Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

[Feytala]

If you want the newbie experience, one option is to play a character with ECL 7 but no class levels; I can help you figure out some such creatures (offhand, black and copper dragon hatchlings, araneas, half-dragon bugbears and half-celestial or half-fiend lizardfolk come to mind; all have no class levels, and a centaur or phrenic bugbear with one class level also work). This way, you could be brand-new to the world but potent enough to hold your own. Alternatively if you just want a lower power level, I could try to set up two games running in parallel where you'd fight the minions of the big boss while other characters fight the boss himself, or just make you the sidekick of the stronger character who earns XP much faster from the dangers they face together and eventually catches up.

Not really. I like Spellcasting Classes, mostly wizards - And even a little multiclassing is pure poison for them if you want them to be really good in their field. (At least this I know optimisation-wise - Don't loose Spellcasting levels.^^). Hitdice would make it even more troublesome. If I could settle for a fighting class, maybe, but not with my current concepts... Have to think on that.

The PCs are always unique, because they're the PCs; that's how that works. They don't have inherently better capabilities; they just lead a bit more of a charmed life and have interesting things tend to happen to them with unusual regularity. Kind of like celebrities and politicians and so forth in our world; there isn't that dramatic a difference between Cameron Diaz and any random reasonably-attractive woman off the street, it's just that Cam has had opportunities to enhance her natural talents and seize the limelight so that she can be celebrated for her uniqueness, while other women that are just as pretty, just as talented, and just as unique are lucky to get a small part in an off-Broadway play, just because they haven't had quite the luck or made the right connections or for a thousand other reasons.

Mmmh... Okay. I just don't feel why WE should make a difference. (Why hire adventurers as a noble, when you have a few soldiers who can exactly do whta they can, are more loyal and more easy to control...? But I think I can come to terms with that part...

At last I think, maybe your game is to open for me. I need more borders on which I can hold myself in an RPG as heavy-ruled as D&D and considering a world that at least holds that many different races and cultures.

Okay, that part sort of makes sense to me, but can you elaborate on what you mean? If you need a bit more structure I might be able to provide it, but I'm not clear on whether that is in fact what you're asking for here.

Well... Ahm... You allow basically all races, all classes, you want to say nothing on the world, so I am veeeeeerrry reluctant to actually include me with an NPC, or even come from a major city. I mean, I would have to know how things are running in the world. I am a player that likes much background, so he can play his character and know to the spot where this character grew up, what gods are worshiped there, what important figures are there, which races have which relations to each other, etc... Then, I have so far found about 20 Base Classes alone and while I most likely will stick with one of the base classes (Wizard for most things, because divine magic seems so common these days... ) or throw a level or two of another in, it is... Much. Then about hundreds of feats, dozens of Prestige Classes... I'd never thought that I ever say such a thing, but I wished you'd be a little more restrictiv. (You know... Banning at least some options...^^┬░).

Also I am considering me kind of boring when I hear of Werebear-Paladins, Spider-worshipping scientific Druids and so on, while I just think of a) Someone who is hiding and searching a place for herself or b) A somewhat wild and tomboyish Human or Elven Wizardress..

You don't have to be too unusual; I can help you pick out a few small tricks that can help you stand out while still feeling somewhat "normal". A Devotion Feat, say, or a few Skill Tricks, or a decent standing in some Affiliation...there's lots of bells and whistles that you can use to punch up a character without changing them too much.

Yes, that would be very helpfull indeed, thanks. I'll send you am PM in the direction of what kinds of character I "usually" enjoy (Kind of sticking to my roots if on new terrain... ).

Also I tried to build a character and to tell the truth, while I read many books in the last few days, I am just overwhelmed by the mass. PHB (3.5 anf PF), MM, Complete Series, Unearthed Arcana, a few Dragon Magazines at which I was pointed when asked for help and thats only the top of the mountain...

Hey, you can let me do some of that work for you; I actually really get off on it. Give me a vague idea of what sort of character you want to play, and I can use my moderate "system mastery" to help you build it. Going off what you said before, a Transmuter with the Animal Companion ACF from Unearthed Arcana, possibly going into a PrC such as Daggerspell Mage, sounds like it might get at some of the flavor you're after - and that's completely just off the top of my head, i swear it. I know things, seriously; save yourself the exhaustion of doing all that legwork when I'll be happy to tackle much of it, just as a cure for my own boredom.

As I wrote, I just need a few more guidelines. I found a few features I like, and have (For the three-four concepts which are swimming in my head currently) a few ideas, while for some I am missing kind of... Don't know. Call it "a spark".

I have the feeling, that my lack of competence in this matters could cut the fun of others... And the last thing I want is to steal someones fun.

Don't sell yourself short. We as conscientious "geeks" may fear the limelight, but if we can overcome our shyness and work together, we can bring ourselves to whole new heights of fun. (Not for the first time, I wish this forum had a "hug" function so I could give out encouragement more succinctly.)

Awwwwh... Thats nice. Okay, I'll try to hang on.

[willpell]

Not really. I like Spellcasting Classes, mostly wizards - And even a little multiclassing is pure poison for them if you want them to be really good in their field. (At least this I know optimisation-wise - Don't loose Spellcasting levels.^^). Hitdice would make it even more troublesome. If I could settle for a fighting class, maybe, but not with my current concepts... Have to think on that.

There are creatures with built-in spellcasting; you lose caster levels, but not all of them. An Aranea is a 7th-level character who has 3 levels of sorcerer and 5 d10 hit dice; the result is very comparable to a human Fighter 4 / Sorcerer 3, and actual sorcerer levels stack with the effective ones. 1st-level spells instead of 3rds is something of a big deal, no lie - but you get so much better BAB and HD, and the gap will narrow as you rise in levels - once you're a Sorcerer 15 instead of a Sorcerer 20 (I allow LA buyoff, so at sorcerer level 6, you can reduce your LA to +1, and at sorcerer level 9, you can eliminate it; it costs a sizeable chunk of XP but its obviously worth it.), you won't be missing a lot, and the HD will help ensure you live long enough to get there. Driders are another example of a class which can auto-cast as a Sorcerer, Wizard or Cleric, though at ECL 10 they're a bit above our current weight class. For a much less physical version of the whole concept, the Unbodied are a Telepath 4 that's permanently incorporeal and can look like anything for ECL 8. I'm sure others can be found with a bit of snooping; heck, I'm almost advanced enough to try and homebrew something. Not quite, but almost.

