Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

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willpell
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:23 pm

Feytala wrote:As I read it, Outsider also gives you very cool polymorph-possibilities for a wizard
:x

There's a very frightening word in that sentence, as well as the overall message. I'm not trying to be Stop Having Fun Guy, but the line between a fun toy and a game-breaking engine of insanity is rather thin here....
After all I heared, 4th edition is pure crap, but they surely have cooler Tieflings... :D
Don't believe everything you heard. 4E was a step backward in several ways, but it has its charms, and I've thought of incorporating a few bits from it. For example, the feat Alertness does almost nothing in 3E, and thanks to the Familiar rules, practically all wizards get it for free. In 4E, it has an extra effect that means your opponent doesn't get the +2 bonus for attacking you when you're flat-footed in the surprise round. Just enough of a bonus to make the feat somewhat worthwhile, IMO. I haven't officially adopted it, but I'm strongly thinking about doing so.
And nope. My other considerations besides wizard were "Rogue/wizard" Dark templated Whispergnome for the Arcane Rogue-niche.
And human battledancer going Dervish.
Oi. Methinks you guys might have a bit more experience than me....
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Feytala » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:43 pm

Did I say something wrong ? What breaks the game ? Outsider ? Polymorph ? (As that would wonder me, being a PHB-Spell and such)... And hey, you're the GM - If you're not fine with something, just say it and I leave it alone... As I said, I am very much not used to actually PLAY D&D and I MAY have visited a few D&D-Forum to much in the last days.^^┬░

Hrm... About 4th, sure... I believe you. My information is pure 2nd-handed, plus the fact that I only own 3.5 and 3.0-Books.^^

About the last thing... *caughs*. Not really. As I said, I read a lot. Whispergnome I noticed by myself, okay... Dark-Template got suggested from a more D&D-used friend for a "I am not there"-Built.
And, well Human is PHB, Dervish is complete Warrior and battledancer is part of the characters fluff...

Sorry, if I sounded in any way competent. :D But, yeah, it is suprisingly easy to understand at least the basics of D&D, if you jump head-on into it. I am still not thinking I got the difference between a swift, free, move, standard, partial and Full action, but that will unfold, I think... And all the strange battle maneuvers... Charging and bullrushing seems the same but is not. Then grappling seems to be he bane of all casters, yet I don't know why. And theres Attacks of Opportunitys. Everywhere. Whatever and whenever they are used.

I think I stick with the "High numbers are good"-part. Can't never go wrong on that...

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nioca » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:25 am

willpell wrote:Update - Having just read the Spellscales chapter in Races of the Dragon, I formally retract my previous objections, and would like to strongly recommend this race instead of the Kitsune. +2 Charisma, favored class Sorcerer, and a racial obsession with variety and experience - not to mention that they look a lot like elves, except for the titular scales, and a few ridges on their forehead or possibly sharp teeth. I even have a better name for them - Dracaena, the scientific name of a plant which produces a resin called "dragon's blood". The name comes from the latin for "female dragon", and Spellscale women are slightly larger than men on average, so it's as good a fit as I could manage without referencing Dracula (and that would be confusing since they're not vampires).

Alternatively, if the CON penalty of spellscales bothers you, the Draconic Creature template is +1 LA and gives +2 STR, +2 CON, and +2 CHA along with natural weapons, natural armor, darkvision (along with LLV, which spellscales also have), and a couple skill and save bonuses.
Hmm... can you send me more information on both? A draconic spellscale might just work excellently, but I would need to have more information if I were to have any hope of statting one up.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:21 am

Ok... since cleric idea doesn't sound like it will work, how would you feel about playing a ranger with a monstrous spider modded out to fit as an animal companion? Converting spells to cures would still let me use my little friend to bind cuts with silk... :lol:
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:35 am

