The Goblins Fan Forum

Plays_Games wrote:(Longtime lurker, first time poster here, Hi all!)

It's been suggested that psimax could be throw into the winners circle, thus resetting the maze. Possibly destroying their own counter, so they keep their memorys.

Wouldn't it be more logical for PsyMax to let 'our' FMK group win the maze, and redo the calculations with a new group?

• PsyMax has said something about a group using oblivion-holes to their own advantage, everyone (including FMK) seems to think this concerns using the hole in the ceiling. But what about 'Oblivious', the sword MinMax is wielding. No doubt that is causing more problems in said calculations then a simple hole in the ceiling.
• You could argue that the love Kin & MinMax feel for each other is causing PsyMax to feel nausea, adding even more variables on two ends.
• PsyMax could easily extract MinMax from the tower battle to check what is what, thus reuniting the group.

I think it might be something like this, or possibly MinMax killing PsyMax with oblivious, since PsyMax wont be able to 'splish' the sword.

I'm thinking mostly along the same lines, psimax is the agent most likely to reunite minimax and kin, minmax jumping through the ceiling is not really workable and psimax does have a huge interest in minmax's buggering about with holes in time. I think he'll fail to calculate oblivious's factor in things and be taken by surprise by a hand change/be unable to kersplishk and be left vulnerable.

Forgath dragging minimax into the winners circle as the MoM collapses around them or uses the teapot to escape the maze... Ideas along that line work as an imperative has been created to forbid the reset again strategy. If this isn't the last ever run there is no urgency and no interest as to if they succeed as they will eventually get a perfect run. Forcing them to accept a non perfect run seems to be the entire point of psimax, an agent who is looking to stop all runs of the MoM. Beat him then return to another few million tries and a cut to them outside victorious wondering how it took so long as that last run was easy, would be the biggest copout I've personally read. Thunt's a better writer than that, so far the setup is great and worthy of a great climax. A great climax doesn't depend on kin living, it's not impossible she'll live, I think there are many better ways to kill her than drag her through this without it feeling like plot armour saving her.

Kin lives or kin dies, I hope the climax is worthy of a well crafted setup. I'd rather she died in a brilliant ending than survived in a contrived manner.

Psimax isn't malevolent, until kin attacked him he had no intentions but to gather information on 156. He still probably has no ill feelings towards kin, he's completely detached in that way. If his goals coincide with 156 he'd help them again. If not he won't. Until now he didn't see any of the groups as enemies as he wasn't competing with them.

I think psimax will come to a sticky end, the "the best solution is to set you free, if your kin hadn't attacked me she'd be free with you" although painful, doesn't have a neat finish to it. It's a plausible outcome that their goals coincide, out of all the groups their is the one he has most interest in removing from the MoM.


I don't think engaging him verbally isn't a matter of tricking him, sometimes their goals coincide which is why he helped 156 before. Engage is logical debate, lead him to the conclusion that 156 makes the problem unsolvable (not unexpected with added recursion through time holes)and he'll get them out as fast as possible, after all he's failed 100s of times before and 156 have been in all of them,

If not, attacking him with minimax extracted so he can study oblivious, no matter how much he studies it the less he'll understand it, gives them a better chance of success if minimax can follow up kind attack with a surprise of his own.

Random Scenario Man striking again:
PsiMax brings MinMax up to find out what he's doing to cause so many blips in his calculations, maybe holding him telekinetically bound to the wall or in the air. As PsiMax walks around him interrogating him, he happens to walk in front of MinMax's hand, who promptly summons Oblivious and guts him, without having to move at all.

BeanDip wrote:

Glemp wrote:

BeanDip wrote: Nothing is stopping PsyMax from just SPLISHKing Kore's bolts as they fly toward him. SPLISHK EX MACHINA!

True.
However, I don't think that he could SPLISH them. Most the times we've seen him SPLISH stuff, it's been things that are stationary, that he can focus on. The only thing that wasn't was his Kin's tail, which he was expecting to move in that way because of how many time's he's dealt with her. I don't think that he'd be able to cope with multiple fast-moving objects.

Hmm. This is true.

I guess the only way we will know for sure is if we send Thunt lots of cash, hugs and "pretty pleases" in exchange for an "arena" where we can pit characters who never met against each other.