Mmmh... Okay. I just don't feel why WE should make a difference. (Why hire adventurers as a noble, when you have a few soldiers who can exactly do whta they can, are more loyal and more easy to control...? But I think I can come to terms with that part...

Yeah, the adventure hooks need to be a bit less cliche, but I've had little trouble. Figure the character is just sort of a soldier of fortune, stumbling across trouble the way action heroes always do.

Well... Ahm... You allow basically all races, all classes, you want to say nothing on the world, so I am veeeeeerrry reluctant to actually include me with an NPC, or even come from a major city. I mean, I would have to know how things are running in the world. I am a player that likes much background, so he can play his character and know to the spot where this character grew up, what gods are worshiped there, what important figures are there, which races have which relations to each other, etc... Then, I have so far found about 20 Base Classes alone and while I most likely will stick with one of the base classes (Wizard for most things, because divine magic seems so common these days... ) or throw a level or two of another in, it is... Much. Then about hundreds of feats, dozens of Prestige Classes... I'd never thought that I ever say such a thing, but I wished you'd be a little more restrictiv. (You know... Banning at least some options...^^┬░).

Hm. Yeah, I see where you're coming from on that. I do have the kind of detail that you're looking for, but it's not visible until you zoom in on one particular thing. Perhaps you should lurk for a bit while I set up other people's games, and once you see how I worldbuild you can pick what parts interest you.

while for some I am missing kind of... Don't know. Call it "a spark".

Ah, the curse of fickle Mistress Inspiration...I know it well. Just keep rattling those ideas around, one of these days they're certain to I find that it helps to think of movies and music that I enjoy, latch onto a detail and expand it into uncharted waters, but of course there's no guarantee my method works for anyone but me.

[CelineSSauve]

I have things due the next two days, then will be heading out of town for three days.

You aren't by any chance going to a sci-fi convention in Minnesota, are you?

Nope. Easter weekend.

I'm relatively sure that my first experience at a live Con (GenCon 2010) will be my last.

[Nerre]

I am interessted in playing, but i cannot read three pages with sooo many rules. Can you please do one post summarizing where the game is not according to the basic rules? Cause I would simply like to use
http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm
to generate my char. Therefore I need to know for example the starting points and levels or what races are allowed. Exotic creatures yes-no?

In another game I created an centauer ranger, just to be told after that he does not allow that race. :/

[CelineSSauve]

Cause I would simply like to use
http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm

Good idea, for a first draft, at least...

My comments are in {these}.

► Show Spoiler

Adofaer
Male Half-Elf Sorcerer 3 / Favored Soul 4
Lawful Neutral
Representing C├®line .S. Sauv├®

Strength 9 (-1)
Dexterity 10 (+0)
Constitution 10 (+0)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 17 (+3)
Charisma 17 (+3)
Size: Medium
Height: 5' 4"
Weight: 130 lb
Skin: Tan
Eyes: Hazel
Hair: Light Brown
Total Hit Points: 33

Speed: 30 feet

Armor Class: 10

Touch AC: 10
Flat-footed: 10
Initiative modifier: +0 = +0 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: +5 = 5 [base]
Reflex save: +5 = 5 [base]
Will save: +10 = 7 [base] +3 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld): +3 = 4 [base] -1 [strength]
Attack (unarmed): +3 = 4 [base] -1 [strength]
Attack (missile): +4 = 4 [base]
Grapple check: +3 = 4 [base] -1 [strength]

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
30 lb. or less
31-60 lb.
61-90 lb.
90 lb.
180 lb.
450 lb.

Languages: Common Elven {Whatever Race first "kept" him}

No familiar yet

Feats:

{Lv1 Feat/Flaw thingy... The flinching thing and...maybe Eschew Materials? For the other Feat, something Half-Elf based would interest me most.}
Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) [hand-edit as needed]
Practiced Spellcaster (Favored Soul) [hand-edit as needed]

Traits:

Skill Name
Key
Ability
Skill
Modifier
Ability
Modifier
Ranks
Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 1 =
+1
Balance Dex* 0 =
+0
Bluff Cha 3 =
+3
Climb Str* -1 =
-1
Concentration Con 6 =
+0
+6
Craft_1 Int 1 =
+1
Craft_2 Int 1 =
+1
Craft_3 Int 1 =
+1
Diplomacy Cha 5 =
+3
+2 [half-elf]
Disguise Cha 3 =
+3
Escape Artist Dex* 0 =
+0
Forgery Int 1 =
+1
Gather Information Cha 5 =
+3
+2 [half-elf]
Heal Wis 6 =
+3
+3
Hide Dex* 0 =
+0
Intimidate Cha 3 =
+3
Jump Str* -1 =
-1
Knowledge (arcana) Int 7 =
+1
+6
Knowledge (religion) Int 7 =
+1
+6
Listen Wis 4 =
+3
+1 [half-elf]
Move Silently Dex* 0 =
+0
Perform_1 Cha 3 =
+3
Perform_2 Cha 3 =
+3
Perform_3 Cha 3 =
+3
Perform_4 Cha 3 =
+3
Perform_5 Cha 3 =
+3
Ride Dex 0 =
+0
Search Int 2 =
+1
+1 [half-elf]
Sense Motive Wis 6 =
+3
+3
Spellcraft Int 9 =
+1
+6 +2 [Knowledge, arcane]
Spot Wis 4 =
+3
+1 [half-elf]
Survival Wis 3 =
+3
Swim Str** -1 =
-1
Use Rope Dex 0 =
+0
* = check penalty for wearing armor

Zero-level Sorcerer spells: 6 per day



First-level Sorcerer spells: 6 (5+1) per day



Zero-level Favored Soul spells: 6 per day



First-level Favored Soul spells: 7 (6+1) per day



Second-level Favored Soul spells: 4 (3+1) per day



Half-Elf:

Immune to magical sleep

+2 racial bonus on saves vs. enchantments

Low-light vision (darkvision if half-drow)

+1 racial bonus on listen, search, and spot checks

+2 racial bonus on diplomacy and gather information checks

Favored Soul:
Sect weapon focus (level 3)

Energy resistance, first type (level 5)

Energy resistance, second type (level 10)

Sect weapon specialization (level 12)

Energy resistance, third type (level 15) (level 3)

Wings?! (level 17)

Damage Reduction (level 20)

Sorcerer:
Familiar / Alertness, etc.

