granted by the power of the gods. In most cases in D&D, devine magic is granted automatically. The gods rarely take notice of individual mortals, even high ranking clerics. (The talking wall uses arcane rather than divine magic to peer into the future, but clearly has glimpsed the same key moments.) So the gods know what's coming, but generally don't intervene directly.

The question I've been wondering about is what effect Minmax pulling Fumbles out of there prematurely might have had. Fumbles didn't fully absorb any of the imprints. Essentially, the ritual was interrupted. Might that influence his vision? Or affect any of his other powers as teller?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Krulle » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:37 am

It might well be that absorbing the imprint is easy, but deflecting the power belonging to the imprint not.
When MM pulled Fu,bles out of the air, he disturbed the powers following the imprints....
If this is the case, the Goblin clan just needs one befriended adventurer to become OP with strong tellers...
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby GathersIngredients » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 am

Wears, I'm curious: what makes you say that he didn't absorb even one imprint? How do you figure?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby WearsHats » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:08 pm

I could be wrong. But... He jumped into the middle, got overwhelmed by all of them at once, and Minmax pulled him out from the tangle while most of the cords were still there. My impression is that he made contact with most or all of them, but did not complete the "embrace." But the rules aren't clear, and we can't see that part of the room. We'll find out in time.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby crasskris » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:18 pm

I'd like to point out that it says

the shining forest is found only through heroism

not

the shining forest is only found through heroism

Which combined with the next line might also seperate into

the shining forest is found

only through heroism the dwarf cries no more
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Hjerne » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:56 pm

thinkslogically wrote:I wonder if she "saw" Minmax but didn't believe that's what she was feeling because she didn't think it could happen with non Yuan Ti?


That has to be the seeing referred to in the prediction. Since it was years ago I completely forgot the "I see you" thing. Now I think all of the third panel refers to the maze.


The mount is backwards - the maze was like a mountain. They had to work their way to the top but instead of a solid mountain above the ground it was a hollow mountain below the ground.
It is displaced - the maze exists outside our reality and time passed in there has no bearing on the outside world
The levels are gained outside of time - once again, time passed in there has no relation to the time of the outside world
She saw but misunderstood - Kin and Minmax "saw" each other but Kin did not believe it possible
The name is not right - The name on her necklace was Ken

Now if I'm right this could also mean that each of the panels consists of multiple references to a single thing.

The ears will not hear
They want the book but need to complain - Ears refuses to listen to the correct solution and it will take complains to figure it out

Two coins for a dead dwarf
Another leg lost - Forgath dies. Two coins to resurrect him? He loses his leg but Minmax remembers that the maze can replace missing body parts and that is how they wind up back in the maze.

Kind of just rambling and free associating here but I might as well considering it will almost certainly be another 5 years before we see the actions that the prophecies refer to.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby ForgetsOldName » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:21 am

I don't think "she saw but misunderstood" could be Kin. She didn't see. I'm not sure she misunderstood anything. Then she saw Minmax's injured hand and understood that she and Minmax had a psychic bond.

The only way I can make it make any sense that way is that Minmax and Kin started to "see" each other. When he told her, she didn't believe it--not exactly a misunderstanding. Either way it would be more useful to say something "she understood but it was too late for him."
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby thinkslogically » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:38 am

Hjerne wrote:Two coins for a dead dwarf
Another leg lost - Forgath dies. Two coins to resurrect him?


The spell "Gentle Repose" preserves corpses (and apparently body parts) to give folk more time to cast "Raise Dead". The spell components include one copper piece for each eye of the dead creature. Since Kore appears to have any number of eyes except two (http://goblinscomic.com/comic/10242014), and we don't know any more dwarves (yet), I would agree that Forgath dying seems most likely. Either that or we'll find a gently reposing dead dwarf somewhere who needs resurrecting - possibly one of the Greyhill paladins?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby BookWyrm17 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:55 am

I just noticed... I'm pretty sure Complain's eyes are finally back to normal, as when he was transforming into a demon they started glowing, then he raged and they turned purple, and then they were black from stress and fear. But now they're normal. Does that mean anything special, or was the demon glowing only temporary in the first place?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby GathersIngredients » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:14 pm

I think that's a berserker rage thing, the glowing eyes. Comes with IME colour (in MM and CoN's case both hues of purple) and apparently, if the IME is more - as it is now in CoN's case - it may manifest itself, too.
When the rage is ebbing away, IME and glowing eyes recede, as well.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby rwstyles » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:59 pm

Orzahn wrote:HE'S ALIVE, STIL ALIVE, YAY!
So who among you think, like me, that verything Fumbles just rambled needs to be remembered and will show up again? I mean, Thunt is a master of foreshadowing, and it's even in the dialogue.


Barring some sort of proof, I have some doubt about whether or not the bit with the thumbs was intended to be a "chekhov's gun". It was a good one, but he surely did not expect to use it that many years ago.

And at least one of them is "post shadowing".
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby mustache_man » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:02 am

WearsHats wrote:NotWalter is a pit fiend. The middle management of hell. Far more powerful than the flea demons, but nothing compared to the power of The Sacred.



