Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:38 am

@ patdragon:

Karsite or changeling is fine; I'd prefer to veto the other race suggestions for now.

What kind of variant Rogue would you want? I can grope around and try to make it a reality, but I would need a tleast a general idea of what you're looking for. Scout would work adequately, and there's also the Wilderness Rogue from Unearthed Arcana, which is just a Rogue with an adjusted skill list for a more rural background.

Binder is a GREAT class, and I strongly recommend reading the book just to get the awesome fluff text that comes up in each Vestige's entry; if you're not up to running without the book, that's your choice, but I would happily facilitate if you did - IMO, it's an even cooler experience if you sort of discover how it works through play, though I won't blame you if you don't want to be a "guinea pig" to such treatment. I have a set of resources that would make it easy for me to put the info at your fingertips. The only real argument against Binder is that it really "comes online" at level 8, when you can bind two vestiges at once; having to start just one level short of that would be a somewhat painful experience IMO, but as a newbie perhaps it's for the best.
Factotum is a trifle boring IMO; it gets its choice of skills, so it can be handy for an unusual concept, and the class abilities are solid, they're just...well, there's not much difference between any two Factota other than the skills they choose to put ranks in, and even those hardly matter since they can just spend an "inspiration point" for +level to any skill check several times a day. It works, but it doesn't really speak to me, and I find it hard to justify such characters in the setting's flavor.

I don't think Aegis is doing the lizardman, sadly. Last I heard he had a Barbarian.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Patdragon » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:49 am

I am very tempted to be a guinea pig and try this out a little blind. I found out the karsite is a +2 LA (makes sense now I read some abilities in detail) so maybe not the best to use if the sweet spot is only a level off (tho guessing leveling will be slow anyway so might not matter); maybe just a plain old human would do, been a while since I played one of those.

Current idea so far runs a little like [name] was average to the point of being forgotten, Until he found that first forgotten book in the library.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:45 pm

If that is indeed the plan you'd like me to go ahead with, I'll go ahead and stat up a basic version for you to try out in a quick vignette, and then we can adjust from there.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Patdragon » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:55 pm

Give me a few days and I might have a spare moment to make a character myself and i'll Pm you the details as I think i might be able to get my hands on a copy of the book later today.
Just give me the basics to think on. I read 32 point stat buy, Level 7-ish as tiefling had a buy off level. I will most likely need help with equipment later if I do. Any quick BG links would be useful to link him in better with the world and how does your world view binders in general, same as book or slightly different.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:15 am

Patdragon wrote:Give me a few days and I might have a spare moment to make a character myself and i'll Pm you the details as I think i might be able to get my hands on a copy of the book later today.
Just give me the basics to think on. I read 32 point stat buy, Level 7-ish as tiefling had a buy off level. I will most likely need help with equipment later if I do.
It is 32 points, yes, and ECL 7. Just a note, the Tiefling's LA is "forgiven" - the math I did on the "River of XP" indicated that if a character buys off LA +1 at 3rd level, then by about 8th or 9th level, they've gained enough extra XP to be more or less "caught up" with characters that were LA +0 all along. Thusly, in a game of sufficiently high level (we're a little short, but I decided it was close enough), the benefits of an LA-having race are marginal enough that you no longer need to be lagging behind everyone else's level-ups, and you can just have the race "for free", the LA being waived entirely. (In other words, the difference between a Human Fighter 3 and a Goliath Fighter 2 is not that radical, but by the time they're both level 8, the Goliath's advantages are hardly significant compared to the class features of both.)