Feytala wrote:Did I say something wrong ? What breaks the game ? Outsider ? Polymorph ?
Polymorph is a legendarily broken spell, even if it's only limited to humanoids; outsiders tend to have legions of powerful SLAs and SUs given to them on the assumption that they were monsters, not player characters, and allowing an Aasimar character or the like to shapeshift into such things is likely to get degenerate fast. I'm not saying it can never happen, but it will need to be heavily scrutinized and possibly spot-nerfed with less-than-elegant rulings.
As I said, I am very much not used to actually PLAY D&D and I MAY have visited a few D&D-Forum to much in the last days.^^┬░
Yep, that sounds about right. The D&D Optimization Community takes a considerable degree of pride in discovering all manner of cheese which is unlikely to ever fly at the table (though they can always hope to find a DM who doesn't realize the danger he's in and will allow them to get away with crap that's likely to end up giving him a complex).
I am still not thinking I got the difference between a swift, free, move, standard, partial and Full action, but that will unfold, I think...
It's pretty easy to understand. A character gets a Swift, a Move and a Standard on their turn; they can use the Standard for an additional Move if they wish, or they can trade the Move and the Standard for a Full-Round. "Partial action" is actually an obsolete term from 3.0 that 3.5 doesn't seem to use, which is odd because the situation it describes still comes up, and now they explain it long-hand; it just means "a move or a standard, but not both". Free actions are, well, free, although a lot of them in older books have been revised into swifts. There are also Immediate actions; these allow you to act when it's not your turn, but you only get one immediate action in a round, and you lose your swift action for the following turn.
Charging and bullrushing seems the same but is not.
Nope, a charge is just a way to move further than is normally possible and then attack with a bonus. A bullrush does no damage normally, but can be used to shove your opponent off a cliff, into a fire, or past a line of teammattes who all take a whack at him as he goes past. You can also charge someone and then bullrush them instead of attacking for damage.
Then grappling seems to be he bane of all casters, yet I don't know why.
It's extremely difficult to cast any spells at all when grappling. The spell has to meet all of these conditions in order to even be an option:
* Casting time no longer than 1 standard action (this rules out Summon Monster for instance).
* No Somatic components (which the majority of spells have)
* No focus or material component, unless you have it in-hand; if you don't, getting it out of your pouch takes a full-round action.
* Doesn't require "precise and careful action", which may rule out a few other options (the example they give is drawing a circle for Protection from Evil, but that has Somatic components anyway so they should have found a better one to mention).
* And on top of all that, if you find a spell that meets all these conditions, you STILL have to make a Concentration check to get the spell to work.
And theres Attacks of Opportunitys. Everywhere. Whatever and whenever they are used.
They're only mildly difficult to understand. In essence, even though you make 1 attack every 6 seconds as an action, it's assumed that you're constantly shifting around in place and waving a weapon and trying to defend yourself. When someone in reach lets down their guard, you can take a free swing at them. Most characters can do this only once in a round; examples of activities which open the victim up to be AoOed include trying to run over and fight someone else, casting a spell, firing a bow, or trying to grapple you.
Nioca wrote:Hmm... can you send me more information on both? A draconic spellscale might just work excellently, but I would need to have more information if I were to have any hope of statting one up.
What made me think the spellscales were perfect was their described culture, and I can't really summarize all that; if you can't get a copy of Races of the Dragon to read, well, I'll try to do it justice in play, but the extremely short version is that they're highly experimental and experiential ultra-individualists, crave endless variety and high drama, and pretty much worship Magic. They look sort of like elves except for having colorful scales on their skin and a few forehead ridges, and their personality is a lot like that of Elves except with much less patience, and much more expression of emotion in ways that a human would recognize.

Mechanically, spellscales are -2 CON, +2 CHA, have low-light vision, and they can do a "blood-quickening meditation" every day which gives them a skill bonus or temporary use of a feat or something. Their favored class is sorcerer; canonically, they're always born as the child of one or more sorcerers (unless they breed among themselves of course), though I'm open to changing that. That's about it, really; they're not terribly exciting, I just thought the personality seemed to be about right, and they had the right balance of human-ness and non-humanness.

