Well, shit... (G:AR Kickstarter)

[Reads_Books]

I noticed that in my mailbox too. I thought the "your pledge will not be affected" part was interesting. Oh really?

[WearsHats]

Huh. Well, it's a start.

But I don't see how they'd be able to affect my pledge, as the money was paid out long ago.

[spiderwrangler]

Exactly. Your pledge won't be affected, cause you're not getting it back.

[WearsHats]

Right.

I don't see what possible IP dispute there could be, though. My understanding is that the contract stated that if Evertide failed to deliver by Jan 1, 2015, the rights would go to Thunt. They can't possibly argue that they delivered. So what is there to dispute?

[KaintukeeBob]

The e-mail looks like a form response to me, one that they set up ages ago to send out when a copyright notice was given. They got the takedown request, acted on it, and sent out the e-mail to all backers. All of that could have been automated to a single button click, and doesn't necessarily indicate any stance on KS's part.

[nikohl]

I agree; it looks like an automated "in case of IP dispute, send X" form. Perhaps Thunt will elaborate when he's next got a moment to do a G:AR Update.

[wyrmbear]

I especially like the "you can still message the creator" part...

[capn_ed]

That was sort of the nuclear option, as everything related to G:AR on Kickstarter is now unavailable, including the comments page, where people are still occasionally posting messages.

[mustache_man]

It┬┤s almost certainly an automated response. I wouldn't read much into it for now.

[Sessine]

I think it's progress. Thunt wanted Kickstarter to take the project page down because it was directing people to the Evertide web site -- which is still, fraudulently, sitting out there on the web accepting money for a product that will never exist.

Now no new victims will be sent there by the KS page. That's not much, but it's something.

[Glemp]

I think it's progress. Thunt wanted Kickstarter to take the project page down because it was directing people to the Evertide web site -- which is still, fraudulently, sitting out there on the web accepting money for a product that will never exist.

Now no new victims will be sent there by the KS page. That's not much, but it's something.

But...why would there be any in the first place? KS isn't somewhere you go to find projects that have been funded, at least as far as I know - the page is more of an archive now. I know, getting anything out of KS is a victory, I'll just surprised if this changes much.

[stevedj]

My thoughts are that this is a result of THunt's pleas to KS to gain control of the page... basically THunt is now disputing the rights of Evertide to have such a KS page...???

So, perhaps the progress that is starting here is, that eventually THunt will be given control of the page (i.e. the password, etc...)?

[spiderwrangler]

As was mentioned, this is probably an autogenerated form letter, but in this case, Thunt would be perceived as the outside party bringing suit against the creator (Evertide).

[Nerre]

I agree with spider.
I think they rather would take it down to avoid further damage in case the guy who claims it is his comic is right, cause they could be blamed for each ripped of user of KS after Thunt told them what is going on. Or maybe they finally made the effort to doublecheck who owns the domain or read the impressum. But I still doubt they will give controll to him. Had to do a lot with huge companies in 2007-2014, would really wonder if they do. Normally they just sit it out and ignore you. I think the best Thunt can hope for is that they will turn it into a dead link, so only they, him, us and the affected people will learn what happend (if it is not already in some google search engine memory) know what happened. And that they maybe will allow him to make another KS project, although I highly doubt he is up to using their platform after this.
Never let anybody create the KS project for YOUR baby in your name - or worse - not in your name.

[stevedj]

I think the best Thunt can hope for is that they will turn it into a dead link, so only they, him, us and the affected people will learn what happend (if it is not already in some google search engine memory)

You mean, like this?

[Nerre]

Yep, exactly. Thanks, doctor.

[Aegis J Hyena]

I posted to my Twitter that maybe Thunt would have better luck messaging and hooking up with someone Kickstarter (I would f**king hope) knows not to piss off. Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary is a -big- name and has had a couple of HIGH PAYING kickstarters in the past. A few unkind words from him and I think they'd get their things in order and help Thunt out.

[Sessine]

Once anything has been on the internet it never truly goes away. (Okay, in rare cases which are not this one, by sheer malicious chance, something does fall through ALL the cracks and disappear, but never never ever the items you would like to have vanish without a trace!) The Kickstarter page being taken down is a small step towards making the Evertide site more obscure. That's all. Thunt was angry with KS for refusing to take it down, and now it's down. One tiny step forward.