In general, equipment is something I prefer not to think about too much. I don't mind giving you a few magic items, but I prefer for you not to have a ton of miscellaneous items that cost 1 SP each, whose game effects are logically extrapolated from real life and have to be spot-ruled, rather than being defined in the rulebook. If you're cool with that, I'll make sure not to punish you for failing to carry everything you could possibly ever wish you had; if you really need rope or chalk or something, you'll generally be able to find somewhere to acquire it, but I'd prefer you didn't just proactively buy the entire equipment list "just in case" - this makes it much too hard for me to figure out how you'll react to situations.
Any quick BG links would be useful to link him in better with the world and how does your world view binders in general, same as book or slightly different.
They generally aren't really known to exist; mostly they're just mistaken for wizards or monsters. The flavor about them being witch-hunted by clerics makes me queasy, so it's likely this won't be emphasized. Oh, and the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar are definitely available to characters in the game, whether they're binders or not. The only major change you need to worry about is that, with a few exceptions such as Dahlver-Nar, the vestiges are never referred to by the names in the book (which are just demon names swiped from the Lesser Key of Solomon, and attached to entities that bear only vague resemblances to the original Goetia); the requirement to call out the name when pacting is dropped, as you need only address the vestige by its title (thusly if pacting with Buer, instead of saying "I want to make a bargain with Buer, known as Grandmother Huntress", you just say "I want to make a bargain with Grandmother Huntress"). Most of the titles begin with "The", so you'll bind The Grinning Hound one day and Avarice Betrayed the next, without ever using a name. (Avarice Betrayed is actually one of the ones I've come up with an alternate name for which isn't Goetic in origin, instead being suited to the culture described in the vestige's backstory, but you're not required to use that one either; the title alone suffices.)
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Patdragon » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:04 am

Almost sounds worth trying to find a +1LA creature just to get a free +1 then :), but other than the aaisimar which I don't really want I don't know what would fit tho i suppose a draconic template could be a nice, as there seem to be some dragon based story line going on. I have a copy i can read now so will get back to you maybe in 48 hour with a outline idea.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nerre » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 am

Hey Willpell,

are all talents like still spell, quickened spell, empowered spell, widend spell.... mage only? Are there spell-booster talents also working for a mage? So far I only found spell penetration or reach spell.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:56 am

Nerre wrote:Hey Willpell,

are all talents like still spell, quickened spell, empowered spell, widend spell.... mage only? Are there spell-booster talents also working for a mage? So far I only found spell penetration or reach spell.
If by "mage-only" you meant "wizard-only", then no; the vast majority of spell-related feats, including all the metamagic I know of, are legal for both wizards and sorcerers. The only exception is Quicken, for a reason that will be obvious after the next sentence. To "balance" the wizards' need to prepare a metamagicked spell in advance vs. the sorc's ability to choose metamagics while casting, the sorcerer always needs to use a full-round action to cast a metamagicked spell. Thusly, Quicken doesn't work for sorcerers as a general rule - but that rule has its own exceptions. Several sorcerer Alternate Class Features (ACFs) give you one or another way of spontaneously casting a spell with metamagic on it, and if your sorcerer can do that, Quicken becomes an option for him.

If you meant "can a character with no spellcasting ability take these spells", then I'm fairly sure that's a no, and even if you could take them, I'm not sure why you'd want to, since they wouldn't do anything. But a few of these feats (the ones that don't increase the spell level by very much) are useful to rangers and paladins of high enough level to have spells. Generally speaking, metamagic isn't useful to low-level spellcasters, since they don't have enough high-level slots to enhance any but their wimpiest spells - there's not much point in Empowering a Ray of Frost, you see, since the resulting damage would not compare favorably to a normal 2nd-level spell. Metamagic spells "come online" more and more as the spellcaster advances; at lower level, it's more sensible to devote your feats to things like Spell Focus, Combat Casting, or even Skill Focus: Concentration.

While you're thinking about feats, I can't recommend enough that any mage with even mildly combative inclinations should take at least one Reserve Feat. Detailed in Complete Mage, these allow you to create a little "mini-spell" without using spell slots or performing components, whenever you want as long as you keep one of your spells uncast; they allow a level 3 generalist to actually do more than 12 instances of damage in one day (five Acid Orbs, four Magic Missiles, and three of whatever does damage at 2nd level). For instance, your wizard could have a feat that lets him throw tiny Lightning Bolts as long as he has an Electricity spell prepared; the feat works even better for a Sorcerer, because she merely needs to have one spell slot left and an Electricity spell on her Spells Known list. (The spell grade matters; if your only Electricity spell is Lightning Bolt, you'll need to keep a 3rd-level spell slot in order to keep using the feat. However if you know Shocking Grasp, you can just keep a 1st-level slot. Higher slots make your mini-bolts more effective, but at least with a lower slot, you're less likely to run out completely.)

