March 27, 2015: Balls To The Wall

[Krulle]

Bowst and Idle fully shaded

► Show Spoiler

Bowst and Idle, fully shaded. For those who've been asking... Yes, she has 4 ears. 2 of them rabbit ears. [imglink removed] #Goblins

[willpell]

I don't see why talking about a character's breasts are important. There is essentially never discussion like that surrounding male characters and what's in their pants.... so why is this considered good conversation?

Breasts =/= genitals. We don't discuss the genitals of either gender, because they are kept well out of sight; female breasts are discussed because they are an extremely obvious outward feature which is secondarily sexual, but also aesthetic and just generally noticeable. The closest male equivalent would be beards/mustaches, and those definitely get discussed, particularly if they're unusual in presentation. (Obviously they are somewhat less sexually esteemed than breasts, due to socialization, and also their owners have somewhat more control over what shape they take, so it's not an exact parallel by any stretch, but I think it's a closer one than either gender's junk.)

[nikohl]

She said drop it, dude. Let's do that.

[willpell]

She said drop it, dude. Let's do that.

It was a "recommendation", which I do not agree with. She was (thankfully) not speaking in her capacity as moderator to say "this is inappropriate description", but rather saying "I don't get why people seem to think this is appropriate discussion". I was providing an argument in favor of my belief that it is; I have that right, so long as I remain respectful in tone. (Having difficulty in doing so, I do plan to err on the side of caution in my statements, but I refuse to just not say anything, when I have something that deserves to be said, and there is no real reason why I should not be able to say it. I have not come even close to crossing any kind of a line as yet, despite how easy it would be for me to do so.)

[nikohl]

I'm not saying don't have an opinion... I'm saying pay attention to the moderator notice (which WAS said with mod hat on) before things get taken further. You know the rules the same as I do; your constant pushing won't go unnoticed, and I personally don't think choosing female body parts as an area upon which to exert your right to voice a public opinion against mod advice is a wise decision, but hey. Your choice.

[JaceDraccus]

Idle's eyes don't seem to be willowed to me, I think it's just the way they're shaded. Willowing fills the eye, and Forgath's eyes actually look the same as Idle's, just not blue.

The white skin and face lines do seem kinda Viperish, whereas the rabbity features (nose/ears), I dunno. Although on looking back briefly, haven't checked all the Viper comics, but so far only Duv has anything at all on her face, and it doesn't look like that...

Personally I think these are the reincarnated Baka and Tuck. Bowst is a big warrior type, similar to Baka, and from memory Baka wasn't too good with rules minutiae (except for weapons). Idle kinda seems like something Tuck would do, something a little quirky and different. And short.

Neither one seems quite in Yodette's style...

[willpell]

I'm saying pay attention to the moderator notice (which WAS said with mod hat on)

Incorrect. The Infobox is specifically designated as NOT official mod pronouncement; those have a big red exclamation mark next to them. As I understand it, infobox is for significantly lower-priority notices that come from a mod, but not in their role as a mod; this distinct tag exists specifically for the purpose of making it clear when the speaker is not asserting authority, despite having the ability to do so.

[nikohl]

Infobox is only available to mods, therefore it's a mod pronouncement whether you choose to accept it as a "serious" one or not.

[lingrem]

[mod="lingrem"]The Infobox is meant to be a more mild warning. Is this better for you willpell? Idle's breasts are NOT AN APPROPRIATE TOPIC TO DISCUSS. nikohl was trying to help you. You complain when we are harsh, and when I am being more gentle you choose to ignore me. Here is your in-thread warning to stop.[/mod]

[willpell]

Is this better for you willpell?

Yes, that is what I require of you. If you're going to bring the jack-boots down on my neck, don't insult me by pretending that they're bunny slippers. There's no point in you being friendly, since you are clearly not my friend.

[nikohl]

Are you shitting me? She asks you nicely and you ignore her; she tells you straight and suddenly it's "wah wah jack boots"?

Grow up.

[Raza]

Ooh, I like the sluttily dressed half-goblin.

They resemble the reincarnating adventurer goofs in general style, but there'd be one missing, and it's not obvious how the barbarian would've gotten a magic sword at such short notice. Also, that pipe and ring look magical, too.


ETA, re:preceding discussion - How about we just do discuss any body part that piques our interest? Genitals exist, y'know, and people naturally find them interesting. This ridiculous cultural habit of keeping them awkwardly out of sight, sound, and conversation despite the fact that there isn't a speck of evil about them is in dire need of forgetting.

[nikohl]

It's possible that the third member of the party is the one who called Forgath a bearded noisemaker, since it doesn't fit the apparent speaking style of these two here - if it is those three. Even if it isn't those three, there might be a third person anyway.