Can know only limited numbers of spells

High charisma gains bonus spells daily

Class HP rolled {This was done by the program,so I can roll things elsewhere, if you'd like.}
Level 1: Favored Soul 8
Level 2: Sorcerer 3
Level 3: Favored Soul 6
Level 4: Sorcerer 3 +1 to wisdom {Did this off the top of my head. I will be taking the +1 to STR to remove the penalty at Lv12. That is also when I'll likely buy off the Flaw.}
Level 5: Favored Soul 7
Level 6: Sorcerer 2
Level 7: Favored Soul 4

Adofaer's Equipment:
Spell component pouch {Unneeded is Eschew Materials is a Lv1 Feat.}

[Nioca]

Okay, so my character creation has hit a bit of a roadblock. I don't want to play a human this time, but none of the base races fit all too well, and I only really have access to the SRD. And the only monstrous race that fits too well is the Rakshasa, which, as a player character, would be so broken as to be hilarious (seriously, the stat adjustment alone would result in the character having an additional +11 worth of modifiers spread across all stats, and that's before you factor in the 15 points of DR, the 9 points of natural armor, the freakish spell resistance, the fighter-level BAB, or, best yet, how sorcerer class levels actually STACK with the Rakshasa-based racial HD for determining the spells you get and your caster level). Seeing as I try to not play what I as a GM would never in a million years allow, that leaves me with Aasimar, which is just a bit too humany, seeing as I wanted something non-human this time.

So my question is this: Would it be possible to port over a race from the Pathfinder SRD? I've got my eye on Kitsune, since it has the right blend of stat bonuses and abilities to support my concept.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the BAB in my anti-rakshasa-as-player-rant.

[Nerre]

I wanted to play a centaur ranger this time, would that be okay? It also got many bonuses, not as much as a Rakshasa, but enough. If Nioca is into exotic races too, maybe we both could be some if she want. A little flock of centaurs. XD

[CelineSSauve]

Okay, so my character creation has hit a bit of a roadblock. I don't want to play a human this time, but none of the base races fit all too well, and I only really have access to the SRD. And the only monstrous race that fits too well is the Rakshasa, which, as a player character, would be so broken as to be hilarious (seriously, the stat adjustment alone would result in the character having an additional +11 worth of modifiers spread across all stats, and that's before you factor in the 15 points of DR, the 9 points of natural armor, the freakish spell resistance, the fighter-level BAB, or, best yet, how sorcerer class levels actually STACK with the Rakshasa-based racial HD for determining the spells you get and your caster level).

That is an EL +7 Race, you know. So you'd have only your species and no Class at Lv7. Though, that last point, yeah. If you're going Sorcerer that would give you a boost.

I once played a Lizardfolk Sorcerer. He was a blast. Was supposed to become a Dragon Disciple, in time.

[Amara]

I am interessted in playing, but i cannot read three pages with sooo many rules. Can you please do one post summarizing where the game is not according to the basic rules?

Seconding this, though it was there for most of the discussion. It would be handy to have.


Also is there a definite start time + level now? And I'm unsure if the werebear idea was still ok, or no. (The only reason I mentioned the bear levels was so I could make him more feasible in case of a lower level campaign augh, I wouldn't mind giving up the last HD and large size for example (or the last two, meaning giving up large size along with the extra bit of bear form strength and armor) but I'd need at least up to the 4th HD that grants improved grab to really be useful as a bear at all.) Willpell, would it be better if I PMed you to work things out?

I have a few other ideas still too if that's not ok. Most of them I've somewhat shelved, since it looks like you guys need something with HP!

Sorry I've been so safsdgfgjghjhgj the past few days. Classes have been manic, and I was sick to boot. :c

[Nioca]

[...] Rakshasa, which, as a player character, would be so broken as to be hilarious (seriously, the stat adjustment alone would result in the character having an additional +11 worth of modifiers spread across all stats, and that's before you factor in the 15 points of DR, the 9 points of natural armor, the freakish spell resistance, the fighter-level BAB, or, best yet, how sorcerer class levels actually STACK with the Rakshasa-based racial HD for determining the spells you get and your caster level).

That is an EL +7 Race, you know. So you'd have only your species and no Class at Lv7.

That's not exactly a drawback when your species casts spells as a 7th level sorcerer and has a fighter's BAB.

Anyway, I took the liberty to work out what a Kitsune's stat block would look like under D&D 3.5; its wording might be a bit off, but IMHO, the mechanical side of things compares reasonably with the core races.

► Show Spoiler

Kitsune are humanoid with the Shapechanger subtype.
-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, kitsune have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
A kitsuneÔÇÖs base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision
Racial Skills: Kitsune are naturally acrobatic, and have a +2 racial bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks. In addition, Kitsune gain a +10 bonus to disguise checks to appear as a specific human when using their shapeshifting abilities.
Natural Weapons: Bite (1d4)
Change Shape (Su): A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.
Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/dayÔÇödancing lights.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Celestial, Elven, Gnome
Favored Class: Bard.

Since we've got a couple of LA-elevated characters in the works, I'm also thinking of maybe applying the Celestial Creature template; It'd give him a bit more bite (literally! ) when compared to the werebear and centaur.

Actually, speaking of LA, the SRD suggests that LA also increases your starting wealth to a level equal to you ECL. Am I reading that right?

[ThroughTheWell]

Rakasha? Is the LA7 in addition to 7 levels of HD, or does that include the HD?

Oh, I think I finaly settled on a char build, but I need to type it in and PM it.

[Nioca]

The LA7 is in addition to the 7 HD, resulting in an ECL of 14.

[CelineSSauve]

Anyway, I took the liberty to work out what a Kitsune's stat block would look like under D&D 3.5; its wording might be a bit off, but IMHO, the mechanical side of things compares reasonably with the core races.
[snip]
Since we've got a couple of LA-elevated characters in the works, I'm also thinking of maybe applying the Celestial Creature template; It'd give him a bit more bite (literally! ) when compared to the werebear and centaur.

Ooh... Hey, shapeshifter.

