Nov 12, 2013 update: "Where are my crumpets?"

[spiderwrangler]

Thunt's tweet:

"Let me clarify. I'm not leaving the Min-Kin story arc now. Next update IS Min-Kin. Next update is ALSO the GAP.
01:01:42 AM November 12, 2013"

Any thoughts - because I have no idea how he'll manage to do this

Yeah, there'd be NO WAY he could draw some sort of transition from where Minmax and Forgath actually drink the tea, then are teleported to where the GAP is... that would require some sort of magic teleportation device... like a.... a... well... a Jade Teapot would probably do the trick.

[Krulle]

Psst. Wanna know a secret? Come closer... Closer... Next update, we return to the Goblin Adventuring Party.
11:30 PM - 11 Nov 13

Let me clarify. I'm not leaving the Min-Kin story arc now. Next update IS Min-Kin. Next update is ALSO the GAP.
12:01 AM - 12 Nov 13

Good thing that our beloved author and artist foresaw our scepticism and introduced such an item very early into the story (more than three years ago!).
Incredible crowd-play!

Well done, Thunt!

[Gurkenglas]

Forgath: "What? If he doesn't drink the tea, he proves his untrustworthyness, but is still there. If he drinks the tea, the trust test is done, but he disappears! It's a stupid test! Tell him instead to not drink the tea in order to prove his worth."

[Krulle]

I thought so too, lieber Gurkenglas, but what do you think will happen if Minmax gets hurt outside the Maze of Many?
Will Kin feel it and teaport to him?
Or will she not feel it, as the MoM, and thus herself, is outside of time?

So many questions to be answered!
Please stay hooked to find out!

[RmGoblinFollower]

I have a theory about the Maze. Both Forgoth and Minmax will leave the maze by drinking the tea. However as they did not leave the maze by using the portals THE MAZE will not recognize that they have left. Thus as they continue their journey and go off to eventually fight Kore. Both Minmax and Forgoth Die, in heroic and horribly messy ways.
Meanwhile, Kin through adventuring has found out for herself what the other kins are like and more particularly has figured out that she could "see" Minmax from the way he dies. She works out that all she has to do is die and they will all be resurrected. Since the kins will have made it so that they all remember their times through the maze, The party appears at the beginning of the maze an are reunited. (I am not sure how the kins could Isolate the keeping of memories to just themselves, as PsiMAX could not do it. In order for him to keep his memories his entire party needed to remember each run). Maybe this is just hopeful thinking though.

[Neoriceisgood]

Nice to know we're finally going back to the Goblins next update ... sort of.

[Quild]

I thought so too, lieber Gurkenglas, but what do you think will happen if Minmax gets hurt outside the Maze of Many?
Will Kin feel it and teaport to him?
Or will she not feel it, as the MoM, and thus herself, is outside of time?

So many questions to be answered!
Please stay hooked to find out!

Presumably Kin will exit the MoM at the exact same time than MM so nothing can happen to him while she's still inside.

And I would say that anything which happen to Kin while MM has left the MoM won't be felt by him if a reset occurs.

Question could be, what will happen to MM if she got injured during her last try of the MoM? Maybe MM would feel it for only a fraction of second?


I also really wonders what will happen to Kin if she goes through a reset of the MoM. What about her tail? And the necklace? What about the oblivion holes?
The Kins want to start the race the four of them together? How would they pass the very first trial? If they don't start together, our Kin can't do it while alone. Even with the knowledge of every inch of the maze, the tower room may be a problem (except if they can go there way before any other team or know where to find the best kick ass stuff).

@RmGoblinFollower: The paladin is not evil and has a name (Kore). I like the idea that the maze wouldn't recognize the use of the teapot but I am not sure it can act without its range.

[Iron Sun 254]

Here's my prediction. Minmax and Forgath will leave to chase the goblins. Over the course of their adventures, Kin will realize that she "sees" him. She will then use the teapot to come back to him. That's the best ending for them I can think of right now.

Today's page

My predicition is she'll realize she "sees" him when she feels the heat of the tea in her mouth when Minmax drinks it.





.

[Sessine]

My first reaction to this page: Kin's reply seems ambiguous at the end. Is drinking the tea her answer to his offer, or a refusal to address it?