I wouldn't say middle management. I'm not sure how the hierarchy of the nine layers of hell work in Hunt's universe, but they're supposed to be the generals of the hellish armies and in terms of raw power are below only the Lords of Hell. Of course there are pit fiends of different "power levels" and some might conceivably be in middle management, but as a rule, they're for all purposes and effects the second tier in hell, other than the nine Lords.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Glemp » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:45 am

Hjerne wrote:I don't think the serpent becoming the prey is about our Kin. It's very Thuntian to mislead us like that.


But also remember that MM was (I think) our first guess for the "Remember me?" line, then we guessed Goblin Slayer, then after Dies Horribly's arm went nuts we guessed it was that, only for it to have been out first guess all along.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby ForgetsHisUID » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:15 pm

I actually think 'Dies Horribly' fits him quite well, as a name.

I mean, he's actually REALLY BAD at dying. Horrible, even.

He failed to die of blood loss when he lost his arm. He failed to get killed by the xenophobic White Goblins. He failed to get eaten by a bad-tempered lizardfolk, and THEY WERE CHAINED TOGETHER! He failed to die from falling off of a cliff! He couldn't die from facing a fricking Finger Horror!! He even failed to die when HIS OWN ARM turned traitor on him! AND, even when he FINALLY MANAGES TO DIE, IT DOESN'T STICK!!!

Anybody else could have pulled off AT LEAST ONE DEATH, having gone through so much. But not Dies Horribly.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Syonique » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:06 am

Personally, I think the 'serpent's prey' has to do with Minmax romantically pursuing Kin. Possibility: The voice speaking through Fumbles (white text, black background) is literally that - the voice of a past Teller speaking, not Fumbles himself speaking, so the pronouns are chosen from the voice's perspective as it talks to Fumbles. Of course, we may never know for certain until Thunt gives us a clear 100% confirmation on what exactly it means (maybe even in next comic?), but that's my vote so far.

Also think the third panel speech bubbles ("The mount" through "the name is not right") are referring to the past events in the Maze and the necklace. Again, we will see.

Some other points to consider:
- as was pointed out earlier, "mount" has multiple meanings. It could refer to steed, or a mountain, or a setting of some sort (for example, a pedestal, a bejeweled locket, an ornamented scabbard, or a head mounted on a wall)... it could also be used as a verb (in fact, there are a LOT more verb definitions than noun definitions for that particular word!). So it could refer to, say, someone jumping onto a horse or other steed backwards (not that there's anything intrinsically wrong or backwards about the steed itself, just in how someone got on it).

- "cries" similarly has multiple meanings. While it could indeed indicate tearful sorrow, it could also indicate a shout of some sort - a warning, a warcry, etc.

- "the shining forest is found only through heroism the dwarf cries no more" could be broken up into "The shining forest is found only. Through heroism, the dwarf cries no more." So it could be a reference to, say, Kore getting redeemed or slain/released through an act of heroism - not necessarily his own. Others have already pointed this out. The new possibility this text breakpoint would indicate is that the shining forest is *only found* (which would imply that there's something else that is not done - for example, the forest is not entered or explored? "We came all this way and we're not even going to gather firewood?"). Personally thinking it's more likely "The shining forest is found only through heroism. The dwarf cries no more." but as always, we'll see.

Looking forward to finding out, regardless of what it turns out to be :)
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby WearsHats » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:16 am

rwstyles wrote:
Orzahn wrote:HE'S ALIVE, STIL ALIVE, YAY!
So who among you think, like me, that verything Fumbles just rambled needs to be remembered and will show up again? I mean, Thunt is a master of foreshadowing, and it's even in the dialogue.


Barring some sort of proof, I have some doubt about whether or not the bit with the thumbs was intended to be a "chekhov's gun". It was a good one, but he surely did not expect to use it that many years ago.

And at least one of them is "post shadowing".


Thunt wrote the entire story before page 1 was posted. There have been setups that took a decade to bear fruit.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Krulle » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:54 am

ForgetsHisUID wrote:I actually think 'Dies Horribly' fits him quite well, as a name.

I mean, he's actually REALLY BAD at dying. Horrible, even.

[examples from the comic of Diesnot dying]

Anybody else could have pulled off AT LEAST ONE DEATH, having gone through so much. But not Dies Horribly.
Yes, this has been suggested often, also by me. But no, Thunt himself said, that this is not the reason for the name "Dies Horribly". At least I've been told so when I first joined the comic forums by those who've been present much longer.
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby ForgetsOldName » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:52 am

I just had an interesting thought. Until now the only teller to have contact with Forgath and Minmax was Young and Beautiful, and she made two prophecies only.--and she made them both when Forgath touched her. So does that mean that none of the other older prophecies can apply to them?

Another angle on it is that most of the tellers died before the GAP was born, but they did have contact with the clan. So does that limit who the prophecies could be talking about?
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Re: 07-08-2017 Foreshadowing Overload.

Postby Tombworld » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:47 pm

ForgetsOldName wrote:Another angle on it is that most of the tellers died before the GAP was born, but they did have contact with the clan. So does that limit who the prophecies could be talking about?


That's probably the case. I do tend to think that a teller whose prophecies must not only be cryptic to interpret, but also may not apply to those in the teller's clan and slightly wider 'contact list' (for lack of a better term) would be quite useless. "A Brassmoon City resident will bake no more. John has a long moustache. The chair is against the wall." Oh...kay.
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