Do you want to be the one who purchased Ado and freed him a few days later? He'd never have to ICly know! (And since you're a Celestial, Adofaer's Favoured Soul could be in relation to whatever Diety you're connected to!)

I don't think the fact that the original NPC was an Elf makes a huge difference to his backstory, so I could change that to a Human easily.

---

Rakasha? Is the LA7 in addition to 7 levels of HD, or does that include the HD?

Oh, I think I finaly settled on a char build, but I need to type it in and PM it.

The LA7 is in addition to the 7 HD, resulting in an ECL of 14.

No. It would be a Lv7 PC, so long as it doesn't have 7 levels of a Class. And it's ECL is whatever is listed in that list, if I recall hos 3.5 works.

[willpell]

I am interessted in playing, but i cannot read three pages with sooo many rules.

It's mostly been discussion more than rules. But on that subject: I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but half-elves and half-orcs in my game get the bonus skill points of a Human (not the Feat). This makes half-elves, who retain all their skill bonuses per RAW, pretty much the ultimate race for skill-heavy characters in my game. And it makes half-orcs, well, not completely useless.

Cause I would simply like to use
http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm
to generate my char.

Javascript makes me nervous....

In another game I created an centauer ranger, just to be told after that he does not allow that race. :/

I like centaurs; as an ECL 6 race (so a Ranger 1 would be ECL 7), they're only appropriate in somewhat higher-level games, but that might be what we're doing.

Mostly talking to Celine here, so spoilered for length:

► Show Spoiler

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
30 lb. or less
31-60 lb.
61-90 lb.
90 lb.
180 lb.
450 lb.

Something didn't go quite right there....

Languages: Common Elven {Whatever Race first "kept" him}

You mentioned a dwarf at one point...

{Lv1 Feat/Flaw thingy... The flinching thing and...maybe Eschew Materials?

That'll work just fine, the components are a nuisance. The "flinching thing" is properly titled Vulnerable.

For the other Feat, something Half-Elf based would interest me most.}

Races of Destiny recommends these feats for half-elves:
* Complementary Insight - skill synergies are +3 rather than +2.
* Sociable Personality - Your Diplomacy and Gather Info skill checks all get a free reroll if you want it (the second roll stands even if it's worse).
* Heroic Destiny - 1/day add 1d6 to pretty much any d20 roll (before rolling); prerequisite to some other destiny feats, but you'd be getting those late since you need Practiced Spellcaster and possibly Leadership for your next several feat slots.
* Human Heritage - not sure what this will do in my campaign, since its most obvious effect is an extra 4 skill points at first level, and my half-elves already get that (so I'd have to rule that they don't get it again from the feat). It might have value in some obscure build but nothing I can think of.
* Diverse Background - this one is only useful for heavy multiclassers so don't worry about it.

Skill Name
Key
Ability
Skill
Modifier
Ability
Modifier
Ranks
Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 1 =
+1
Balance Dex* 0 =
+0
Bluff Cha 3 =
+3

Once again this didn't quite work. It goes on like this but I'm snipping the rest; hopefully you can see the problem.
Couple issues on the skills; there are certain "baked-in" penalties that the rules don't mention as up-frontly as they should.
* Craft skills always take -2 unless you have a 5-gp set of artisan tools for the craft; for 50 gp you can get a masterwork tool which is worth +2 instead. A few crafts such as Alchemy and Poisonmaking require a more expensive kit, which I think is 100 gp normal and 500 gp masterwork.
* Disable Device and Open Lock likewise require thieves' tools to avoid a -2 penalty; these are 30 gp, or 100 gp for masterwork and a +2 bonus.
* Ride checks take a whopping -5 bonus if you don't use a saddle. Riding something other than a horse or dog requires an exotic saddle, which is 30 gp; normal saddles are 20 gp. A military saddle is about 50 gp and gives you a +2 bonus, but only to checks related to staying in the saddle.

If I read this right, you've purchased the following skill ranks:

Concentration 6
Heal 3
Knowledge (arcana) 6
Knowledge (religion) 6
Sense Motive 3
Spellcraft Int 6

So that's 24 skill ranks, but as a level 7 character with +1 INT and two low-skills classes, you should have started 30 skill points (12 at first level and 3 each for the next six levels), plus as I said you get more for being human, bringing the total to 40. Also, Concentration should be a class skill for both Sorc and FS, and it's strongly recommended that you max that out, unless you like losing your spells when someone whacks you in the middle of casting. At level 7 you can have as many as 10 ranks in a skill which is in-class for both classes, and this would be a very good place to do that.

And the only monstrous race that fits too well is the Rakshasa, which, as a player character, would be so broken as to be hilarious

As others have already pointed out, Rakshasa have not only +7 LA but seven Hit Dice, so a Rakshasa is at bare minimum an ECL 14 character. Way above our current level. If we were playing at that level I'd probably be fine with Rakshasas as PCs; having 7 levels of sorcerer casting instead of 14 means that the advantages are probably not anything close to overpowered, though certainly they're helpful.

Seeing as I try to not play what I as a GM would never in a million years allow, that leaves me with Aasimar, which is just a bit too humany, seeing as I wanted something non-human this time.

Okay, another of my houserules to bring up - in my game I replaced the Aasimar with a slightly altered version called the Heivolk (the name is German and so better reflects the counterpart Tiefling). The main differences are that the Heivolk have -2 to Strength, but instead of Paladin, their favored class is Marshal, from the Miniatures Handbook. Thusly, they're not necessarily Good, just as Tieflings are not always Evil - but they are nearly always gregarious, surrounding themselves with companions or followers who can benefit from their Marshal aura...which is Charisma-powered and thus directly benefits from their racial bonus to that stat. The Aasimar never had a racial Paragon Class in the book Unearthed Arcana, but Tieflings do have one, and I'm planning to eventually brew up a version for the Heivolk.

So my question is this: Would it be possible to port over a race from the Pathfinder SRD? I've got my eye on Kitsune, since it has the right blend of stat bonuses and abilities to support my concept.

Hm. I'll take a look at get back to you. Meanwhile, consider other options. (As stated before, Centaur would work. Also, if you're into Elementals, I have my own homebrew versions of the Genasi from Forgotten Realms, which I didn't like as-written and so adjusted to suit my preferences. Lemme know if you want the details.)

