Why donÔÇÖt people create? GM's and players how is it going?

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SamWiser
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by SamWiser » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:26 pm

LooksAtYouFunny wrote:Every plan is perfect... untill first encounter...
My 2 favorite iterations of that quote are by Napoleon and Mohammed Ali. Napoleons quote was "No plan survives contact with the enemy". Mohammed Ali said "Everybody has a plan, until they get hit in the face". Same basic concept, completely different ways of carrying it out.

On topic, I don't make games because I don't have any experience, artistic talent, or time. I'm finally starting to play some games, but I need help more often than not.
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by HerdsCats » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:47 pm

I... I have honestly never even thought about trying to do a mini-adventure. I've attempted games a few times in the past, but technical difficulties - namely the crashing and burning of my computers did me in for both Reveria and TribeMired. Yes, I've been through not one, not two but FOUR computers since I started on the goblins forums. So I stopped buying laptops >.< Heavy duty migraine headaches and a radically different work schedule stopped Cauldron. I'd actually like to get that one back up again. I might try a mini adventure for that to see how that goes.
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GathersIngredients
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by GathersIngredients » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:19 am

I guess most people don't have an idea/concept to even start creating a game, but I could be totally wrong. Others might not have the time and/or commitment needed to prepare/start a game and continue it until it's done. Others might think they lack the appropriate skills needed to run a game (e.g. knowledge of rules, artistic talent, narrative talent,...)

Personally, I tried to "GM" a part of a game WAY back in the keenspot forums (the warlock's tower in "The Lost Chapter Clan" if anyone still remembers that and/or wants to know; here, too, the original GM went MIA), and the people who were playing gradually stopped posting there. I don't know if it was because of my doing (I guess it's possible that I railroaded the whole thing a bit too much), and/or if people were loosing interest in that particular game generally, and/or if those people just happened to have less time on their hands and therefore didn't invest as much of it into non-essential things - like forum games - anymore. Maybe it was a combination of those things.
In any case it didn't do my self-esteem as potential GM any good. :(

I have been having a loose idea for a game prowling around in my head for quite some time now, but the setting is very similar to games that already exist. I don't know if there would be a "market" for this, in the first place and also, I have been hesitant to start working on a game when I was already working pretty hard on the German translation of the comics. I'm pretty sure I don't have enough time for both projects.
OTOH, now that most of the translation already done (forum apocalypse!) and most of the German translation team is MIA (lack of time/interest, I guess), anyways, I don't think I will pick up work on that again anytime soon. Too much frustration. :wall:
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:26 am

GathersIngredients wrote:Too much frustration. :wall:
That is understandable.

About the market thing I do believe there is a big marked for it, people hunger for games, thatÔÇÖs partly why I made this thread, and I guess, also the reason the god school is starting up again...

BTW: i just startet a game, singups are open: http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=197
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Theis2 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:36 am

Don't worry about the market for it, at least if you make something with D&D, and pretty sure that is true for LSN and ECR ish games as well.
And I think taking over another game might be a lot harder than to make your own game.
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Dusk9
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Dusk9 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:13 am

Personally, my problem is lack of originality. You give me existing rule systems, art, and/or settings, and I can learn them and expand their boundaries without breaking a sweat. However, if I try to draw my own art, or create my own mechanics, they just end up looking like crap, or being far, far too complicated.

This is sort of the reason the only games I've ever run were originally started by someone else, with established mechanics and stuff.
CTF: a reboot of the version Notimportant used to run, which used his base rule set. The setting was basically that of a distant sequel, and even though I didn't use his art directly, I did base everything off Moose's work on it. So there was practically nothing original.
Pokemon: taken from Burns after she couldn't continue it, I'm using an expanded, modified version of her original plot, and mechanics taken straight from the interwebs. It's mostly text, but even the little art it does have (battle maps), I'm in the process of shamelessly stealing from Donnigan's game :paranoia:

So yeah, I can fix/improve stuff, but not create my own without making something hideously complicated and ugly :roll:

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:20 am

Dusk9 wrote:Personally, my problem is lack of originality. You give me existing rule systems, art, and/or settings, and I can learn them and expand their boundaries without breaking a sweat. However, if I try to draw my own art, or create my own mechanics, they just end up looking like crap, or being far, far too complicated.

