Please Say this is a Joke

[ForgetsOldName]

1h Thunt Thunt ÔÇÅ@Thunt_Goblins

Danielle is making changes to Goblins. Removing phrases that aren't in the open licence agreement. This is depressing.
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Thunt ÔÇÅ@Thunt_Goblins

Yuan-ti, Maglubiyet, Dungeon Master... even Player's Handbook (and more). It's all got to be taken out of the comic.
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Thunt ÔÇÅ@Thunt_Goblins

No one has smacked us with a cease & desist, but Rusty & Co. was recently hit with one and I don't want to have to deal with that.
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Fair use in parody?

[BuildsLegos]

Funny as it may be, Goblins has too much tragedy too be a parody. They really do need to do this.

[Rorrik]

They need to cover their bases. Player's Handbook seems like a bit of a stretch, but the others are copyrighted property. It just means he's getting to popular to fly under the radar.

[SccrD25]

Ok stuff like mags and yuan-ti I can see, its the stuff you need to buy the books to learn and they need their money.

But DM and Players Handbook? Arnt those just part of the lexicon now?

Also, I personally have gotten 3 different people to start playing D&D by showing them Goblins. Two still do regularly. Goblins is good advertising about what a great D&D game can go like.

[Mereneth]

I don't see how a comic could do anything but encourage dnd purchases.

[Aegis J Hyena]

After a day away from the internet, I just saw this on my twitter feed. I REALLY hope he's trolling us. I can understand why it needs to be done if it HAS to be done, but I really really hope he is trolling us...

[BuildsLegos]

Thunt's trolls never involve such big yet plausible stakes. And Sccr, I know what you mean; I added the 3.5 Editions to my Amazon wishlist. But they just can't afford hoping for Wizards of the Coast to be understanding.

[Aegis J Hyena]

It occured to me that since he hasn't had a C&D yet, he could make "emergency copies" of all the pages with "adjusted dialogue". Then continue working the comic as intended. If he gets C&D'd he can instantly shift. This way he can do the comic the way he wants to until he truly IS C&D'd (which I think would be a total disaster... but if he were popular enough to warrant a C&D, wouldn't they already have done it by now?)

[Kalontas]

I'm surprised Wizards would still have the courage to enforce "copyright" on Yuan-Ti. Claiming that as product identity is just plainly an outrage. They're just straight up Naga from Indian mythology - and yes, they included everything from "slightly odd human" to "snake from waist down" to "full on snake with human intellect" in the same canon. There's absolutely nothing original in Yuan-Ti, apart from their name and names of gods they worship in specific settings.

If Wizards can claim copyright on a mythological creature by inventing a weird name for it, can I claim copyright on all Satyrs by calling them "kesplark"?

[GriffinDWolf]

seriously first Games-Workshop "claiming" legal digital rights to the term space marine, a cease & desist for Rusty & Co., whats next all words staring with i are pre-existing property of apple?

I'm sick of all the freaking patent wars, from words, to software code, to seeds, no wonder its getting so freaking depressing and expensive to live in this world we have to pay for each companies' legal departments to piss at each other and on their own customers.

[BiggusGeekus]

seriously first Games-Workshop "claiming" legal digital rights to the term space marine, a cease & desist for Rusty & Co., whats next all words staring with i are pre-existing property of apple?

I'm sick of all the freaking patent wars, from words, to software code, to seeds, no wonder its getting so freaking depressing and expensive to live in this world we have to pay for each companies' legal departments to piss at each other and on their own customers.

But the D&D community can use a lot of this material as long as they abide by the SRD. If something is given away for free with a few conditions and those conditions aren't met, then it's reasonable to get irked about it.

Look at it this way, the same laws prevent people from downloading Thunt's work and selling it themselves or from selling T-shirts with the Goblins characters.

[TinSoldier]

BTW, it wouldn't be copyright, but rather trademark.

You can't copyright a word or phrase or term, but you can trademark it.

[GriffinDWolf]

I do agree, the idea of the patent is a good thing, never said I didn't. It was originally set up for protection of intellectual property, the thing that irks me is when it is taken too far. I guess I'm more upset lately about the patent wars because of following the Games-Workshop vs 'Spots The Space Marine' closely. And I'm still pissed the US Supreme court held up Monsanto Seed Patent, an evil company on par with Koch. Besides when it comes to books, webcomics and the such, especially ones like Goblins or any on blind ferret, it would be counter productive to take actions against the comic because they tend to generate positive media for gaming in general.