Also is there a definite start time now?

Nope, no set schedule; we'll start whenever anyone (most notably me) is ready to do so.

And I'm unsure if the werebear idea was still ok, or no. (The only reason I mentioned the bear levels was so I could make him more feasible in case of a lower level campaign augh, I wouldn't mind giving up the last HD and large size for example, but I'd need at least up to the 4th HD that grants improved grab to really be useful as a bear at all.) Willpell, would it be better if I PMed you to work things out?

I would just as soon people didn't fill up my PM inbox, which I think only allows like 75 messages and I've got probably 20 now...if you don't need to keep something secret I'd prefer you put it here. If people are finding this thread difficult to read, I'll see about creating some more topical threads (in the forum I'm used to playing on, each game has an entire sub-board to itself, so this one is taking some getting used to).

Kitsune are humanoid with the Shapechanger subtype.
-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, kitsune have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
A kitsuneÔÇÖs base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision
Racial Skills: Kitsune are naturally acrobatic, and have a +2 racial bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks. In addition, Kitsune gain a +10 bonus to disguise checks to appear as a specific human when using their shapeshifting abilities.
Natural Weapons: Bite (1d4)
Change Shape (Su): A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.
Kitsune Magic (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like ability: 3/dayÔÇödancing lights.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Celestial, Elven, Gnome
Favored Class: Bard.

This looks like an LA +1 race, though that can be bought off with XP. You'd end up a level 6 character with almost enough XP to level up (technically, you're supposed to earn more XP while leveling up after LA buyoff, but I've never been able to wrap my head around the equation, so I would just give you the same starting XP as everyone else, though you'd gain a little more with each play station and eventually the gap would close at least partially). It's not very powerful, but +2 Dexterity and +2 Charisma, with only -2 Strength is definitely a bit above the human or halfling level (in general, Strength and Charisma are considered the two weakest Abilities, while Dexterity is one of the two or three best), with a wimpy natural attack, a wimpy SLA, and a minor boost to their spellcasting powers. I havent' side-by-sided it with the Gnome who is probably pretty close to the same potency, so perhaps I'm being a little stingy, but I'm inclined to be a little harsh on rules that didn't come from either my books or my brain. LA +1 isn't too punishing, and I think it's fair even when the race is just barely above the median.

Since we've got a couple of LA-elevated characters in the works, I'm also thinking of maybe applying the Celestial Creature template; It'd give him a bit more bite (literally! ) when compared to the werebear and centaur.

Celestial is a terrible, terrible, awful weak template that gives you virtually nothing and costs LA +2. A 1/day Smite, 5+HD SR (when Drow get 11+HD), and 5 points of resistance to a couple of energy types are NOT worth as much as two freaking class levels. Even with LA buyoff, a Celestial Human or Elf would be level 9 before they'd shed the burden - and it's cumulative with the LA +1 I was talking about assigning to the Kitsune (though since I was on the fence about that, I might be able to compromise), which would then mean you'd never catch up until level 18. It's really not likely to be worth it, which is a shame because I like the general concept of the template.

If you want to get the same flavor, you can play a Half-Celestial, but that's LA +4 so it really cuts into your class abilities, though at least you get something for it (major stat boosts, a high flight speed, and a set of SLAs which increase with later levels). Unfortunately LA +4 is impossible to ever completely buy off in a non-epic game; you can reduce it by 1 after your 12th class level, and then that's it. Despite this, however, it's still vastly preferable to Celestial.

Actually, speaking of LA, the SRD suggests that LA also increases your starting wealth to a level equal to you ECL. Am I reading that right?

Correct. You get WBL based on your ECL, according to anything I've ever seen. (The WBL system is wonky and I strongly dislike it as-is, but for now I'm leaving it alone for fear of breaking something if I monkey with it.)

Ooh... Hey, shapeshifter.

Not really; they can look human, but only as one specific human. If they could assume multiple human identities, they'd need a lot more than LA +1.

No. It would be a Lv7 PC, so long as it doesn't have 7 levels of a Class..

You are mistaken; Nioca had the right of it. A Rakshasa is more or less born as a multiclass Fighter 7 / Sorcerer 7, although its BAB is slightly lower in exchange for having claw attacks and SR and so forth. It would be absurdly broken if you could play it at ECL 7, but you can't. Believe me, I've studied the monsters-as-PCs rules fairly extensively; they are not forgiving.

[Amara]

I would just as soon people didn't fill up my PM inbox, which I think only allows like 75 messages and I've got probably 20 now...if you don't need to keep something secret I'd prefer you put it here. If people are finding this thread difficult to read, I'll see about creating some more topical threads (in the forum I'm used to playing on, each game has an entire sub-board to itself, so this one is taking some getting used to).

Fair enough, and no, no reason to keep anything secret. In the game with the were serval the DM did keep it from the other players... which led to a delightfully shocking moment when we almost died (my rogue was one of two people in the party not presently paralyzed,) only for him to suddenly shift and start tearing things to shreds. It wound up absurdly (hilariously) overkill for the fight, since he was actually slightly smaller in hybrid, without changing size class... so I didn't lose any of my armor. o_o ...that was an odd game. I also had the most health in the party AS THE ROGUE until we finally got a paladin.

Hnm, have we decided a starting level yet? Also, what are your opinions as far as deities? Do you allow homebrew deities, and deities from other settings, or is it very strictly bound to the setting's canon? I've been eying Ilmater (more specifically the old portfolio/domains,) but can easily find a different deity.

[willpell]

Hnm, have we decided a starting level yet?

It hasn't been formally pinned down, but it looks like Level 7 is about where most people are aiming for. Feytala seemed to prefer a lower start, I may end up doing two parallel games (or just letting one player be a lot more fragile but earn XP faster, perhaps crafting items for themself to keep from being too weak) where one is level 7 and the other is lower.

Also, what are your opinions as far as deities? Do you allow homebrew deities, and deities from other settings, or is it very strictly bound to the setting's canon? I've been eying Ilmater (more specifically the old portfolio/domains,) but can easily find a different deity.

I mostly use the D&D "default" pantheon, which is a more generic version of Greyhawk's, and I in turn have expanded on it with my own perspective. I have a few homebrew deities of my own, but they're not really fully fleshed out, and I'm somewhat disinclined to allow other people's made-up stuff, unless they have a *really* good pitch for filling a hole in my roster.