Given how Kin's been acting since the necklace was obliterated, "refusal to address it" seems more likely.

The following is in no way a criticism of Kin's reaction to Minmax grabbing the leash; it's an observation that predates that:

Honestly, obliterating the necklace seems to have made her completely insane with regards to Minmax. It's like, she has emotions but she isn't even trying to deal with them, she's just entirely shut down on them and is just dismissing Minmax over and over, and has been doing so since before the leash-grab.

Personally, I feel like this is out of character- not that it's unrealistic, but that it's unrealistic for Kin, who we know to be a woman of great logic and thoughtfulness and curiosity about herself and her surroundings. Instead of trying to understand what's going on in her brain, she's gotten locked into a very inflexible stance, one that makes it look as if obliterating the necklace changed her, not just her memory.

I don't know... I find both of their reactions to this whole situation very, very believable. In the, what, 5-10 seconds after the necklace was obliterated, they both reacted with knee-jerk responses based on long-established habits. Kin became uncertain about her feelings and withdrew from MM, MinMax did something desperate and stupid, and disastrous -- and Kin's reaction to that was terror and then utter fury. This all rang very true, and it put them very much at odds. But the situation wasn't that simple, for either of them.

I don't think she's dismissing MinMax, exactly. Look how unhappy she is. She's feeling his misery... and I'm pretty sure there's some of her own in the mix, too. It's a sign of how much she does care about him that she hasn't been able to be calm, rational, and objective about the situation. Remember, "seeing" is always rare. Between someone of her race and a different one, a human, it's completely outside what she has always believed to be possible. This is a huge hurdle for her to get over. It would stretch credulity if she could do it instantly.

Yes, she's very intelligent. I suspect she's at least halfway there already. But she's fighting her way to that insight through a thicket of emotions.

[Wolfie]

I don't know... I find both of their reactions to this whole situation very, very believable. In the, what, 5-10 seconds after the necklace was obliterated, they both reacted with knee-jerk responses based on long-established habits. Kin became uncertain about her feelings and withdrew from MM, MinMax did something desperate and stupid, and disastrous -- and Kin's reaction to that was terror and then utter fury. This all rang very true, and it put them very much at odds. But the situation wasn't that simple, for either of them.

I don't think she's dismissing MinMax, exactly. Look how unhappy she is. She's feeling his misery... and I'm pretty sure there's some of her own in the mix, too. It's a sign of how much she does care about him that she hasn't been able to be calm, rational, and objective about the situation. Remember, "seeing" is always rare. Between someone of her race and a different one, a human, it's completely outside what she has always believed to be possible. This is a huge hurdle for her to get over. It would stretch credulity if she could do it instantly.

Yes, she's very intelligent. I suspect she's at least halfway there already. But she's fighting her way to that insight through a thicket of emotions.

^^This.

Kin has been through years of torture at the hands of a human. She was willing to put aside her own fear and repulsion of humans due to MM and Forgath killing the man who hurt her BECAUSE he hurt her and because he managed to put aside his mistrust of monsters and see her as a person. Now she only travels with them to help her get the Jade Teapot. In comic time, they've only been together for a few days, maybe a couple weeks at most.
Cut to the end of the last battle - she's now lost the only physical item that reminds her of the cause of that trust, so she's confused. Add to that confusion that MM overreacted and grabbed the leash brought back a lot of terrible memories and the pain associated with them. To his credit, MM realized his error and tried to correct it as soon as he could, but the "damage" was already done.

I'm not sure she understands that what she's going through now is "Seeing" MinMax. She looks to be in denial and when you are working through huge emotional issues while feeling lost and unsure, logic doesn't really factor into your decisions, so she's operating on Auto-Pilot.

I'm hoping she realizes the truth very soon.

On a side note, THunt has already mentioned that this comic is going to continue for a few more years, so I don't think he'll get rid of ALL his main characters in the next few updates.

Brava THunt. Another well done, tear jerker update.