If you've ever played 4th Edition, Reserve Feats for mages and Tome of Battle maneuvers for fighters are basically early attempts at creating a system in which both Fighters and Mages would both be capable of surviving the adventuring day, regardless of whether it contained one really tough battle or a bunch of weaker ones. Previously, the Wizard was better for winning any single fight, but would likely get swamped in a long running battle if he couldn't escape (granted, he always could, but in theory he was vulnerable), while the Fighter couldn't entirely compete against "boss monsters" but was great for grinding your way through a Hall of Infinite Orcs. 4E tried to eliminate this disparity entirely, giving every class some At-Will powers that you could keep using forever, and some expendable Encounter or Daily powers which could get you past the toughest obstacles. So Reserve Feats are one-half of the "prototype" version of that system. They make mages MUCh more playable in extended dungeon crawls, helping to avoid the dreaded "fifteen-minute adventuring day" (which I have a strong grude against, just because it's realistically silly).
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:05 pm

SpiderWrangler, I can no longer find the text for the version of Vermin Companion you're using. The only thing I can find is a feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting, but I don't like that one at all because it gives the Vermin an Intelligence of 1, meaning it's no longer Mindless, and that just seems wrong to me (plus, y'know, it burns a feat). I'm pretty sure what we gave you was an Alternate Class Feature which contained details on vermin training, but it was probably misplaced as a result of the D&D Archive Implosion. It would be really handy if you have a saved copy of the complete rules that you could upload.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:17 pm

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:30 pm

Okay, tell me if these stats for Kzri look correct:

Monstrous Spider (hunting type)

Large vermin, with a 40-inch body and 40-inch-long legs totaling 10 feet in diameter, standing about a foot and a half high.
HUNTING SPIDER

NAME:
Kzri
Align : True Neutral
Size : Large
Speed : 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
HP : average 22 /max 36
HD: 4d8+4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABILITIES
STR : 15 / +2
DEX : 17 / +3
CON : 12 / +1
INT : -- / -0
WIS : 10 / +0
CHA : 02 / -4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attacks

BAB: +3
Grapple: +9
Space: 10 ft.
Reach: 5 ft.
Attack: Bite +4 melee, 1d8+3 bludgeon/slash/pierce and poison (1d6 STR damage unless Fort save at DC 13, when bitten and 1 minute later).
Full Attack: Same.

ARMOR CLASS
AC Total : 14
AC when Flat-Footed 11
AC vs Touch Attack 12
Base: 10
Armor: --
Natural: +2
Shield: --
Dexterity: +3
Size: -1
Magic: --
Misc.: --

INITIATIVE
Total: +3
DEX: +3
Misc.: --

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAVING THROWS

Fortitude: +5 = 4 + 1
Reflex: +4 = 1 + 3
Will: +1 = 1 + 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES

Mindless: Immune to all {Mind-Affecting} effects, including morale bonuses.

Vermin type: Darkvision 60 ft.

Tremorsense: May pinpoint the location of any creature touching the ground within 60 feet, or any creature touching the spider's web (a hunting spider does not create sheet webbing or throw webs in battle, but may still spin a web for its lair).

May descend on a webline in order to seize prey; its webbing has 12 hit points per 5-foot section, and may hold the weight of the spider plus another Large creature.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKILLS

Skills listed in MM statblock:
Climb +11 (may always take 10)
Hide +3
Jump +12
Spot +12

Other relevant skills:
Move Silently +3
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:08 pm

That mostly matches what I have in Kast's sheet.

In addition: Flees from and will not attack undead or oozes, will not attack constructs or incorporeal creatures.

Discrepancies: As a creature with 40ft speed, she gets a +4 Speed bonus to Jump checks (when able to move at that speed), so should have a jump of +16. ["Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet."]

Not sure where you got the Spot 12... I have her at Spot 8, all from Racial Bonus since she has no Wisdom.