Ilmater has a direct equivalent in the Book of Exalted Deeds, named Phieran. If you'd like to have your character devoted to him, I'm totally cool with that, although I haven't done a full update to the BOXD stuff, so things like extra domains and Devotion Feats are not equally available for post-core sources...I may have to make some spot-rulings, but we can work it out.

[CelineSSauve]

► Show Spoiler

Mostly talking to Celine here, so spoilered for length:

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
30 lb. or less
31-60 lb.
61-90 lb.
90 lb.
180 lb.
450 lb.

Something didn't go quite right there....

Yeah, as I'd said, first draft. I figured I'd have to redo some of the math on that thing.

Languages: Common Elven {Whatever Race first "kept" him}

You mentioned a dwarf at one point...

The Dwarven merchant was not his first Master, but if his previous ones were Elven in nature, then that would work, sure.

{Lv1 Feat/Flaw thingy... The flinching thing and...maybe Eschew Materials?

That'll work just fine, the components are a nuisance. The "flinching thing" is properly titled Vulnerable.

That does ring a bell

For the other Feat, something Half-Elf based would interest me most.}

Looks like

* Heroic Destiny - 1/day add 1d6 to pretty much any d20 roll (before rolling); prerequisite to some other destiny feats, but you'd be getting those late since you need Practiced Spellcaster and possibly Leadership for your next several feat slots.

would be the best fit for the Favoured Soul thing.

Once again this didn't quite work. It goes on like this but I'm snipping the rest; hopefully you can see the problem.
Couple issues on the skills; there are certain "baked-in" penalties that the rules don't mention as up-frontly as they should.
* Craft skills always take -2 unless you have a 5-gp set of artisan tools for the craft; for 50 gp you can get a masterwork tool which is worth +2 instead. A few crafts such as Alchemy and Poisonmaking require a more expensive kit, which I think is 100 gp normal and 500 gp masterwork.
* Disable Device and Open Lock likewise require thieves' tools to avoid a -2 penalty; these are 30 gp, or 100 gp for masterwork and a +2 bonus.
* Ride checks take a whopping -5 bonus if you don't use a saddle. Riding something other than a horse or dog requires an exotic saddle, which is 30 gp; normal saddles are 20 gp. A military saddle is about 50 gp and gives you a +2 bonus, but only to checks related to staying in the saddle.

That's fine. Except for perhaps riding, I don't see Ado ever using those Skills.

If I read this right, you've purchased the following skill ranks:

Concentration 6
Heal 3
Knowledge (arcana) 6
Knowledge (religion) 6
Sense Motive 3
Spellcraft Int 6

Yeah... That is 30 ranks? 6*4=24 + 3*2=6 = 30.
You'd said he would get an extra skill point in your setting, though, so that would also change the numbers.
I suppose I could remove the Sense Motive ranks and bump concentration a bit. It's supposed to reflect the fact that until a few days ago ICly, he's never even cast a spell!

Ooh... Hey, shapeshifter.

Not really; they can look human, but only as one specific human. If they could assume multiple human identities, they'd need a lot more than LA +1.

Ah, darn. I was hoping to pull someone into at least a slight connection with my (apparently only "normal") PC.

No. It would be a Lv7 PC, so long as it doesn't have 7 levels of a Class..

You are mistaken; Nioca had the right of it. A Rakshasa is more or less born as a multiclass Fighter 7 / Sorcerer 7, although its BAB is slightly lower in exchange for having claw attacks and SR and so forth. It would be absurdly broken if you could play it at ECL 7, but you can't. Believe me, I've studied the monsters-as-PCs rules fairly extensively; they are not forgiving.

Ah, okay. I'd missed the 7HD above. I've only played a handful of monster PCs over the years.

EDIT: I'm also open to any Lawful Neutral Deity to be the source of Ado's FS powers.

[Feytala]

While working on my options... As a native german, I've searched the last hours for it... I don't think there is such a thing as a "Heivolk", willpell ^^┬░ Sure you didn't spell that wrong ?


Also... Hrmmm... That could nearly get me to actually play an Half-Elf... Ah, well, no... The elves still get that nifty "Automatic roll for secret doors/walls"-thing and humans a feat... I'll more likely be a quarter Elf/Human, just for fluff and choose the numbers of one of the two races... But the Tiefling looks great for a wizard if Level-Buyoff is allowed... If I just wouldn't be that inclined to be pretty...

[CelineSSauve]

If I just wouldn't be that inclined to be pretty...

Whaaaa?

This is the image I was going to use as the avatar for a CHA based Cleric. She is very pretty

► Show Spoiler

[Nioca]

Regarding Kitsune as LA+1: I can see where you're coming from (especially on wanting to err on the side of harshness), but personally, I don't think they quite warrant an LA+1. I'd place them on the same playing field as a gnome or dwarf; Dwarves have a far larger array of bonuses (some situational), and Gnomes are fairly similar but have additional save bonuses and more versatile SLAs. Kitsune have none of the save bonuses, situational AC bonuses, weapon familiarities/proficiencies/bonuses, and status protections that most races (other than humans) start out with. Or rather, perhaps, that the +2 Dex IS the Kitsune's racial save/AC/weapon bonus, rolled into a single bonus.

That said, it's just my own opinion, and I wouldn't really mind if it was LA+1. I'm just not sure it's warranted.

In other news, thanks for the heads up about the Celestial Creature template. I'll probably just stick with a mundane kitsune (there's a rare phrase), then, since I'm a little new to Level Adjustments and the like (I kid you not, I honestly thought that all characters had to start with class levels/hit dice equaling the campaign's starting level regardless of LA/ECL until just now *facepalm*).

[Amara]

In 3.5 anything that gets + to any attributes without equivalent - to another gets level adjustment, from my experience.
(Unless he handles things differently, his game.)

So, if we started at level 7 I would have hrnm...