Still I don't blame Tarol for not wanting to have to deal with something like that, legal issues can be a load of crap if you can't afford the system. Doesn't mean I think a preemptive cleansing is a good idea, but I understand why.

Yeah thanks TinSoldier, I did forgot that little distinction between copyright and trademark but it is is still of the similar legal tender.
besides I rarely think clearly on that kind of distinction this late and on an empty stomach

[Alarikun]

Please say this is a joke. He hasn't made an announcement besides Twitter... but this is all kinds of screwed up. I don't want him to have to take the "D&D" out of Goblins! Please!

[ChroniclerC]

Sorry, my fault guys. I'm the one (or one of) who alerted him to the nightmare that Rusty & Co. had. What with the upcoming card game potentially making money, since it seems to be merch that sets off Hasbro's/WotC's lawyers. I just didn't want to see Goblins go through the same BS.

[TinSoldier]

I only explain it because the rules are different for each kind of thing.

While I am not a lawyer, so-called "intellectual property" and "fair use" are interests of mine. And all of it can be abused no matter which side you are on. It seems to me to be one of the most gray areas of law to try and find a safe way through the minefield.

Which is what makes it interesting, I suppose.

[TinSoldier]

Sorry, my fault guys. I'm the one (or one of) who alerted him to the nightmare that Rusty & Co. had. What with the upcoming card game potentially making money, since it seems to be merch that sets off Hasbro's/WotC's lawyers. I just didn't want to see Goblins go through the same BS.

It's nothing to be sorry about if you are saving Thunt some bad headaches in the future.

[ThroughTheWell]

ECR is a lawyer. Of course there are diffent kinds of law, and I don't know his specialty.

[RocketScientist]

I can see yuan-ti and Maglubiyet being a problem. I don't know why they'd care unless he was selling or posting their stats, but I could see WotC making a stink about it just to prove they can. But Dungeon Master? Player's Handbook? Really? I wouldn't try to sell a rulebook calling it that, but... Wouldn't it make more sense to explain the problem to Wizards and ask permission to use the terms? Or for someone else to ask in general about use of terms in works of fiction?

[ChroniclerC]

I can see yuan-ti and Maglubiyet being a problem. I don't know why they'd care unless he was selling or posting their stats, but I could see WotC making a stink about it just to prove they can. But Dungeon Master? Player's Handbook? Really? I wouldn't try to sell a rulebook calling it that, but... Wouldn't it make more sense to explain the problem to Wizards and ask permission to use the terms? Or for someone else to ask in general about use of terms in works of fiction?

The "to prove they can" part is actually kind of an important reason. I don't know much of the legal minutia, but I'm given to understand that part of IP law requires you to actively defend your copyrights, trademarks, and patents, elsewise you could lose them.

In any case, it might be a good idea for Thunt to get advice from other D&D-esque comics. I hear that Rich Burlew (of Order of the Stick) has good thoughts; makes sense since he's worked with WotC in the past.

[RocketScientist]

Yes, it does for trademark. Copyright doesn't dilute like that. I don't know about patent laws.

[Rhemora]

DM would be open source I would think since people dm warhammer, they dm iron kingdoms, they dm every other tabletop roleplay, as for yuan ti that is a dnd created species so maybe changing it to naga or something would work since they are found in Hindu and Buddhist religion so they would not be able to say they are copywritten. Also a female n─üga is a n─üg─½ or n─ügin─½ which I think sounds kinda cool.

[Blackbot]

No, they do not. They GM those games. People GM Pathfinder, they GM Shadowrun, they GM pretty much everything *but* games directly from WotC, cause DM is their trademark.

[GriffinDWolf]

No, they do not. They GM those games. People GM Pathfinder, they GM Shadowrun, they GM pretty much everything *but* games directly from WotC, cause DM is their trademark.

that would be correct GM is the open source term and DM is for D&D only

[askstoomuch]

I wouldn't even know dnd excised if it wasn't for goblins this is non-sense