April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Rorrik » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:20 am

Mithcoriel wrote: First Forgath's mace destroyed so they can't fight back, the keys destroyed so they can't win, and now Kin badly injured.
I still think the right key is already in the door, so splishing the keys doesn't actually stop them from winning.

This is terrible and all, but Thunt is a hopeless romantic, right? The trueseeing happened. I wouldn't be surprised if Minmax flew into a super rage and jumped through the ceiling to come to the rescue. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Thunt killed all of them. Do we have any real reason to believe the counter has been destroyed so on reset they can remember the true seeing and Psimax? I guess Minmax could sprint back down there and destroy it, but how would he know to? Through his connection with Kin? Would Kin know that? Will Psimax mention it?

That's my new favorite theory. Psimax mentions destroying the counter, Minmax hears through Kin, Minmax sprints to the counter and destroys it.

EDIT: I didn't think of an oblivion hole destroying it. I like that idea. Would Minmax still get to keep his cool equipment if they reset? If not, bummer.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by stevedj » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:12 am

WhichWayDidHeGo wrote:To preserve my sanity and peace of mind, Goblins will now be moved to my "Comics to Check Every Six Months" file. Not an insult to Thunt, said file includes Lackadaisy.


Actually, that's two files labelled "January 1" and "July 1". See y'all then.


:'( :x :paranoia:
What good is it to only stop by once every 6 months? Suppose this strip had been posted on June 30... you'd still have the same problem. :(

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:27 am

WearsHats wrote:2. The prophecy: "When the serpent becomes your prey..." Minmax will now be hunting for Kin. Trying to find her and a way to get to her. Is that enough to count as "prey"? Probably not. But the "love will fuel hate" seems clear enough to me right now. His love for Kin will fuel his hatred for Psimax.
Except Minmax isn't Forgath. ;)
3. So what's the deal with this "truesight" thing people keep mentioning? When/how did Minmax get it?
Yuanti thing mentioned a while back. Just now.
WearsHats wrote:Yeah. The smoke seems to indicate that Psimax has to destroy the counter every time the maze resets. Certainly, stuff will get destroyed, damaged, broken, etc. in every run. If that didn't reset, the maze would never survive millions of runs.
Unless it is still smoking because it just happened following a reset.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by stevedj » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:37 am

WastesTime wrote:
Darkpool wrote: Oblivion holes are a random factor. If the oblivion holes don't reopen again, or open in different places -- because Psimax is doing things differently -- they'd need to climb the tower instead of shortcutting to the end. That means we spend maybe five or six pages getting to a "new maze" (let's see ... one page in the counter room, one in the confusion room, one in the giant room, on the fourth page they open the chest to collect the armor and magic sword before the Ringworld team gets anywhere close, the fifth page they rush through the upside down trees and into the healing potion river where they load up on all the potion they can carry, and at page six they're in the hallway long before any zombies show up). Then -- if there are no oblivion portals -- they'll need to find the tower room. But they'll have a long head start and lots of healing potion.
Or Thunt may simply kill Kin and make us cry, while letting heartbroken and scarred for life duo of Fogath and Minmax exit the Maze and to further add to our grief, as someone pointed out before, he will make Minmax and Forgath forget Kin.
Perhaps consider this -- all this time with Kin has taught MinMax that not all monsters are bad, or just there for XP.

Way back in the first battle with the goblins, it was Forgath that was realizing that maybe the goblins weren't all bad, either. Now with MinMax feeling the same way, the eventual "reunion" with Names may have lost all of its tension...

...unless, Kin were lost in an oblivion hole. MinMax may likely 'forget' his good feelings towards monsters, thereby restoring his hatred towards Names???
Rorrik wrote:EDIT: I didn't think of an oblivion hole destroying it. I like that idea. Would Minmax still get to keep his cool equipment if they reset? If not, bummer.
Given that only MinMax can affect the Oblivion sword, I would think that not even the Maze and all its powers of "reset" could touch/affect it. So if there is a maze reset, or if they still manage to win/exit the maze, the key is -- MinMax has to remember that it exists for him to reach for and grab it.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:47 am

Quick theory - Minmax forgets about Kin, but the next time he tries to grab a sword he picks up Oblivious and sees himself and Kin. Then...nothing happens. He has a free sword, he's gained a few levels, and he can tease Forgath about that new haircut.