Goblinslayer V Kore, Saral Caine V Kseliss, GAP V MMAP, Riss V Young and Beautiful, Anyone V Kore.

Sounds like a nice dream anyway.

MORTAL COMBAT!

BeanDip wrote:I guess the only way we will know for sure is if we send Thunt lots of cash, hugs and "pretty pleases" in exchange for an "arena" where we can pit characters who never met against each other.

Goblinslayer V Kore, Saral Caine V Kseliss, GAP V MMAP, Riss V Young and Beautiful, Anyone V Kore.

Sounds like a nice dream anyway.

The card game which shall be up on Kickstarter in a month or so fits the bill


I'm still most concerned with the possibility that Kin's body might be put into an O-Hole (still barely alive or not). At which point PsiMax, MinMax and Forgath will all have no real reason not to

PsiMax will know that this group threw off his calculations, but no memory as to why, and the boys will not remember that they're leaving someone behind. Alternatively, Kin and PsiMax might disappear into the imperfect oblivion, as others have suggested.

Either way, MinMax will be rather like a Rider who survived their Dragon going *between*: forever having an empty part of himself. And you can't exactly go on a quest to revive someone you can't even remember...

CelineSSauve wrote:

BeanDip wrote:I guess the only way we will know for sure is if we send Thunt lots of cash, hugs and "pretty pleases" in exchange for an "arena" where we can pit characters who never met against each other.

Goblinslayer V Kore, Saral Caine V Kseliss, GAP V MMAP, Riss V Young and Beautiful, Anyone V Kore.

Sounds like a nice dream anyway.

The card game which shall be up on Kickstarter in a month or so fits the bill


I'm still most concerned with the possibility that Kin's body might be put into an O-Hole (still barely alive or not). At which point PsiMax, MinMax and Forgath will all have no real reason not to

PsiMax will know that this group threw off his calculations, but no memory as to why, and the boys will not remember that they're leaving someone behind. Alternatively, Kin and PsiMax might disappear into the imperfect oblivion, as others have suggested.

Either way, MinMax will be rather like a Rider who survived their Dragon going *between*: forever having an empty part of himself. And you can't exactly go on a quest to revive someone you can't even remember...

Reading this kinda makes sense as to why minimax says "hi names remember me?" And isn't focusing on Kin's plight, will he forget everything about monsters not always being monsters, or just not remember why his feelings changed? It'd solve one of the issues of 156 to as the love would never have existed. A quite possible outcome if we're getting to "hi names" in the near future. It opens up a lot of possibilities for a good story. I approve!

Wild, wild idea. Probably all wrong, but you know, maybe a spoiler.

I'm just going to leave this here. I realize I'm "rezzing" a somewhat narco discussion within this thread, but I think this needs to be said: as a long, long-time reader, but relatively new forum goer, discussions like this turn me off. Reads.Forums is articulating himself clearly and non offensively. Seriously. I went and looked through it and it's fine.

I understand people get emotional about the comic, and expect other people to sympathize, but that's not the responsibility of everyone in the forum. People have the right to disagree, and articulate themselves well, as long as it's not blatantly rude. Rude is different than offensive. Sometimes people take offense to things based on their personal experience that couldn't be predicted - or really shouldn't be taken offensively, even if it could be.

As someone who normally enjoys discussion on potentially controversial topics, I've seen good and bad approaches. A Moderator threatening someone for making objective and well-articulated comments someone disagrees with is incredibly bad form, and discouraging to otherwise intelligent participants of any forum. Also, moderator advice criticizing someone for poor phrasing, at the same time calling that person a jackass? Unprovoked?

I have to say Rocket, I'm remarkably unimpressed by the lack of class you've shown here. Perhaps your time on the forums has lead you to cynicism as you imply below. However, that's not an excuse. If you're in a position of power, you have the responsibility to exercise it effectively and responsibly. Please avoid smacking users who don't deserve it.

And know that there are those of us out there who look at this sort of thing. I think you're a decent guy - don't get me wrong. I think you just need to be aware that overextending into the realm of "I don't like what he's saying" and then puffing yourself up as a Mod in order to intimidate a person is going too far. A good Mod will allow discussion to continue as long as it's reasonable - and I cannot cite a single instance of even remotely "towing the line between respectful and disrespectful" in what Reads is saying - to anyone. You've put him in a position where he had to defend his words - unnecessarily, as nothing needed a defense.