► Show Spoiler

For were
Level/ CR/ Special
1st/ +1/ Wis +2, natural armor +2, alternate form (brown bear), low-light vision, shapechanger subtype, werebear feat (Run)
2nd/ +1/ Alternate form (hybrid), bear empathy, damage reduction (5/silver), werebear feats (Iron Will, Endurance)
3rd/ +2/ Curse of lycanthropy, damage reduction (10/silver)

And then uhh

for the actual bear portion
Class/ HD / BAB/ Fort save/ ref save/ will save/ skill points/ special
1st / 1d8/ +0/ +2/ +2/ +0/ 2 + Int mod./ Str +2, Dex +2, natural armor +2, bear abilities, bite
2nd/ 2d8/ +1/ +3/ +3/ +0/ 2 + Int mod./ Str +2, Con +2, scent
3rd/ 3d8/ +2/ +3/ +3/ +1/ 2 + Int mod./ Str +2, Con +2, natural armor +2, 2 claws
4th/ 4d8/ +3/ +4/ +4 / +1/ 2 + Int mod./ Str +2, Con +2, improved grab, Track

If that's still ok.
I'd start as a paladin at our first level up, then, losing only 2d8 in HP and the up to Str +4, Con +2, natural armor +1, and "large" distinguisher. Unless it'd be arguably better to still not take class levels/delay that a bit... but I'm not certain how long a game you're planning either, and I would like him to be a paladin, even a rather low leveled one.
Improved grab is mostly what I was worried about having, and 4HD from being a bear grants that.
If that's fine, I'll type up some fluff/background and whatnot before I start thinking on how to allocate things.

[Nioca]

In 3.5 anything that gets + to any attributes without equivalent - to another gets level adjustment, from my experience.
(Unless he handles things differently, his game.)

That I did not know. LA+1 it is, then.

EDIT: Just occurred to me that more right be read into the above sentence (or, more specifically, emoticon choice) than I intended, so to clarify: not actually upset, and not trying to beg the DM into not making it LA+1 or anything. Just a tad bummed that it actually does have an LA.

[willpell]

Yeah, as I'd said, first draft. I figured I'd have to redo some of the math on that thing.

I didn't mean the math, I meant the formatting. Was it not wrong for you? It looks like it was intended to be two parallel columns, but instead it was a single column for me, a bunch of category names and then a bunch of numbers. I could probably have cut and pasted and made them line up right, but still, I shouldn't have to bother; it indicates that something wasn't right with the program or whatever you had used.

The Dwarven merchant was not his first Master, but if his previous ones were Elven in nature, then that would work, sure.

Hm, elves enslaving an elf...seems a bit off, but maybe. I should perhaps reread his backstory. I don't have anyone in mind who'd be more likely to do the enslaving, and some of my elves are a bit on the nasty side. Although atrocities in my world have a habit of attracting tactical nuclear karma sooner or later....

Looks like would be the best fit for the Favoured Soul thing.

You're right, that is extremely on-the-nose. In fact I'm almost tempted to rule it a bonus feat for FSes in general, even if they're not half-human. I do like the idea that humans are the "Race of Destiny", but this doesn't seem like a terribly good way of representing an idea as vague as that...it does however very strongly suggest the idea of having a deity's personal interest and occasional intervention, and that would fit nicely if FSes are literally descended from gods or celestials (or fiends).

That's fine. Except for perhaps riding, I don't see Ado ever using those Skills.

Well those issues would need to be pointed out to anyone else using the same program.

If I read this right, you've purchased the following skill ranks:

Concentration 6
Heal 3
Knowledge (arcana) 6
Knowledge (religion) 6
Sense Motive 3
Spellcraft Int 6

Yeah... That is 30 ranks? 6*4=24 + 3*2=6 = 30.

Hm...apparently I fail at math.

You'd said he would get an extra skill point in your setting, though, so that would also change the numbers.
I suppose I could remove the Sense Motive ranks and bump concentration a bit. It's supposed to reflect the fact that until a few days ago ICly, he's never even cast a spell!

Then how'd he get to level 7? I assumed that the incident in his backstory was him at level 1, where adventurers always start, and that he's been refining his skills since then, as well as expanding into arcane magic.

Ah, darn. I was hoping to pull someone into at least a slight connection with my (apparently only "normal") PC.

Well I don't see how a doppelganger would have helped that. The Kitsune will be passing for human, so s/he could certainly befriend you on that basis - you wouldn't know s/he was secretly a fox, but s/he wouldn't know you can cast spells unless you told him/her. Whether a "human" and a half-elf raised among elves would have all that much more in common with each other than with a centaur or whatever, I dunno. Unless you were getting at something else which I missed altogether.

EDIT: I'm also open to any Lawful Neutral Deity to be the source of Ado's FS powers.

I had thought your character sounded Good from their backstory, but LN is acceptible (though I tend to associate it with amorality and ruthless efficiency). The seven chief LN deities in my setting are:
* St. Cuthbert, god of Justice. Almost Good, but a bit too militant about his idea of right and wrong, and perhaps slightly too fond of thwacking others upside the head. Followers may not be Evil.
* Erathis, goddess of Civilization and Wealth. Typically more constructive than not, but accepting of economic injustices and similar "necessary" evils; thinks on a grand scale and doesn't necessarily pay much attention to the little people who fall through the cracks.
* Bralm, goddess of Industry and Community. Has a creepy queen-bee vibe; that's pretty much all I recall about her.
* Primus, god of Order and Mathematics. Completely inhuman and brutally rational; cares nothing for individuals, only for the Grand Cosmic Design and its guiding principles. See what I said about Erathis, only times 100,000...no matter who you are, you're a speck of dust to him, and not at all welcome to step one inch out of your appointed role in the clockwork universe.
* Zuoken, god of Self-Discipline, Martial Arts, and Mind over Matter. Basically only a good patron for Monks or Psionic characters.
* Soorinek, goddess of Reason and Doubt. Likes to anatagonize and undermine other religions (canonically, she's Evil, but I didn't buy that based on the described persona; she's more like someone who gets into an Internet flamewar over intolerance for the stupidity of others and makes a futile attempt at beating some sense into their heads).
* Wee Jas, goddess of Transition, Inevitability, Death and Magic. Pitiless but not actively Evil. Followers cannot be Good.
Surprisingly, none of these are made-up; there were other alignments where I could find literally nothing I liked and had to just homebrew stuff. If this bunch don't work for you, we can talk about other deities; I'm not sure these were the ideal choices anyway, as some of them are a trifle redundant.

While working on my options... As a native german, I've searched the last hours for it... I don't think there is such a thing as a "Heivolk", willpell ^^┬░ Sure you didn't spell that wrong ?