Or, hang on. What happens if he uses the Jade Teapot to escape instead of the Winner's Circle? Then he's technically still in the race, but he's outside of the Maze so the Oblivion Holes don't affect him (Psimax said that he can only affect the Maze because only there is small enough to calculate all variables within a universe - different universe, different reality, different set of rules).

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by kadmus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:16 am

Longtime lurker here. Maybe someone has already adressed this before, but I see that you are talking about the keys' destruction. I think there is another key to open the treassure room, and maybe they still have it. http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ Isn't this key just exactly as the "key that winks"?

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by RedwoodElf » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:24 am

Here's an idea: Psimax kills both Kin and Forgath, but Minmax slaughters everything else, including psimax, in a fit of love-inspired rage.

Minmax then thinks a bit (hard for him, we know) and bypasses winning the maze by using the Jade Teapot to teleport to the GAP.

"Remember me, Names?"

He then helps the GAP to fight off Core, recruits them to enter the maze with him to force a reset, breaking the counter and having Vorpal act as a team by himself and exit the maze.

Thus, when the maze resets, the GAP winds up in there WITH FMK...all of them go after Psimax and to win the maze with the reset Kin and Forgath.

Minmax, having re-entered the maze, resets to the state he was in when he entered (head scarred, has Oblivious) and the GAP exits with them.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:43 am

kadmus wrote:Longtime lurker here. Maybe someone has already adressed this before, but I see that you are talking about the keys' destruction. I think there is another key to open the treassure room, and maybe they still have it. http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ Isn't this key just exactly as the "key that winks"?
That's been brought up a lot here. Personally, I don't believe it - there is no reason for the Maze' designer to put a spare key in an area that only one group goes past before they know that they need it and in a place that makes them forget every time they realise that they need it. Plus, we have that shadow under the door, which probably is the key - the winking key is there to trigger the tower moving up, or to trick groups into sealing themselves off.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 am

RedwoodElf wrote:Here's an idea: Psimax kills both Kin and Forgath, but Minmax slaughters everything else, including psimax, in a fit of love-inspired rage.

Minmax then thinks a bit (hard for him, we know) and bypasses winning the maze by using the Jade Teapot to teleport to the GAP.

"Remember me, Names?"

He then helps the GAP to fight off Core, recruits them to enter the maze with him to force a reset, breaking the counter and having Vorpal act as a team by himself and exit the maze.

Thus, when the maze resets, the GAP winds up in there WITH FMK...all of them go after Psimax and to win the maze with the reset Kin and Forgath.

Minmax, having re-entered the maze, resets to the state he was in when he entered (head scarred, has Oblivious) and the GAP exits with them.
Interesting, but I don't think that Kore can be stopped that easily. Slowed or escaped, maybe. Or persuaded that Psimax is a bigger threat. Also, this week must have been...difficult, what with Kin's tail exploding AND Tarvek getting stabbed at once.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by kadmus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:47 am

Glemp wrote:
kadmus wrote:Longtime lurker here. Maybe someone has already adressed this before, but I see that you are talking about the keys' destruction. I think there is another key to open the treassure room, and maybe they still have it. http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ Isn't this key just exactly as the "key that winks"?
That's been brought up a lot here. Personally, I don't believe it - there is no reason for the Maze' designer to put a spare key in an area that only one group goes past before they know that they need it and in a place that makes them forget every time they realise that they need it. Plus, we have that shadow under the door, which probably is the key - the winking key is there to trigger the tower moving up, or to trick groups into sealing themselves off.
Thank you for the reply, sorry for bringing this up again. So hard to keep up with you guys!

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 am

kadmus wrote:
Glemp wrote:
kadmus wrote:Longtime lurker here. Maybe someone has already adressed this before, but I see that you are talking about the keys' destruction. I think there is another key to open the treassure room, and maybe they still have it. http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ Isn't this key just exactly as the "key that winks"?
That's been brought up a lot here. Personally, I don't believe it - there is no reason for the Maze' designer to put a spare key in an area that only one group goes past before they know that they need it and in a place that makes them forget every time they realise that they need it. Plus, we have that shadow under the door, which probably is the key - the winking key is there to trigger the tower moving up, or to trick groups into sealing themselves off.
Thank you for the reply, sorry for bringing this up again. So hard to keep up with you guys!
Don't be - I've had tonnes of theories shot down. The point is that you had an idea, and brought it up.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Reads_Forums » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:06 am

She deserved what she got.