And can we not use slutty as a pejorative? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth :/ For all we know, Idle is like... 12. Or agender. Or some other thing that makes "woo naked chick woo" almost as lame as the previous disapproved discussion of the shape of her chest.

Scant clothing is scant clothing, nothing more. Bowst isn't wearing much either, nor is Forgath. Maybe it's hot where they are. ¬_¬

(edited to add, in response to your edit: I personally have no problem with discussing body parts, I have a problem with objectifying said body parts, aaaaaaand a moderator said to stop so we're gonna.)

[Davis8488]

The very first thing we hear them do is breaking character. Also: Names.

It's not really a large break in character when even NPCs discuss game mechanics.
Guards at the sewer grate.

Edit to add: Did anyone else notice that Bowst's buckles (for his belt and chest armor) resemble a "power on/off" button?

[SUGauthor]

I seriously doubt these guys are the reincarnated adventurers, for a lot of reasons. For starters they would have recognized Forgath right away, and they've never been good at keeping character before so I'd doubt they'd start now (for those who point out that they supposedly broke the fourth wall by arguing about spot checks I point out Names and Ears had a very similar conversation once while crossing a river). Secondly, Chief died at max, like 10 minutes ago, I don't know when these storylines are happening in relation to each other, but I really doubt that this comic happened within 10 minutes of Chief dying, which means there's a good chance Junior straight up hasn't left Dies's body yet and those adventurers are still alive at the moment. Third, the adventurers death against Junior felt rather final, the first time they died they were cracking jokes until they croaked, but Junior was scary, they were scared, that death scene was much more powerful and bringing them back a third time would invalidate that scene somewhat. Finally, and I think this is most important, if these two are about to become new main characters, then they need to be somewhat likable. The adventurers were kind of funny at first but their novelty quickly ran out, I don't think very many people would want a main character that constantly reminds you this epic story is just a bunch of kids hanging around a table one off Saturday night every time you look at them, and beyond that they were kind of assholes anyways.

As for the supposed "missing third member" I'm pretty sure Idle and Bowst are meant to be a duo. I think the answer is right in front of our faces, and also on Forgath's face. Kliks aren't capable of talking but when one is directly attached to someone maybe they can shoot their thoughts at them, and "bearded noisemaker" certainly sounds like vernacular a Klik would use. I think that makes a whole lot more sense than an invisible third party member.

[Ciaran]

Yay, just what we need: yet another group to follow. Where are our goblins?

[RocketScientist]

Is this better for you willpell?

Yes, that is what I require of you. If you're going to bring the jack-boots down on my neck, don't insult me by pretending that they're bunny slippers. There's no point in you being friendly, since you are clearly not my friend.

[mod="RocketScientist"]What you just did there? The snarking back at a moderator? Don't. For that matter, snarking back at anyone is rude, so on everyone's else's behalf, also don't. The blue info box is there to give you information without counting it against you as an official warning. It's not there for you to dismiss it out of hand according to your whims. But as you apparently demand your information in the form of an official warning, so noted. Three get you a temp ban. You now have two.[/mod]

ETA, re:preceding discussion - How about we just do discuss any body part that piques our interest?

[mod="RocketScientist"]No. The previous ruling was not up for a vote.[/mod]

[Hjerne]

Well if boobs and other body parts are off limits then we should certainly remove the link to the comic that spends half the page talking about Bowsts balls. Not to mention all of the posts in this thread that make reference to the same thing.

[RocketScientist]

[mod="RocketScientist"]Now would be a really good time to stop arguing, and DROP THE SUBJECT. Final in-thread warning. You can talk about the comic. You can talk about the jokes. You can't denigrate an entire group of people (e.g. trans people). If you honestly can't figure out what would be appropriate, and what would not, then feel free to message admin for clarification. You may also refer to the forum rules. In this case, I suggest rules 3 & 4. This subject is closed.[/mod]

[Dagazzard]

....So the pigtails ARE ears!
Now I'm wondering if Idle is that wizard that made all those fusions (Saral caine, K'sellis) and started by experimenting on herself.

[willpell]

What you just did there? The snarking back at a moderator? Don't.