[Jochi]

My last attempt got lost in the ether somewhere, so if it shows up and this becomes a double-post, my apologies.
While we are blue-skying ridiculously unlikely "solutions", consider the fact that Minmax and Forgath just learned about two new liquids, and each is about to become rather "intimiately familiar" with one of them. Suppose Navigation Tea and Activation Tea are not magical in and of themselves, but merely particular blends that the Jade Teapot (itself able to exist simultaneously in multiple dimensions, since it can repeatedly be available as an award for a Maze winner, and extradimensionally aware, as it would have to be to navigate and teleport across dimensions) recognizes as triggers for its two functions. Then with the Anymug...
Talk about a campaign breaker. This would never happen in a campaign *I* DM'ed, unless the Anymug was left behind as a result, as the teacups are likely to be and we KNOW the Teapot will be.

[OddBird]

THUNT STOP IT YOU ARE HURTING MY HEART A LOT

[Quild]

My last attempt got lost in the ether somewhere, so if it shows up and this becomes a double-post, my apologies.
While we are blue-skying ridiculously unlikely "solutions", consider the fact that Minmax and Forgath just learned about two new liquids, and each is about to become rather "intimiately familiar" with one of them. Suppose Navigation Tea and Activation Tea are not magical in and of themselves, but merely particular blends that the Jade Teapot (itself able to exist simultaneously in multiple dimensions, since it can repeatedly be available as an award for a Maze winner, and extradimensionally aware, as it would have to be to navigate and teleport across dimensions) recognizes as triggers for its two functions. Then with the Anymug...
Talk about a campaign breaker. This would never happen in a campaign *I* DM'ed, unless the Anymug was left behind as a result, as the teacups are likely to be and we KNOW the Teapot will be.

Suppose that they are.

[Simon]

I thought so too, lieber Gurkenglas, but what do you think will happen if Minmax gets hurt outside the Maze of Many?
Will Kin feel it and teaport to him?
Or will she not feel it, as the MoM, and thus herself, is outside of time?

So many questions to be answered!
Please stay hooked to find out!

She'll not be able to experience anything that happens to him

----

I know it's been discussed and explained before by other people, but I'd like to add my input about the time/maze thing. From what I understand of the maze, time acts differently in there. I think it doesn't flow in the same 'direction' as time ouside the maze.
What I mean is, in both the maze and the rest of the universe, time passes at a rate of 1 second per second. But time does not pass outside the maze while in it.
This means whatever happens outside the maze is not happening at the same time as inside the maze, and vice versa.

I've made a graph to explain it (somewhat because I'm not really discussing anything novel and a nice graph will make it look like I'm adding more to the conversation, but mainly just because I felt like making a graph lol)

► Show Spoiler

Time passes in the world (black line), then they enter the maze and stop experiencing world time and start living in maze time (red line). Then they leave the maze and continue on (black line) in world time. The time in the maze could loop around or twist or whatever, but it shouldn't alter world time, and no world time has passed between entering and exting the maze.

So it's literally impossible (in my mind) that Kin would be able to feel Minmax outside the maze and Minmax would be unable to feel Kin while she was still inside. When Minmax "teapot's" out, he'll begin traveling down the black line again. When (if?) Kin leaves the maze, she'll begin traveling down the black line again at the exact same time Minmax does.

[BordeauxRow]

And another theory about "when the serpent becomes your prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate." (Yes I know it must be incredibly tiring to read about these, which is why I give you a fair warning to stop reading now



Assuming that in the Thuntverse they take "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" literally, MM and forgath will work together with Kore till Kin arrives..And the rest doesn't need explaining right? (Though for some reason I am expecting MM's Neigh invulnerable eyeball to catch an Arrow..)

[Krulle]

I thought so too, lieber Gurkenglas, but what do you think will happen if Minmax gets hurt outside the Maze of Many?
Will Kin feel it and teaport to him?
Or will she not feel it, as the MoM, and thus herself, is outside of time?

So many questions to be answered!
Please stay hooked to find out!

She'll not be able to experience anything that happens to him

----

I know it's been discussed and explained before by other people, but I'd like to add my input about the time/maze thing. From what I understand of the maze, time acts differently in there. I think it doesn't flow in the same 'direction' as time ouside the maze.
What I mean is, in both the maze and the rest of the universe, time passes at a rate of 1 second per second. But time does not pass outside the maze while in it.
This means whatever happens outside the maze is not happening at the same time as inside the maze, and vice versa.