You've since backed off, and I appreciate that. I just wanted it made clear that he's not alone in disagreeing with your efforts here.

RocketScientist wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:Rocket scientist

Hole? what hole? You seem to think I regret my choice of words. I don't. They weren't offensive.


It's hard to take any advice that starts with "dude" seriously, for future reference.

I was trying to politely point out that you're being a blithering jackass, and that you might want to reconsider that. Also, pulling the passive aggressive bullshit you just pulled on a moderator is a bad idea. For future reference.

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]While you have an opinion on the former matter, and is fully entitled to that opinion, It is not related to the comic or this thread, actions has been taken, and will in the future. IF you have a problem with a mod, Please, use the report option presented in the upper right corner of each post. Or PM an Administrator.

DO NOT, post about it in the forums as you have just did, doing so is Derailing and in worse cases, can result in a flame war that no one wants.

While all people have the right to talk politely about their opinions on different matters, THIS part of the forum is for comic related discussion, not personal or real life experience and opinions, such discussion can (In a civil manner) be taken in other parts of the forum.

The best regards -LAYF-[/mod]

ForgetsOldName wrote:Wild, wild idea. Probably all wrong, but you know, maybe a spoiler.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax and Kin are now "seeing" each other. That means that Kin can now wield Oblivious. Minmax drops the sword, Kin picks it up, Minmax takes the opportunity to jump through the hole, voila, happy ending.

ForgetsOldName wrote:Wild, wild idea. Probably all wrong, but you know, maybe a spoiler.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax and Kin are now "seeing" each other. That means that Kin can now wield Oblivious. Minmax drops the sword, Kin picks it up, Minmax takes the opportunity to jump through the hole, voila, happy ending.

I was thinking something similar.

kaeroku wrote: And know that there are those of us out there who look at this sort of thing. I think you're a decent guy - don't get me wrong. I think you just need to be aware that overextending into the realm of "I don't like what he's saying" and then puffing yourself up as a Mod in order to intimidate a person is going too far. A good Mod will allow discussion to continue as long as it's reasonable - and I cannot cite a single instance of even remotely "towing the line between respectful and disrespectful" in what Reads is saying - to anyone. You've put him in a position where he had to defend his words - unnecessarily, as nothing needed a defense.

Another small nitpick - RS is female. Believe me, I know.

Reads_Forums wrote:Reading this kinda makes sense as to why minimax says "hi names remember me?" And isn't focusing on Kin's plight, will he forget everything about monsters not always being monsters, or just not remember why his feelings changed?

Ever since Kin's Birthday party, I don't think that "Hi Names, remember me?" is a threat. I think it's the start of a reconciliation. It's almost certainly MinMax saying it but it might finish more like:

MinMax: "Hi Names, remember me?"
Names: "MINMAX?!"
MinMax: "Yeah it's me. Listen. I'm totes sorry about that whole 'trying to kill you just because you're a hideous monster' business and want to make amends."
Names: "S'cool bro. Wanna help me kill this evil guy named Kore?"
MinMax: "Golly geewhiz! Do I ever!"

*SUPER BEST FRIENDS FOREVER HIGH-FIVE!!*

kaeroku wrote:

ForgetsOldName wrote:Wild, wild idea. Probably all wrong, but you know, maybe a spoiler.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax and Kin are now "seeing" each other. That means that Kin can now wield Oblivious. Minmax drops the sword, Kin picks it up, Minmax takes the opportunity to jump through the hole, voila, happy ending.

I was thinking something similar.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax now sees Kin. Minmax wields Oblivious. Minmax can REACH THROUGH SPACE AND TIME with Oblivious, as shown in previous fights and context (such as when he lost the sword by letting go of it... which is why I think your theory won't work. He can't "drop" it.) Minmax reaches through space to open a mini-O-hole and beheads PsiMax, sensing him through Kin? Same ending.

Okay... So I'm not sure why we're spoilering this (rather like a "why are we whispering?) type of conversation, but I'll go with the flow on this one...