It was not "snarking". It was an accurate observation of the mod team's behavior, which you apparently do not realize is more "inappropriate" than anything I have EVER said, including at the absolute height of my reign of terror in Controversy. You have gone mad with power and become completely corrupt, and if I had even the slightest power to do so, I would take you all down like Batman or the Punisher taking down a bunch of other so-called "superheroes", who had violated their own ethics for hypocritical reasons. Your behavior in this matter is beyond disgraceful; if you want to ban me for calling you out on it, I would be no more surprised than I would at a mob capo shooting at the cops who've come to arrest him. (It's rather an apt parallel, given that organized criminals are "the law" in their own "privately owned" domain, just as you are empowered to appoint yourselves unchallengeable enforcers of right and wrong on this forum, just because it's supposedly your "property". The lack of an official governing body which protects genuine justice on the Internet does not excuse your tyrannical self-appointment to the task.)

Do whatever you think you have to do; it won't be the first or the last time that my enemies have factually held the upper hand, and forced me to go down in a metaphorical hail of gunfire for what I believed was right. As long as there's breath in my body or an account linked to my username, I will stop at NOTHING to oppose all forms of authoritarian abuse, most especially those done in the passive-aggressive name of "protecting the vulnerable". (To be more specific, if Nikohl was offended by all the breast-talk, it was her responsibility to suck it up and behave like an adult, instead of running and whining to you so that her "tormentors" could be silenced. Your extreme eagerness to accede to her wishes in this regard just proves that you've been looking for an excuse, to crack down on those you feel justified in pushing around.) In real life, I will not be silenced by anything less than a bullet through my brain; here, you have better technology for preventing me from having my say. Use it if you wish, I can't stop you. But you will be factually in the moral wrong, and I will spend the rest of my life burning with the desire to avenge myself against you for it. I have an extremely long "hit list" of those who have committed such offenses against me, and I've had no luck whatsoever in exacting my retribution against any of them; from a realpolitik viewpoint, you're safe enough, so swing that ban-hammer that's throbbing and pulsing with desire in your hand. It's the only way your unearned sovereignty will ever be safe against me.

[SeeAMoose]

[mod="SeeAMoose"]In regards to Willpell. On numerous occasions he has crossed the line, broken forum rules, been disrespectful towards the moderation team (particularly the female mods), and he has been warned that if he continued this behavior we would ban him permanently. Over the past day he ignored multiple warnings and has demonstrated that he has no respect for the rules of this community or its members and that he has no intention of changing. Unfortunately this means that he has become our first non-spam related permaban.

I am sorry this has become such a public spectacle, please do not let this topic derail the discussion any further.[/mod]

[Sessine]

What you just did there? The snarking back at a moderator? Don't.

[ ill-advised rant ]

@willpell: Speaking as someone who moderates elsewhere, and also as someone who has valued your often-perceptive comments about the Goblins comic, I am rather sorry you did that. RocketScientist was not being authoritarian, she was doing her job to keep these pages civil. I suppose this will now be goodbye.

For future reference as you rove other sites on the internet: When you post on a privately owned website, you are not in a public square. You are a guest in the owner's home. The owner gets to set the ground rules. If your host, or someone appointed by your host (i.e., a moderator), asks you to keep your voice down, or change the subject... they're not infringing your rights. You don't have rights to behave however you like in someone else's home; you only have privileges granted by the host, and those can be withdrawn. A moderator has both the right, and the duty, to tell you when you are spoiling the mood of the party.

The proper, mature-adult response when gently nudged in such a manner is to say, "Oops, sorry 'bout that," and then stop doing whatever it was they asked you to stop doing.

But, of course, there are always guests who have not understood that they are guests, and then out comes the melodramatic last-stand rhetoric. The moderator sighs patiently, gives the guest many, many chances to avoid the collision, and then, resignedly, clicks through the ban routine.

That's how it really works.

Edited: Sorry, SeeAMoose... I'll was writing this before you posted. I will delete the content if you like, and in any case I will not pursue the discussion.

[SUGauthor]

....So the pigtails ARE ears!
Now I'm wondering if Idle is that wizard that made all those fusions (Saral caine, K'sellis) and started by experimenting on herself.

If she is it would be a hell of a foreshadow, that wizard was mentioned like 9 years ago, but it does explain her non goblin features pretty well, and I really don't think there is any other race she could possibly be.

[SeeAMoose]

....So the pigtails ARE ears!
Now I'm wondering if Idle is that wizard that made all those fusions (Saral caine, K'sellis) and started by experimenting on herself.

If she is it would be a hell of a foreshadow, that wizard was mentioned like 9 years ago, but it does explain her non goblin features pretty well, and I really don't think there is any other race she could possibly be.

First, I think it's pretty safe to say that Idle is some kind of Goblin given that we now know she has actual bunny ears. Second, Bunny + Goblin = oddly adorable. Just has to be said. Third, on the foreshadowing part, it isn't that much of a stretch. The key thing to remember is that Thunt wrote the entire story 9 years ago, we're just seeing it now.