Doesn't "Hei" mean "high", and "volk" mean "folk" (ie "people")? It seemed like the obvious term for those of celestial blood. (I went through about six names before I settled on this one, and I'll consider it good enough even if it isn't actually German, but I thought it was.)

Also... Hrmmm... That could nearly get me to actually play an Half-Elf... Ah, well, no... The elves still get that nifty "Automatic roll for secret doors/walls"-thing and humans a feat... I'll more likely be a quarter Elf/Human, just for fluff and choose the numbers of one of the two races... But the Tiefling looks great for a wizard if Level-Buyoff is allowed... If I just wouldn't be that inclined to be pretty...

Tieflings have a Charisma penalty, so it's not at all hard to fluff that as them being unpleasant-looking (though it can also mean being too pretty in a skeevy way, or just being unpersonable for reasons not related to looks). On the other hand there are easier ways of getting an INT bonus - I did import the Sun Elves from Faerun, and both they and the Monster Manual's Gray Elves get an INT bonus instead of DEX (the Gray elves get both, but lose STR, and both lose CON as is typical of most elf races). Did I mention that I have at least 12 elf races in my game, not counting those made from templates? And it's not even that I'm all that fond of elves; it's just that they seem like the type to overspecialize to such an extent that they would create an entire subrace, while humans with the same diversity of interests are still essentially the same creature.

Whaaaa?

This is the image I was going to use as the avatar for a CHA based Cleric. She is very pretty

:drool:

But that's more likely a full-blooded succubus or brachina, or at least a half-fiend. Tieflings aren't likely to have wings and a tail, and with the CHA penalty I do think it's more fitting to treat them as being sort of mutants - which might occasionally mean Emma Frost, but at least as often it should be James Howlett at best, if not Barnell Bohusk....

Regarding Kitsune as LA+1: I can see where you're coming from (especially on wanting to err on the side of harshness), but personally, I don't think they quite warrant an LA+1. I'd place them on the same playing field as a gnome or dwarf; Dwarves have a far larger array of bonuses (some situational), and Gnomes are fairly similar but have additional save bonuses and more versatile SLAs. Kitsune have none of the save bonuses, situational AC bonuses, weapon familiarities/proficiencies/bonuses, and status protections that most races (other than humans) start out with. Or rather, perhaps, that the +2 Dex IS the Kitsune's racial save/AC/weapon bonus, rolled into a single bonus.

Yeah, you have a point. There is however one other argument against these guys - my CW does NOT have the obligatory Fantasy Japan region. Or rather it does, but only in a very niche sense, and these guys wouldn't be a very good fit. If they were included, they'd need to lose their Asian-ness and just be a random fantasy race. And frankly, I'm not short on those, though I do go for massiveness, so I could make room for one more if you're *really* committed to playing one. I'd still rather you went with something I actually *intended* to include, though; it's not that I can't adjust my plans, but it adds to the burden of my worldbuilding, which is already a dizzyingly vast task.

In 3.5 anything that gets + to any attributes without equivalent - to another gets level adjustment, from my experience.

Pretty nearly always, yeah. I think there are a few races that give a net increase without LA, but not very many, and I may have thrown some of them out.

I'd start as a paladin at our first level up, then, losing only 2d8 in HP and the up to Str +4, Con +2, natural armor +1, and "large" distinguisher. Unless it'd be arguably better to still not take class levels/delay that a bit... but I'm not certain how long a game you're planning either, and I would like him to be a paladin, even a rather low leveled one.
Improved grab is mostly what I was worried about having, and 4HD from being a bear grants that.

[/quote]

I think a Werebear Paladin 1 is 7 all total and has the full werebear package, but just to be clear, you cannot take some "levels of bear" and then some paladin levels and then more "levels of bear". If we were using Monster Classes (which I'd rather not), you'd have to take the entire monster class from start to finish before you could pick up any class levels.

[Amara]

I think a Werebear Paladin 1 is 7 all total and has the full werebear package, but just to be clear, you cannot take some "levels of bear" and then some paladin levels and then more "levels of bear". If we were using Monster Classes (which I'd rather not), you'd have to take the entire monster class from start to finish before you could pick up any class levels.

Well, the were template itself only has a level adjustment of 3, but it also includes nothing related to the actual species. The book labels the additional beast levels as optional (and there are as many levels as the creature in question has HD,) but it's the only way to get the species related abilities that were is meant to have. Brown bears have 6d8, hence the 6 levels. If you're ruling I still have to take the last two levels prior to starting paladin, however rather than just never taking them, that's fine. I'd assumed I could just go without the last bit of HD and the abilities that come with them. (Since I technically don't have to take the beast levels at all, I just see little point to running a were without the abilities said creature receives.) I don't mind that. (I do know the rule about paladins and multiclassing, yes. I hadn't meant that.)

I...can probably find the bear and were separate stuff from the book (I think it was in Savage Species?) but this proved decent quick reference.

[Nioca]

There is however one other argument against these guys - my CW does NOT have the obligatory Fantasy Japan region. Or rather it does, but only in a very niche sense, and these guys wouldn't be a very good fit. If they were included, they'd need to lose their Asian-ness and just be a random fantasy race.

Already done, actually. I wasn't trying to impose setting-specific details, I just wanted the race itself.

I'd still rather you went with something I actually *intended* to include, though; it's not that I can't adjust my plans, but it adds to the burden of my worldbuilding, which is already a dizzyingly vast task.

Yeah, I read through the thread again and spotted the "standard elf-dwarf-orc-gnome-hobbit stuff" restriction; I missed it on my first read-through and thought that, like classes, it was pretty much anything (sane) goes. It's not so much that I'm attached to playing a Kitsune, so much that I just want something that:
A - Isn't human (I tend to default to and play those a bit too often)
B - Mechanically meshes with my intended class (Battle Sorcerer) well, preferably with some sort of INT or CHA bonus or spellcasting support
C - Isn't loaded down with dozens of racial hit-dice or level adjustments

I suppose Gnome fits the bill, but... eh. They're fine mechanically, but I feel like I couldn't take playing one seriously. If you've got something that fits those three criteria which works better in the setting, then by all means, point me to it. 'Cause, really, I've only got the D&D SRD to work on here.