I've made a graph to explain it (somewhat because I'm not really discussing anything novel and a nice graph will make it look like I'm adding more to the conversation, but mainly just because I felt like making a graph :P lol)

► Show Spoiler

Time passes in the world (black line), then they enter the maze and stop experiencing world time and start living in maze time (red line). Then they leave the maze and continue on (black line) in world time. The time in the maze could loop around or twist or whatever, but it shouldn't alter world time, and no world time has passed between entering and exting the maze.

So it's literally impossible (in my mind) that Kin would be able to feel Minmax outside the maze and Minmax would be unable to feel Kin while she was still inside. When Minmax "teapot's" out, he'll begin traveling down the black line again. When (if?) Kin leaves the maze, she'll begin traveling down the black line again at the exact same time Minmax does.

Nope.
The only indication of time manipulation we ever got, is when the maze resets, all remaining teams are set to the point in time where they entered the maze. (link)
Anything inside is undone. For the remaining groups.
But we don't know anything about time elapsing for the winning group.
It might well be, that the winning group moves forward normally in their dimension's time, so that time does have elapsed since they entered the MoM.

Oh, and we know you can't ever enter the MoM a second time (link).

But since the MoM is in it's own slice of time, which likely does not coincide with the outside universe, it is unlikely that Minmax or Kin feels anything of the other, as they are not in the same time... (link)

[Simon]

Nope.
The only indication of time manipulation we ever got, is when the maze resets, all remaining teams are set to the point in time where they entered the maze. (link)
Anything inside is undone. For the remaining groups.
But we don't know anything about time elapsing for the winning group.
It might well be, that the winning group moves forward normally in their dimension's time, so that time does have elapsed since they entered the MoM.

Oh, and we know you can't ever enter the MoM a second time (link).

But since the MoM is in it's own slice of time, which likely does not coincide with the outside universe, it is unlikely that Minmax or Kin feels anything of the other, as they are not in the same time... (link)

You have a point. There isn't anything saying that the winners are transported back at the same time they entered. I just assumed this would be the case.
If it isn't though, then theoretically, Kin could leave before Forgath and Minmax. If it took Forgath and Minmax an hour (for example) to complete the Maze, but the Kins messed about with the controls, reset the maze and ended up finishing their final run in half an hour, Kin could pop out of the maze early (but only if the maze works in the way that however long your final run is, that's how long after entering the maze, you exit).

That doesn't make sense to me, but it may be how the maze works. However, as the maze exists outside of time (OR more accurately, I'd say outside of the universe time, as time does pass in the maze) I still think you would exit the maze at the same time you enter.

[PatchworkBBC]

I've made a graph to explain it (somewhat because I'm not really discussing anything novel and a nice graph will make it look like I'm adding more to the conversation, but mainly just because I felt like making a graph lol)

Are you by any chance an engineer?

[Kamos]

Regardless of how time works the next update should be fascinating.
Stray thought here.
Why do they even want our Kin in their group?
Sapphire is a hell of an archer. Onyx is a spellcaster. Ruby is a highly skilled fighter. And all are extremely intelligent. So what does Kin even really bring to the table? I guess she's an empty slab to cultivate however you want in future runs but she doesn't have a whole lot in the way of distinguishing features.

[ChuckDaRighteous]

Thunt's tweet:

"Let me clarify. I'm not leaving the Min-Kin story arc now. Next update IS Min-Kin. Next update is ALSO the GAP.
01:01:42 AM November 12, 2013"

Any thoughts - because I have no idea how he'll manage to do this

My thought is that by some sort of unrealized effect of the maze, kin if forced to leave when the rest of her party is.

Time passes in the world (black line), then they enter the maze and stop experiencing world time and start living in maze time (red line). Then they leave the maze and continue on (black line) in world time. The time in the maze could loop around or twist or whatever, but it shouldn't alter world time, and no world time has passed between entering and exting the maze.

The problem with this (if used for a basis for why the arc isn't ending) is presumably the natural exit (and the exit you would have to take in order to keep the teapot) is the God's underling's sword. Which would separate Kin, so even if Kin spent more time in the maze but exited at the same time, she would have to make it to them. Which would mean forsaking her teapot in order to get to him. Even if she did somehow realize they see each other, would she really abandon her whole teapot quest and drink it, just for him?