BeanDip wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:Reading this kinda makes sense as to why minimax says "hi names remember me?" And isn't focusing on Kin's plight, will he forget everything about monsters not always being monsters, or just not remember why his feelings changed?

Ever since Kin's Birthday party, I don't think that "Hi Names, remember me?" is a threat. I think it's the start of a reconciliation. It's almost certainly MinMax saying it but it might finish more like:

MinMax: "Hi Names, remember me?"
Names: "MINMAX?!"
MinMax: "Yeah it's me. Listen. I'm totes sorry about that whole 'trying to kill you just because you're a hideous monster' business and want to make amends. Kin helped me to see the error of my ways."
Names: "S'cool bro. Wanna help me kill this evil guy named Kore?"
MinMax: "Golly geewhiz! Do I ever!"

*BEST FRIENDS FOREVER HIGH-FIVE!!*

Seriously though, if anything it's Complains that'll be the problem - he's had...quite a bad experience with humans lately, and he was just raging.

CelineSSauve wrote:

kaeroku wrote:

ForgetsOldName wrote:Wild, wild idea. Probably all wrong, but you know, maybe a spoiler.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax and Kin are now "seeing" each other. That means that Kin can now wield Oblivious. Minmax drops the sword, Kin picks it up, Minmax takes the opportunity to jump through the hole, voila, happy ending.

I was thinking something similar.

► Show Spoiler

Minmax now sees Kin. Minmax wields Oblivious. Minmax can REACH THROUGH SPACE AND TIME with Oblivious, as shown in previous fights and context (such as when he lost the sword by letting go of it... which is why I think your theory won't work. He can't "drop" it.) Minmax reaches through space to open a mini-O-hole and beheads PsiMax, sensing him through Kin? Same ending.

Okay... So I'm not sure why we're spoilering this (rather like a "why are we whispering?) type of conversation, but I'll go with the flow on this one...

► Show Spoiler

What if MinMax decides to stab whatever is hurting Kin without moving from where he is? After all, he can pull Oblivious through space/time, why couldn't he push it?

Because that isn't how the sword works - it only exists when Minmax (or Kin, in this theory) is holding it. When he (they) let go, it stays in the same spot in time and space until he reaches in and takes it. He can't 'push' it, because it isn't past-Max providing the force, it's present-Max, and...dear me, that was a joke wasn't it?

Glemp wrote:

BeanDip wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:Reading this kinda makes sense as to why minimax says "hi names remember me?" And isn't focusing on Kin's plight, will he forget everything about monsters not always being monsters, or just not remember why his feelings changed?

Ever since Kin's Birthday party, I don't think that "Hi Names, remember me?" is a threat. I think it's the start of a reconciliation. It's almost certainly MinMax saying it but it might finish more like:

MinMax: "Hi Names, remember me?"
Names: "MINMAX?!"
MinMax: "Yeah it's me. Listen. I'm totes sorry about that whole 'trying to kill you just because you're a hideous monster' business and want to make amends. Kin helped me to see the error of my ways."
Names: "S'cool bro. Wanna help me kill this evil guy named Kore?"
MinMax: "Golly geewhiz! Do I ever!"

*BEST FRIENDS FOREVER HIGH-FIVE!!*

Seriously though, if anything it's Complains that'll be the problem - he's had...quite a bad experience with humans lately, and he was just raging.

Aren't F&M still under the impression the GAP want to end the world? Unless kin is with them, no one can correct that misconception.

Reads_Forums wrote:Aren't F&M still under the impression the GAP want to end the world? Unless kin is with them, no one can correct that misconception.

I thought that they'd mostly forgotten about that, and it was an excuse to reset Forgath's character development after the warcamp battle? I think by now MM was using it as an excuse to chase after Complains for vengeance.

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]This is off topic, read above. any future comments on this matter will be deleted right away.[/mod]

Glemp wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:Aren't F&M still under the impression the GAP want to end the world? Unless kin is with them, no one can correct that misconception.

I thought that they'd mostly forgotten about that, and it was an excuse to reset Forgath's character development after the warcamp battle? I think by now MM was using it as an excuse to chase after Complains for vengeance.