Stupid, stupid, rash action. Most likely scenario now is being questioned under the influence of the collar after Kersplish... attacking him was an unnecessary move, yeah there was underlying reasons for her acting rashly but when you risk your life in an all or nothing gambit, not considering the likely outcomes can only be considered rash, and stupid.

I don't know why people are spouting "Don't do a GRRM to us", as if that is the only author who refused to give his characters plot armour or as if it's a novel thing in fiction. Kin attacks psimax, kin kills minmax in 3 panels would have been a massive anticlimax to the arc. It would have been poor writing to end it like that. Psimax is hugely powerful, that much has been established. To render him powerless, (or forgetful enough to forget he can kersplish, when he obviously kersplishes stuff an awful lot) for a short period to allow an easy kill would have broken suspension of belief. If Kin attacks psimax, Kin has to go Kersplish, or psimax get demoted to loudmouthed grunt. I'm not sure I like Kin's actions here, she doesn't seem to have considered them very well which is unlike her, nor did we see that completely overwhelming panic at the mention of the collar, it just felt like she chose to take an ill advised gamble and lost and got kersplished for her trouble. She easily could have argued the "why should we lie? we know you can test our story and we have nothing to gain from lying" (In fact they have a lot to lose as minmax is obviously in peril, getting psimax to intervene to sort the mess out seems essential and time critical to me). Nothing would get psimax's attention faster than "Our minmax is running about with a chunk of obvlivion shaped like a sword"

Right now psimax doesn't know if he needs her alive, so probably won't finish her off and will question her with the collar. Otherwise finishing her off and using the collar on the short chap with the funny beard is his next move.



Will they redo the MoM? Unlikely, chances are this will be the last MoM, even if psimax dies/gets oblivioned chances are too much damage has been done to the MoM to allow a reset. Redoing the maze in the attempt of a perfect win has to be removed as an option and MM and Forgath will be forced to move on with the loss of Kin, otherwise the whole of the MoM arc is worthless. Might as well have minmax wake up in the shower after defeating the kobold warcamp.

Will minmax gain superhuman abilities and kill psimax, save kin, and they all have tea and biscuits in the next 3 panels? Very Unlikely. In fact without the intervention of psimax things are looking grim for our bald turd. That said, it's likely he will intervene to examine the almighty spanner in the works that is oblivious (and likely bring about his own downfall), so psimax will save minmax, he's not all bad. I quite like him as an antagonist, he's forced FMK to stop dithering about in search of a perfect win. He's not evil, he doesn't delight in others misfortune, he's just completely indifferent to it, he wouldn't kick a puppy unless it tangibly benefited his plans to do so. Still scary, but he's certainly no Goblinslayer, He's closer to Kore in that single minded "everything else is irrelevant" manner.

Will "I See You" be kin's last words/minmax's last words to Kin? Seems quite probable, I'd guess at the former rather than the latter. Kin might survive but I can't see them using the teapot and leaving her to return it to her clan in a crippled state or leaving her to chase some goblins if the whole "seeing" thing comes about as expected. I think she dies and they use the teapot to catch up to Names. Alternatively, she joins Minmax and Forgath and meets up with "those heroic goblins" having her rejuvenated and slithering off to return the teapot just... well doesn't seem credible if the seeing thing is confirmed. Will a crapload of healing potion save her? Doesn't sound like it.

Will minmax get enough roleplaying xp to kick Kore's ass? Unlikely. Will what he's learned recently perhaps avoid automatically classifying goblins as "enemy" and "xp". I hope so, having what remains of the two parties fleeing into a dungeon crawls chased by Kore could be quite a dramatic plot with a interesting finale (although the very high bridge leading to the crawl itself lends itself to Kore falling, I can't see Thunt wrapping up an arc so quickly after switching back to it, the goblins only chance is using the environment of the dungeon against Kore, "Rocks fall, Kore Dies"

Will minmax utter the words "I'm sad"? guess we have to wait till the next strip to find out.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:15 am

Reads_Forums wrote:She deserved what she got.