Draconic creature is a template which gives +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 CHA, +1 Natural Armor, claw/claw/bite attacks, and a couple of minor bonuses for LA +1. It can be upgraded to Half-Dragon using a template class, but that probably doesn't interest you. I also made a houserule that Draconics can take the first two levels of a Racial Paragon Class designed for Half-Dragons, not that I expect that you care since it's not a caster class (though it does have a d12 HD and a bonus to your natural armor). Fluff-wise, these are just people who are less than 1/2 dragon but still very measurably affected by their dragon-ness, with scales and claws and a very prolonged maturation period. Unlike with the Half-Dragon template, Draconic doesn't require you to specify what color your dragon ancestor was; you can choose to say that your scales are red and thus you're probably descended from a red dragon, but since you don't have a breath weapon or any immunity to fire, the difference might be only cosmetic, and it might turn out that you're actually Bronze-descended or something.

Let me know if you have any questions I haven't addressed.
spiderwrangler wrote:Ok... since cleric idea doesn't sound like it will work, how would you feel about playing a ranger with a monstrous spider modded out to fit as an animal companion? Converting spells to cures would still let me use my little friend to bind cuts with silk... :lol:
Rangers can't do the sponcasting thing unfortunately, otherwise this would sound like a plan.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:45 am

willpell wrote:Rangers can't do the sponcasting thing unfortunately, otherwise this would sound like a plan.
Doh... :oops: teach me to skim... I neglected that little 'CANNOT' in the ranger casting description... :roll: I didn't think that was something I'd remembered existing before... should have trusted my gut. You'd be ok with fairly straightforward ranger with spider companion though? That was my original thought until the Spider domain for cleric was brought to my attention, and since you aren't a fan of that, I'd be willing/interested in reverting to this type of character, which is more the *nature revering spider-friend* type flavor I was trying to bend a cleric to.
Although, Rangers to have access to cure spells, and heal skill checks, so still can swaddle your broken limbs in silk...
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by ThroughTheWell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:17 am

SW, I forget where it was, but last time around I think I also pointed you to a couple wizardish classes that did spidery things. In any case, you may want to find that old post I wrote.
http://dndtools.eu/classes/arachnomancer2/
http://dndtools.eu/classes/arachnomancer/
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:44 am

ThroughTheWell wrote:SW, I forget where it was, but last time around I think I also pointed you to a couple wizardish classes that did spidery things. In any case, you may want to find that old post I wrote.
Yeah, if Spider Domain is out, I think those are too. Thanks though!
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:34 pm

It does sound like ranger is probably the class I'd be most comfortable with in this context. I might decide the Spider domain is okay eventually; if I do I'll offer you a rebuilding quest or something. For now, I'll say that you can probably get some spider-related stuff from Drow of the Underdark without having to be an actual drow (it would be fitting if you were a wild or wood elf instead, but that's up to you). In particular there's a Druid ACF to turn into a monstrous spider and a Cleric one to rebuke spiders. I didn't find anything about "vermin empathy" though. I'm not sure that really makes any sense given that spiders are mindless.

I'm looking at the Animal Lord prestige class in Complete Adventurer; I might eventually be up to the effort of creating a Spider Lord version, but I don't know if I'll be able to do it soon enough for you to start with that class, even though Animal Lord normally starts at 6th level.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Feytala » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Is it bad, that I somehow like the idea of my character being absolutely terrified by spiders ? Will continue to work on it...^^

About the other comments : Yep, I looked up a few forum (Damn, whats the plural of forum in english, anyways ?^^┬░) and obviously, they overdid it. I will try to stay clear of to cheese things - But you gotta tell me, when I do. :D