[Simon]

I've made a graph to explain it (somewhat because I'm not really discussing anything novel and a nice graph will make it look like I'm adding more to the conversation, but mainly just because I felt like making a graph lol)

Are you by any chance an engineer?

No lol I used to have to do graphs and stuff in essays for biology at uni, and strangely I sort of miss doing that sort of stuff

Regardless of how time works the next update should be fascinating.
Stray thought here.
Why do they even want our Kin in their group?
Sapphire is a hell of an archer. Onyx is a spellcaster. Ruby is a highly skilled fighter. And all are extremely intelligent. So what does Kin even really bring to the table? I guess she's an empty slab to cultivate however you want in future runs but she doesn't have a whole lot in the way of distinguishing features.

I can't remember what they've already said in the comic, but in my mind she was just a convenient Kin. More Kins mean more smart people to work on problems. Our Kin doesn't seem particularly evil or aggressive, and she seems pretty smart, so when they saw her alone they probably thought "might aswell invite her along".

The problem with this (if used for a basis for why the arc isn't ending) is presumably the natural exit (and the exit you would have to take in order to keep the teapot) is the God's underling's sword. Which would separate Kin, so even if Kin spent more time in the maze but exited at the same time, she would have to make it to them. Which would mean forsaking her teapot in order to get to him. Even if she did somehow realize they see each other, would she really abandon her whole teapot quest and drink it, just for him?

I may have misunderstood, but I think in the next update the group will split. We may not see Kin, but the storylines for Minmax, Forgath and GAP will join up. In the 'real' world, I would say Minmax and Forgath would appear at the goblins at the same time Kin, exited the maze through the sword, after going through the maze a few more times (assuming she wants to come into this reality, and that she didn't use the teapot).
Kin would still be miles(?) away from Minmax even if they exited at the same time.

[Jochi]

My last attempt got lost in the ether somewhere, so if it shows up and this becomes a double-post, my apologies.
While we are blue-skying ridiculously unlikely "solutions", consider the fact that Minmax and Forgath just learned about two new liquids, and each is about to become rather "intimiately familiar" with one of them. Suppose Navigation Tea and Activation Tea are not magical in and of themselves, but merely particular blends that the Jade Teapot (itself able to exist simultaneously in multiple dimensions, since it can repeatedly be available as an award for a Maze winner, and extradimensionally aware, as it would have to be to navigate and teleport across dimensions) recognizes as triggers for its two functions. Then with the Anymug...
Talk about a campaign breaker. This would never happen in a campaign *I* DM'ed, unless the Anymug was left behind as a result, as the teacups are likely to be and we KNOW the Teapot will be.

Suppose that they are.

Then the Anymug can't recreated them and the whole speculation is moot. And they probably are and it probably is.

[T-RexWithTourettes]

THIS IS SO RELATABLE.
I'm sure we've all been in that position. "I'll do literally anything," until they say the worst possible thing...but you already promised. Damn.

[stevedj]

Psst. Wanna know a secret? Come closer... Closer... Next update, we return to the Goblin Adventuring Party.
11:30 PM - 11 Nov 13

Let me clarify. I'm not leaving the Min-Kin story arc now. Next update IS Min-Kin. Next update is ALSO the GAP.
12:01 AM - 12 Nov 13

As for the next update featuring KinMax and GAP... technically it could just be KinMax in the beginning (then teleport) and GAP in the end of the strip. And Kin doesn't need to teleport with the duo right away, after all, she'll be outside of the flow of time while in MoM. So she can think it all through, pick a class, level up a bit, find a decent man, marry him, have children and then still return to her reality at the same moment as MM and Forgath.

My predicition is she'll realize she "sees" him when she feels the heat of the tea in her mouth when Minmax drinks it.

I'm leaning in the same direction. Though, I'm also thinking that as MinMax drinks, it will take a few seconds to fully activate. We may see the teleportation beginning... Forgath and MM starting to fade... as Kin finally recognizes why she is feeling this way -- and she blurts out "I see you!" as they disappear. Final frames are with the GAP, and an emotionally-regenerated MinMax calls out his expected line to Names.

[PatchworkBBC]

THIS IS SO RELATABLE.
I'm sure we've all been in that position. "I'll do literally anything," until they say the worst possible thing...but you already promised. Damn.

I've never been in that position, but I am a cold, unfeeling, soulless automaton.