This is sort of the reason the only games I've ever run were originally started by someone else, with established mechanics and stuff.
CTF: a reboot of the version Notimportant used to run, which used his base rule set. The setting was basically that of a distant sequel, and even though I didn't use his art directly, I did base everything off Moose's work on it. So there was practically nothing original.
Pokemon: taken from Burns after she couldn't continue it, I'm using an expanded, modified version of her original plot, and mechanics taken straight from the interwebs. It's mostly text, but even the little art it does have (battle maps), I'm in the process of shamelessly stealing from Donnigan's game :paranoia:

So yeah, I can fix/improve stuff, but not create my own without making something hideously complicated and ugly :roll:

Well, I donÔÇÖt see the problem in that... thatÔÇÖs why we have the recourse part of the forum. IÔÇÖve actually just made a thread for complete rule sets, so that people can upload them there: http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=199
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by gamecreator » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:08 am

Dusk9 wrote:Personally, my problem is lack of originality. You give me existing rule systems, art, and/or settings, and I can learn them and expand their boundaries without breaking a sweat. However, if I try to draw my own art, or create my own mechanics, they just end up looking like crap, or being far, far too complicated.
You can overcome lack of originality by knowing loads and loads of things. Just read more various fiction. Existing system may be forked into something completely different (and you will see more ways to change it as you will read about more game systems). You can draw pixelart, it's something anyone seems to be capable of doing. And I don't think anything anyone can come up with in reasonable timespan will be more complicated than d&d.

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thinkslogically
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:13 am

That's one way, but it's a bit daunting.

Originality will come automatically because YOU are running your game and you will (by default) put a different spin on things than anyone else will. Forget about how anyone else would run the game and tell the story that YOU want to tell, in the way that best suits you. I like to run games that have a huge amount of player freedom because I like to be surprised by the players actions (and frankly, they're a bigger source of creativity than me on my own!), but you will have your own preferences.

KEEP THINGS SIMPLE to begin with and you'll soon pick it up. Oh - and your game will take (at least) twice as long to complete as you think it will, so give yourself plenty of time!

A lot of these problems can be overcome just by asking on the forum too. We have a thread in resources for ideas and while you might worry about giving away the plotlines to your game, you can still get a lot of ideas in there for dungeon-dives that would suit the forums. Just don't post all the details :)

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Wolfie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:27 am

I am planning on starting a game, probably somewhere around June. I have ideas that are currently running through my head and some are even put down on paper. However, between my current schedule and the wedding planning, I literally have no extra time to sit and plot.

Fear not, my eventual bumbling foray into GM'ing a game that is not TWSK is on its way. Eventually...
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Jibjib » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:43 am

For me, the scariest part of making a game is the idea of making a mistake, which I do more often than I'd like. However, if the thought of doing something wrong and being judged for it is what's something stopping you from making something, it shouldn't. People are naturally awesome at forgiving and forgetting, especially round here :)
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:59 am

We will look forward to tha Wolfie :) uh, and long planed games Is often a good thing, care to tell somthing about it? or is it top secret :ugeek: (puts on glasses trying to look stealth)

JibJib, I think this is just the right place if you do want to try off some GM'ing powers, as said before... just mention it in your opening thread :)
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Wolfie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:52 am

LooksAtYouFunny wrote:We will look forward to tha Wolfie :) uh, and long planned games Is often a good thing, care to tell something about it? or is it top secret :ugeek: (puts on glasses trying to look stealth)
Not top secret, but I'm going to base it off of a world I created a while ago with a friend of mine, just going to add a D&D-ish perspective to it. I'm probably going to have 4-5 players initially, depending on whether characters die. There will be puzzles and battles and loot, Oh My!. I just have to set down a plot and create maps and rooms and other stuff.. which means I need GIMP. Right now all I have is Open Office's version of Paint.

What I have right now is this: The characters are all going to start in a town of mixed races. They'll be the baker, the blacksmith, the bartender, etc. They'll wake up doing these jobs and have no idea how they got there or why they're doing what they're doing. The first order of business will be to find each other, figure out why things happened the way they did, and follow the plot line from there.

Which means I'm going to need developed characters with backgrounds from everyone.