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:10 pm

Feytala wrote:About the other comments : Yep, I looked up a few forum (Damn, whats the plural of forum in english, anyways ?^^┬░)
As a native speaker, I would say 'forums' is about right; some people who consider themselves experts insist that 'fora' is correct, but I consider that to be trendy-sounding and pretentious.
and obviously, they overdid it. I will try to stay clear of to cheese things - But you gotta tell me, when I do. :D
Will do. :)
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:26 pm

willpell wrote:It does sound like ranger is probably the class I'd be most comfortable with in this context.
Ok, that sounds reasonable, if you are comfortable with spider ranger, that's kinda the feel I was going for initially.
willpell wrote:I might decide the Spider domain is okay eventually; if I do I'll offer you a rebuilding quest or something. For now, I'll say that you can probably get some spider-related stuff from Drow of the Underdark without having to be an actual drow (it would be fitting if you were a wild or wood elf instead, but that's up to you). In particular there's a Druid ACF to turn into a monstrous spider and a Cleric one to rebuke spiders. I didn't find anything about "vermin empathy" though. I'm not sure that really makes any sense given that spiders are mindless.
Are you referring me to Drow of the Underdark for cleric stuff? I think I'm willing to abandon that line of character if the ranger option is open to me. I think vermin empathy was something that was being doctored up as a suggestion for me, a variant on wild empathy, but more restricted?
willpell wrote:I'm looking at the Animal Lord prestige class in Complete Adventurer; I might eventually be up to the effort of creating a Spider Lord version, but I don't know if I'll be able to do it soon enough for you to start with that class, even though Animal Lord normally starts at 6th level.
This would be something I'd have an interest in, but perhaps something that could/should be revisited at the point that the next level is being reached?
Feytala wrote:Is it bad, that I somehow like the idea of my character being absolutely terrified by spiders ? Will continue to work on it...^^
Need to knock you out to do some spider healing? :)
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:49 pm

Spider, clearly your 'little' friend needs to be a giant one of these guys, because they are adorable.
[edited for spider warning D: I still think they're cute.]
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Feytala » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:17 pm

*shivers* Now, I will not getting any sleep...

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:20 pm

It's just a little jumping spider :C

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:35 pm

Ayeaka wrote:It's just a little jumping spider :C
Well, in the real world they're teeny-weeny, and thus of little concern to any but the most severe arachnophobes. (I get slightly creeped out by spiders, but it's directly a function of how long their legs are - with the exception of the so-called daddy-longlegs, since those stick closely to their webs and are so thin as to be almost invisible. In either case, jumping spiders have exceedingly short legs and thus look rather cute to me.)

But of course, we're talking about making one the size of a dog or larger, so that doesn't help much. Nor does a blown-up-1000x picture. At this size, they are indeed rather creepy, especially with the hair and all.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Feytala » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:42 pm

*shivers again* Spiiiders... Brrr.... I see ingame fluff coming... Not that I don't see my character as couragous and laughing danger in the face, will getting her hands dirty with blood (Actually, if the Wizard has his hands full off blood, either he is doing some really creepy spell, looting corpses or the Fighter has done something considerably wrong, but thats not the point her^^), but S.P.I.D.E.R.S... Weeelll.... Brrr... The ranger most certainly will not sleep near my bedroll...^^┬░ And I have to learn magic circle against vermin or such a thing...^^┬░

Actually... Make that greater magic circle...

If there isn't such a spell, I could get into some serious research... :D

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:22 pm

Well it's just fortunate for you that as a Wizard, you'll be far from the battle lines and thus won't need healing too often. The werebear is probably going to have to learn to love those eight-legged freaks... :lol:
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Feytala » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:43 pm

*makes a note* Get some way of healing yourself...