Can't remember when but they mentioned it to Kin, so seemed pretty active in their thoughts. Kin was talking about some heroic goblins and F or MM said "these goblins are trying to end the world" while it's been a long time comictime, hasn't been that long for F & MM.

Reads_Forums wrote:

Glemp wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:Aren't F&M still under the impression the GAP want to end the world? Unless kin is with them, no one can correct that misconception.

I thought that they'd mostly forgotten about that, and it was an excuse to reset Forgath's character development after the warcamp battle? I think by now MM was using it as an excuse to chase after Complains for vengeance.

Can't remember when but they mentioned it to Kin, so seemed pretty active in their thoughts. Kin was talking about some heroic goblins and F or MM said "these goblins are trying to end the world" while it's been a long time comictime, hasn't been that long for F & MM.

They did say that, but mostly it's just been mentioned in throwaway lines so I don't think it'll come up much.

Glemp wrote:

Reads_Forums wrote:She deserved what she got.

Stupid, stupid, rash action. Most likely scenario now is being questioned under the influence of the collar after Kersplish... attacking him was an unnecessary move, yeah there was underlying reasons for her acting rashly but when you risk your life in an all or nothing gambit, not considering the likely outcomes can only be considered rash, and stupid.

In my opinion she knew that she'd die if she tried to kill him - she really would die rather than let someone use the collar again. I think that that's part of why she's crying as she does it, she knows what it means.

Yes, I'm with you Glemp. I think she knew that she'd die, and decided that was better then the alternative. Remember, she's already told us that here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/09282009/

Seadee wrote:A yuan-ti has a regenerative process for when they have severe wounds and can enter a hibernation mode that can heal damaged organs and regrow lost limbs. While they are awake they can heal cuts and bruises in mere seconds and stab and blunt wounds in minutes. They also have the adaptability to adapt to the environment for survival, such as being able to hold their breath for hours while in water or emit a poison at stronger predators that are trying to kill them.

Some of Kin's Yuan-Ti powers are suppressed by the leash though... I hope she makes it....

Starfire wrote:

Seadee wrote:A yuan-ti has a regenerative process for when they have severe wounds and can enter a hibernation mode that can heal damaged organs and regrow lost limbs. While they are awake they can heal cuts and bruises in mere seconds and stab and blunt wounds in minutes. They also have the adaptability to adapt to the environment for survival, such as being able to hold their breath for hours while in water or emit a poison at stronger predators that are trying to kill them.

Some of Kin's Yuan-Ti powers are suppressed by the leash though... I hope she makes it....

Goblinslayer did mention he needed healing potions after he beat Kin. If she healed wounds that fast it's unlikely he'd need them, and thus regeneration is either a trait Kin lacks or is being suppressed by the leash.

WearsHats wrote:Kin and Forgath are being held motionless by a powerful enemy. Their one chance to save Minmax's life is to get past him to the treasure room. Psimax is ready to kill them both with a thought (literally) as soon as he gets the answers he wants. (As it happens, he's also ready to kill everyone else in the maze. But Kin very likely does not know that.) There's also the emotional aspect, but the argument at hand is pure tactics, so let's leave that aside.

You know that brings up a good point. Why doesn't PsiMax just kill everyone and then not win the maze? That would give him all the time in the world to complete his calculation without fear of people messing it up.

Hmm... maybe the maze take a total kill as a "Win" by the last one....

Rooks wrote:

WearsHats wrote:Kin and Forgath are being held motionless by a powerful enemy. Their one chance to save Minmax's life is to get past him to the treasure room. Psimax is ready to kill them both with a thought (literally) as soon as he gets the answers he wants. (As it happens, he's also ready to kill everyone else in the maze. But Kin very likely does not know that.) There's also the emotional aspect, but the argument at hand is pure tactics, so let's leave that aside.

You know that brings up a good point. Why doesn't PsiMax just kill everyone and then not win the maze? That would give him all the time in the world to complete his calculation without fear of people messing it up.

*Takes a deep breath* Because....um. Er. Maybe he thinks that he's doing them a favour by completely wiping them out rather than killing them, because they won't go through DnD Heaven/Hell and can't be resurrected? Or the Maze resets if it is impossible to win - e.g., if the only one who can doesn't want to?

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]Deleted. PM send to explain why, any future discussion about this, please be keept out of this thread.[/mod]