Stupid, stupid, rash action. Most likely scenario now is being questioned under the influence of the collar after Kersplish... attacking him was an unnecessary move, yeah there was underlying reasons for her acting rashly but when you risk your life in an all or nothing gambit, not considering the likely outcomes can only be considered rash, and stupid.
In my opinion she knew that she'd die if she tried to kill him - she really would die rather than let someone use the collar again. I think that that's part of why she's crying as she does it, she knows what it means.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Reads_Forums » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:25 am

Glemp wrote:
In my opinion she knew that she'd die if she tried to kill him - she really would die rather than let someone use the collar again. I think that that's part of why she's crying as she does it, she knows what it means.
If that is the case it's even more foolish as now she'll get the leash after the Kersplish, surely getting the leash alone is less bad than unimaginable pain, followed by leash, followed by death. Psimax is not Goblinslayer, he only wants information and the collar is the most efficient way to get the answers he wants. I guess she could try biting off her tongue, that would remove all reason for him using the leash on her, probably should have been her first course of action instead of this convoluted form of suicide.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Corpsificus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:35 am

"When the serpent becomes your prey friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."
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Before Young and Beautiful uttered these words she said that Forgath would die "in a great battle with another dwarf." Kore is a more likely candidate for killing Forgath than Psimax because he is a dwarf. I don't think that the prophesy has a direct connection to the events in the MoM, though they may ripple through the rest of the story. Kin may survive because she is the "serpent" in the prophesy or perhaps another serpent will show up to replace her. Perhaps these events will occur in succession or in different arcs and not necessarily at the same time. Regardless of speculation on Kin's fate, we know that Forgath will die in a battle with a dwarf if Young and Beautiful is right.

Additionally the wall told FMK that they do not want to find the GAP because it will end badly for them. At the moment we know that they are running from Kore. It seems very well set up that FM will reach GAP and Forgath will die fighting Kore (who is another dwarf). I'm not sure which character(s) will fill the role of serpent if Kin dies, but she may very well not be serpent to which the prophesy refers. Regardless of how the MoM turns out I figure that Forgath will not die here.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by WearsHats » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:49 am

Kin is s multiple rape survivor. That collar is the thing that made that rape possible. It's the thing most closely tied to that rape (and so knows what else). Using it takes away her ability to control her own body and mind. Psimax knows all this. Taking that leash would have been tantamount to rape.

Given all that, I am deeply disturbed to see the comment "She deserved what she got" in response to her attempts to defend herself at all costs.

(All that aside, defeating Psimax is their only chance to win and to save Minmax's life.)

If your argument is that it'll be worse for her now, I'd day that he would have killed her no matter what. Even if not, I don't think she could have lived with herself if she hadn't at least tried to fight him off. She promised herself that she would never run away again. Never back down, never give in. Never let someone take control of her again, no matter what.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Glemp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:51 am

WearsHats wrote:Kin is s multiple rape survivor. That collar is the thing that made that rape possible. It's the thing most closely tied to that rape (and so knows what else). Using it takes away her ability to control her own body and mind. Psimax knows all this. Taking that leash would have been tantamount to rape.

Given all that, I am deeply disturbed to see the comment "She deserved what she got" in response to her attempts to defend herself at all costs.

(All that aside, defeating Psimax is their only chance to win and to save Minmax's life.)

If your argument is that it'll be worse for her now, I'd day that he would have killed her no matter what. Even if not, I don't think she could have lived with herself if she hadn't at least tried to fight him off. She promised herself that she would never run away again. Never back down, never give in. Never let someone take control of her again, no matter what.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by RJJ7 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:04 am

Regarding the question of why Kin didn't snap his neck (back on page 4 or 5): If you look in the archive to where she killed scorpkin, you will notice that she not only had a grip on scorpkin's neck, but also had wrapped herself around scorpkin's tail as well (http://www.goblinscomic.com/09132011/). She was able to use her secondary grip on scorpkin as a brace, and break her neck by pulling the neck towards the tail into a position inconducive to connected vertebrae. When she has Psimax, all she has is his neck. She can twist, and pull him around, but he'll just flop around after her like a ragdoll. It would take some pretty fast, hard action to snap his neck (and while Kin's tail is strong, we don't have any indication that it is fast). That's my explanation, at any rate.