It's ambitious, especially for a first time, but I'm hoping to be able to do it without too many issues.
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:12 am

that sounds very cool Wolfie :) Looking forward to it! If it's just GIMP knowledge that's holding you back though, the original god school lessons are still available (in the 1st post of my new god school thread) which should get you to where you are wanting to be. If I can help as well, please just PM me and I can see what I can do (if you need help on spoilery-stuff I'll just not sign up to the game :))

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by Wolfie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:29 am

Oh I'll be shadowing the God School thread, don't think I won't be. I'll need all the help I can get. And I may just take you up on the offer of the help if I get stuck and need someone to bounce ideas off of. :) Thanks Thinks.

edited because I can't read...
"This is my therapy dragon, she's for my panic attacks. I attack, everyone panics." (Quote found on http://outofcontextdnd.tumblr.com/)

"If I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds" ~Sir Butcher

"How few there are who have courage enough to own their faults, or resolution enough to mend them." ~Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:39 am

I agree with Thinks, it sounds interesting Wolfie, I two would like to help if needed, after all, thatÔÇÖs what we are here for... (as I donÔÇÖt have the time to both play and GM, IÔÇÖll not be signing up)

Edit for TTW name to Thinks
Last edited by LAYF on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by ThroughTheWell » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:01 am

Not me folks; I think that was ThinksLogicaly you both meant. (Unless I'm going crazy.)

For me, art takes way too much time. And time, even for the text is daunting. Plus, yes, if I made one I'd like to have a plan for most of it done prior to game start, which again takes time.
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:05 am

ThroughTheWell wrote:(Unless I'm going crazy.)
Is that not the state of mind for most of us?


Any ways... Edited your name to thinks, thanks...

So... major problem seems to be Time and confidence...
Hmm...
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by ThroughTheWell » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:27 pm

I did add content to Hats 2, but we ran out of GM. The GM had to move goblin avatars around in front of room art backgrounds, and have them interact with items and people, then add text for turn updates. If it had not been so art intensive, I might have stepped in for text only updates. But then still, there was designing new rooms with their art. Art has the advantage of hidden clues in plain sight, whereas in text without art you have to describe more and yet kind of go silent on the clue. Art also is good for maps, so that people know here they can go. I was disapointed that players never got to some of the rooms. I dono, anyone have ideas on how to resurect Hats 2 with less work for a GM?
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:29 pm

Sorry to sound dum... but... Hats 2?
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:46 pm

LAYF - Hats was a supremely random game designed by LSN which I believe had very limited planning adn was therefore silly and random. It was a lot of fun! The goal was to retrieve the Hatman's favourite hat from inside the dungeon, while gaining other hats en route (hats being the source of all power). Here's the link if you want to have a read: http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3596968

TTW - not really... Having everyone else do the artwork for you is pretty much most of the battle, the rest is what you'd need to do with a sprite game anyway. The thing that struck me about Hats 2 was how utterly massive it was. I guess if you cut that down it would be a lot easier to manage. Maybe if you had a list of all the 'normal' rooms and a list of 'end boss' rooms you could use it as a cool random dungeon generator? So take e.g. 8 'normal rooms, and glue them together as you see fit and add one 'boss room' and Voila! One mini and random (and totally Hats-esque) dungeon. All you'd have to worry about then would be items since you could presumably (in true Hats fashion) simply have everyone teleport between the rooms rather than use doors.

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by LAYF » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:59 pm

Ah thanks.. IÔÇÖve seen this game before, just could not remember the name...

TTW- What Thinks said... I do believe there to be enough sprites in the recourse thread to make a decent game... and rooms donÔÇÖt have to be more than squares with holes for doors... then as Thinks said, make 8 rooms or so with random monsters and/or puzzles... put them together randomly and add a boss monster room... boom and your un your way...
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by ThroughTheWell » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:07 pm

OT Hats2:
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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by gamecreator » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:11 pm

thinkslogically wrote:Hats was a supremely random game designed by LSN which I believe had very limited planning adn was therefore silly and random. It was a lot of fun! The goal was to retrieve the Hatman's favourite hat from inside the dungeon, while gaining other hats en route (hats being the source of all power).
Seems like nice game!

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Re: Why donÔÇÖt people create games?

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:12 pm

Aye, I remember it :) But you asked how to cut down the work of GMing and I think cutting the size down would be a good way to go. Hats was also huge, but even LSN admitted he was struggling to keep it going by the end. Giant dungeons don't necessarily make for better games than little ones (Last Ditch was only 9 / 10 rooms but everyone went mad for it), and we're more likely to get to the end of a small dungeon rather than have something that runs out of steam half way through.

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