And yep, it is... Well, if I built the hot-head I have in mind currently, I will not always do the most intelligent thing... But, well, a few rounds of Protection Spells should do the deed... :D Lets just see how the werebear turns out.^^ I hope to get to like him. My experience with paladins is... Well... Uhm... They're... Like... Paladins, you know ? Once had one on a convention that forbid the rogue to backstab people because it was unfair combat. Oh, and the wizard may not use necromancy spells, because thats evil. And summon evil creatures, because thats evil too. Or messing up someones mind... But the players here seem... I don't know... More adult, than what I am usually used to. :D That lets hope me.^^

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:28 pm

I don't think there should be direct conflict with Rían. I'm not a big fan of lawful stupid. xD
Obviously he'd refuse to take part in "evil" actions, but refusing to take part in something done for a good reason vs refusing it be done...two different things. (Unless there was another way of doing it I suppose.)

Oh. How would you rule cooking; "craft" (technically food is a thing created) or profession? (which I suppose would be...chef..if I purused that. o_o )

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:38 pm

The forces of Good, or even Law, are almost never stupid in my game. If the Paladin player was behaving disgracefully, it would be likely to count as a violation of their code, or at least to draw attention from the Higher Planes entities who monitor these things, attempting to correct the paladin's definition of Good with gradually decreasing degrees of gentleness. Given that Good Itself is ultimately the source of a Pal's powers, the only way one ever gets away with idiocy is if the GM isn't doing his job.

Now, there are legitimate arguments against things like necromancy and sneak attacks, and the paladin might get some credit for roleplaying a sensible distaste for such things. But using the Paladin Code as an excuse to be a Nazi to the other PCs will certainly not fly. Templarish behavior is usually a sign of corruption in NPC organizations that are ostensibly devoted to Good, and it usually doesn't last long before actual do-Gooders will put a kibosh on these overzealous, overcompensating phonies. And on top of that, the other PCs are here to have fun, so you need to be able to come to an accord with them. Fortunately we all seem to be intelligent and decent individuals, so I don't anticipate a problem.

I would rule that Cook is a Profession, since food isn't really an item in the game sense.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:19 pm

Feytala wrote:┬░ And I have to learn magic circle against vermin or such a thing...^^┬░

Actually... Make that greater magic circle...

If there isn't such a spell, I could get into some serious research... :D
I'd make em behave... and stay clear of your bedroll. Antilife Shell or Repel Vermin would do what you want in keeping 'em away, but not Wiz spells.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nioca » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Gah, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Wound up rather busy today. Anyway, yeah, I think a Draconic Spellscale will work, and it fits pretty well with what I'm going for (namely, a TN resentful self-centered noble who finally took one blow to the ego too many and deciding to try his luck adventuring. Tends to lean toward good on big things like saving people, but also gets rather petty and selfish on smaller things) (For those concerned, his pettiness will mostly manifest itself towards NPCs; he's smart enough to know not to get too snippy with the people who have his back).

Two Questions: If LA is bought off during character creation, does the character still start with ECL7-level wealth, or do they have to make do with ECL6-level wealth?

Secondly, can I get more details on the Blood-Quickening feat thingy? It'd be nice to know how that operates in a little more detail, since it could potentially effect how I build my character.

EDIT: See new post for more details. Or just note the strike-through portion.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:41 am

To build out a Animal Companion from the Monstrous Spider template, would you be intending to grant any intelligence to it? I know that they normally have no INT score. Also, size? I'm assuming that Medium or even Small would be the biggest you'd be willing to allow?
For reference, I'm thinking Dex based Ranger with Two-Weapon branch, and appropriate feats. Still working on sheet.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nioca » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:13 pm

Actually, I'd like to amend my earlier post about Spellscales working to say that I don't think they will. :(

It's not a mechanical thing. Mechanically, they work fine. However, from what I could dig up online, I could tell I really just didn't have a clue how to actually play one. Not that I don't know how to play characters, but it's clear there's a lot of stuff that's relevant to this race that you kinda need to know, and it's stuff I just plain don't have access to (short of outright pirating the material, which I'm given to understand is rather illegal). At least with the kitsune or a generic fantasy race, I could just make some stuff up and have some wiggle room (or perhaps draw a little bit from real-life lore regarding them), but with Spellscales, I'd just be completely and absolutely lost, RP-wise.

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