@Reads_Forums:
You are absolutely right that once Kin attacked Psimax she had to have something bad happen to her. However, while Thunt is constrained somewhat by natural human reaction to various storytelling techniques (not many people would have liked the anti-climax of Psimax dying so easily), he still has almost-absolute control over the story. He didn't have to put Kin in a position where she could attack Psimax. If he hadn't, she wouldn't have lost her tail. So it is perfectly acceptable to say "don't do a GRRM on us" (setting aside, for the moment, your perfectly reasonable assertion that GRRM is not the only storyteller to kill main characters).

Also, while I agree that Kin's actions are stupid, one could say the same thing about her actions in the upside-down forest when she essentially rolls into a ball of helpless, quivering snake-flesh. It certainly didn't help the situation, and it endangered her companions, who had to then rescue her useless behind. But in these situations, Kin is not making a reasoned, intelligent response, she is reacting in a highly irrational, emotionally-charged way to circumstances which trigger flashbacks to psychological trauma. I imagine that if you were to take Kin in one of her calmer moments and ask her if attacking Psimax was a smart thing to do, her response would have been in line with yours and mine: No, it was stupid.


Here's hoping for the best. While it is true that killing characters to evoke an emotional response in the reader can be used with great power in the hands of a good storyteller (which so far, I think Thunt qualifies as), if one heaps too much sadness on characters, it will start to distance readers from what is happening. No one wants to read a story where no one has a chance of achieving happiness. I'm not saying that Kin dying is going to tip the story over into that territory, but I will say that I am hoping that she survives (which makes me incredibly unique, you see ;) ).

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Moroser » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:08 am

Reads_Forums wrote:She deserved what she got.
What a poor choice of words, my dear Sir!
Reads_Forums wrote:she doesn't seem to have considered them very well which is unlike her
I would be surprised if she could think clearly in such a situation.
Reads_Forums wrote:nor did we see that completely overwhelming panic at the mention of the collar
Speak for yourself.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Snowy_One » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:37 am

I registered an account just because of this comic.

Why? Just... Why? Kin was easily my favorite character, and now she's going to be horribly crippled at BEST! This was seriously brutal and messed up by a huge degree, even more-so than when the green ball of death killed the other party.
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Reads_Forums » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:46 am

I still believe kersplish was an inevitable consequence of her choice of actions. She chose to be violent against someone who can kersplish her, her violence led to kersplish, I don't think she deserved to succeed, it would have been a much worse story if she had. I stand by she deserved kersplish as a consequence of her actions. I didn't mean it in any karmic use of the word deserved, just as a consequence of her immediate actions.

The panic she showed was nowhere near the level in the burning forest, Was it greater than the immediate threat she was under vs scorpikin, she's shown she can think clearly under stress, I saw more anger than fear.

Kersplish had to happen, anything else would have been weak.

A conflict with psimax was inevitable, if they passed through the final ring then a cut to psimax saying, what someone completed the maze already? Impossible! That would be a weak use of an antagonist.

Kin had options, I thought for 5 seconds for an alternative and biting her tongue off came immediately to mind, which I'm sure isn't the best option she had.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Rooks » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:48 am

Wow. Tough turn in the story for sure. After reading through most of the last pages, I'm not seeing a good way out of here. I see a lot of mentions of the counter being destroyed, and the o-hole theory is the only thing I can see working. I'm assuming those counters are severely magically enhanced (i.e. very hard to destroy for anyone other then some uber psion who can "ker-splat" pretty much anything he wants just by thinking it).

Side note: have any theories been thrown out for what level PsyMax actually is? I never played a psion, but good lord. Were they this over-powered in real 3.5? I remember reading the rules for attacking in-animate objects like doors or walls, and the amount of damage reduction they had was enormous. To be able to just go "I don't like your mace." KER-SPALT! Crazy. Anyway, I digress.

So yeah, I don't see our team having the know-how or the ability to destroy counters. Likewise, I don't see our MinMax having the ability to take PsyMax no matter how intense his "love-rage" would be. He's just too damn powerful.