You guys are right -- KS sent out a form-letter email, pretty obviously triggered by Thunt's lawyer contacting them with a demand for a take-down on intellectual property grounds. It doesn't recognize any of the particulars of this case. This wording is their routine generic response every time they receive such a take-down demand. I hope Thunt will be able to calm down once he talks with his lawyer again, who will tell him this is normal.

[nikohl]

I posted to my Twitter that maybe Thunt would have better luck messaging and hooking up with someone Kickstarter (I would f**king hope) knows not to piss off. Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary is a -big- name and has had a couple of HIGH PAYING kickstarters in the past. A few unkind words from him and I think they'd get their things in order and help Thunt out.

I think that's a relatively naïve view and an ultimately unhelpful thing to tweet publicly. Veiled threats of "I'm gonna sicc my buddy on you and then you'll be sorry" won't get far. Howard Tayler is still just a guy; KS are a company who are bound by data protection laws. No amount of 'unkind words' from 'important people' will encourage them to break the law.

That is where their issues lie - they're not just being unhelpful dicks about it, they're avoiding setting a precedent where someone (Thunt) asks for a list of backers for a good reason (fulfilling promises some other guy reneged on, with his name all over it) and they hand it over...thereby opening the floodgates for tons of requests that they have to consider because "you did it for that guy" and/or the backlash of "so, you just went ahead and gave out all that private personal information, huh?"

[WearsHats]

Thunt seems less than happy with this development.

[ChuckDaRighteous]

I think the message sent out was a generic blanket message. Its not something they put any thought into now, just something the have on file for the situation, copy, paste, send. So I don't think it was them being dicks and not listening to Thunt or not looking at the proof that this guy stole our money and ran. They just auto sent a generic message. Its probably linked to them taking down the page. Someone probably marked the page as "intellectual property dispute" and the message was probably sent automatically when that happened. So I do think this is progress more than Thunt realizes. It means the recognize that Thunt does have claims to the property. Its probably the first step in getting control of the page, and thereby a backer list and donation amount.

[WurmD]

Heya all,

I've seen some CREDO petitions have successful effect on companies, so, since we kinda like kickstarter, and are hating what they are doing in the G:AR case, let's petition them to change their policy to avoid similar situations in the future.

Now, it's nice to have an engaging petition text and image before we launch it. So I'm asking for help to have the community creating this text (ideally Tarol would be a major contributor)

We have to fill these text-boxes, and at the moment this is what I have:

Petition title : Kickstarter: Change your Policy to Avoid Fraud Now!

Whom are you petitioning? Kickstarter company

What do you want them to do? *
Change their policy in a way to allow them more legal freedom to shut kickstarter pages down that have indication of being fraud.

Why is this important? *
Kickstarter provides a wonderful service to us all in this peer-to-peer, direct engagement society. We would like kickstarter to continue their good service, and increase peopleÔÇÖs confidence to use the platform to fund their dream projects.
But, KickstarterÔÇÖs actions in the G:AR case are unacceptable. When a project clearly has been a fraud, and continues to scam kickstarter users by links in their kickstarter project pages, Kickstarter should have the legal freedom to quickly act and put a stop to it.

I've created a google docs to allow direct online collaboration on this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aDT ... l1P_4/edit

[BadgeAddict]

However...my fear would be if, KS tries to force Thunt to deliver what was promised to the people who expect something because they paid money.

[nikohl]

They can't and won't do that, Badge, simply because he has no actual involvement. KS can't have it both ways: either he's not involved and they can't hold him responsible, or he is involved and he is responsible - at which point they can release the backer list to him, which is one of the things he has been asking after so he can effectively communicate his plan of action to the people that Evertide ripped off using the Goblins name.

Since they will not release the list to him, citing "not involved with the KS" as their main reason, they can't then turn around and force him to do anything at all. The two things are mutually exclusive.

[mustache_man]

They will never even try to force him into making the game and/or giving back the money. First, because as fas KS is concerned Evertide is the project creator and second because KS does not guarantee delivery even when the funds are successfuly raised.

Also, I will point out that even if whoever in KS is reading the emails from Thunt believes every word of it, they will not risk breaching any contract made with Evertide or their own rules for anything less than a court order. Thunt s contract with Evertide is of no concern to KS. Of course, I could be entirely wrong in my assumptions, but I dont

PS: Cant use apostrophes in this ridiculous linux computer.