My only theory going right now is that the Maze itself is going to do something. Essentially, PsyMax, by destroying the keys, has created a scenario that is impossible to win for anyone but himself (as he could probably just phase through the wall). I'd assume the Maze would have some mechanism for coping with that (hopefully it just destroys the stupid person that caused the scenario and resets). Otherwise, it wouldn't have lasted this long and been able to reset an infinite amount of times. You'd have to assume that prior to PsyMax coming around, there would be scenarios where every one died, or was turned into Zombies and no one won. With that many run-throughs, it's bound to happen a few times.

Sorry again, if this theory has already been thrown out. I'm not an avid forum reader. Figured I'd post on this one though.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by Master TMO » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:52 am

A couple of thoughts:
  • Regarding Kin not snapping PsiMax's neck- this is an HP-based system. PsiMax is a higher level opponent than ScorpKin. I'd be willing to bet her squeeze did damage that took ScorpKin below 0, and she could then Coup de Grace her with a broken neck. Her squeeze also did damage to PsiMax, but he's got a lot more HP, and therefore didn't drop below 0 and so wasn't eligible for a snap.
  • Oblivion Holes and the MoM- are they permanent additions to the Maze? Say there's a reset and FMK 156 start the maze over, will the holes be there still, or would they vanish with the reset? It depends on the damage PsiMax has inflicted to create them. It is a god-level artifact, after all. A reset might erase them, forcing PsiMax to start his process over again. What about people and items that were oblivioned? Will they be back after the next reset?
  • Oblivious: it's fairly obvious that the item punching random holes in the space-time and confusing PsiMax's calculations is Oblivious. Related to the permanence of the Oblivion Holes is the permanence of Oblivious through a reset, or even through a victory. Would Oblivious still be powered by Oblivion back in their real universe? After all, the holes were only local to the MoM. Are PsiMax's calculations even solvable with Oblivious running rampant through this Maze? Every time MinMax rips another hole, does it add another variable for PsiMax to solve?
  • Is Kin a PC, or an NPC?
The answers to these could result in different endings. I'm intentionally aiming towards endings that don't result in the permanent deaths of the PCs. From where the story is right now, killing the PCs is pretty simple and can be done hundreds of ways. The harder question is how can they get out of this alive? Not to mention that the clearest reading of the prophecy of Forgath's death involves all three of the party being present.
  1. PsiMax defeated, one of FMK 156 claims the victory before anybody dies.
  2. PsiMax wins without killing anyone, figures out they're too much trouble, throws them into the winner's circle so he can Oblivionate the MoM on the next cycle without interference.
  3. FMK defeats PsiMax by tossing him into the winner's circle and ride out a reset. Unless an oblivion hole has coincidentally erased their counter pedestal, they will lose all memories of the current cycle. If they don't remember, without PsiMax around, they will eventually win, but this storyline will effectively be removed from their history. If their counter is erased, they'll remember this time through and have a headstart toward winning, especially if the oblivion holes are still there, they can repeat the shortcut they took.
There are plenty of other options, those are just the top three I see so far.

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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by hellspawned » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:18 pm

Zwums wrote:Not even hugging my puppy made me feel better. This is almost as bad as Chief. Though Kin's death immediately after Minmax is very dramatic, literarily. At least I think so. :(
Damn you, you made me even more sad. :(
My puppy died a few days ago.

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WearsHats
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Re: April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

Post by WearsHats » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:20 pm

We don't know Psimax's level. There have been some numbers floated, based on the idea that XP gain drops off as you level up and continue to face level 3 enemies, but it's possible he found other sources of XP (monsters, traps, etc.) or managed to keep the challenge rating up by fighting groups of increasing size. It's clear he's well above level 3, in any case, but he's had over 800 maze runs to gain XP, so he's had ample opportunity to level.

Kin tried to strangle Psimax or do whatever she could to him. She was lashing out in panic, so might not have taken the best approach. That said, she was succeeding. And it did take several panels for her to strangle ScorpiKin. It takes a few seconds, at the least, and that was enough time for Psimax to counter.

As for Oblivious: It duplicated oblivion. It does not need to be contact with it again in order to retain that property. And, being made of oblivion, it transcends space and time. So I see no reason for it not to work outside the Maze. As for what would happen in a reset... hard to say. As someone else said, it would probably still exist (since it does exist outside of time), but Minmax would have to remember that it's there in order to reach out to retrieve it. Which, unless their counter was destroyed this time (by an oblivion hole or the collapse of part of the Maze or something), is highly unlikely.
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