*Edit: Ah, I see... she gets +4 for being a Monstrous Spider, and another +8 for being a Hunting type.

I think I'd been picturing her as larger, since you'd ruled her ride-able before. (our previous discussion of riding picks up in spoilers here).

Of course, the numbers you give (40 inch body and legs, 10 ft diameter) are modeling her as a circle with legs placed equidistant around the circumference, extending straight out rather than bending at all.

Is it safe to assume proportions would be roughly the same for Kast --> Kzri to human --> pony, just more legs and lower to the ground?
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:30 am

spiderwrangler wrote:In addition: Flees from and will not attack undead or oozes, will not attack constructs or incorporeal creatures.
I was just working out of the Monster Manual, which doesn't have any such information (so no complaints if a giant scorpion gets onto the Ethereal Plane and tries to eat Quinton). >:D As long as the details are on the Vermin Companion page, we should be fine.
Discrepancies: As a creature with 40ft speed, she gets a +4 Speed bonus to Jump checks (when able to move at that speed), so should have a jump of +16. ["Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet."]
I noticed that too and I'm not sure what happened; per the MM, hunting spiders get +10 to Jump checks, and they get +10 land speed (a web spider would have 30 feet of speed and no Jump bonuses in any case). What I don't know is whether the MM writers intended for that +10 jump bonus to be on top of the normal Jump bonus for being faster, or if it was intended to be part of that bonus. A lot of the system's "baked in" bonuses (such as size effects on Hide checks) were accounted for in the MM; I think the Horse's stats show the expected Jump ratings based on their speed, though I haven't checked recently. I'm honestly not sure how I should rule this one, but I'm already being kind of rules-loose about Kzri (I didn't call for Move Silently checks for her when she was climbing about in The Forest, and technically the Vermin Companion rules suggest that it's not actually possible to stop her from following you everywhere, since the Stay command isn't one of those you're allowed to empathically give her). My tentative inclination is to assume that the bonus is already in there - that hunting spiders get an inherent +6 to their jumping distance, plus what they get for their increased land speed. I could probably be persuaded otherwise though.
Not sure where you got the Spot 12... I have her at Spot 8, all from Racial Bonus since she has no Wisdom.
I was assuming that the +8 spot bonus for hunting spiders stacks with the +4 spot bonus for all spiders. The MM statblock Large spider, whose type isn't specified, shows Spot 4, so if you play a web spider you just use that number, and if you play a hunter you add 8 to it.
*Edit: Ah, I see... she gets +4 for being a Monstrous Spider, and another +8 for being a Hunting type.
Right. Although for the record, I decided that in Whiteleaf, the term "Monstrous Spider" specifically refers to a spider of Kzri's size (had I figured this out in time, when Hansel referred to a "spider of a certain size" as his way of roughly guessing your character level, he could have just said "Monstrous" - I actually came up with the system much earlier but then misplaced it). One that's larger or smaller gets a different name; a man-sized one is officially a "Giant Spider", and one the size of a cat is simply "a spider". The kind that we all have in our RL house right now is called a "microspider" in the GW; people are distinctly less likely to be scared of these, and so they reserve the convenient name for the kind which is actually dangerous to a level 1 Commoner.
I think I'd been picturing her as larger, since you'd ruled her ride-able before. (our previous discussion of riding picks up in spoilers here).
She's Large, you're Medium; you can ride her.
Of course, the numbers you give (40 inch body and legs, 10 ft diameter) are modeling her as a circle with legs placed equidistant around the circumference, extending straight out rather than bending at all.
The dimensions are straight out of the Monster Manual; they're just a rule of thumb. Like I said, as she gains HD, she'll get progressively larger, on a curve toward her eventual Size increase (I do the same thing with dragons). I was somewhat annoyed to notice that the rules we're using DO eventually start giving her Skills and Feats, "as if INT 1", which is only a slight improvement over actually giving her INT 1. But at least you didn't have to spend a Feat for the privilege.
Is it safe to assume proportions would be roughly the same for Kast --> Kzri to human --> pony, just more legs and lower to the ground?
Kzri has the same Space and Reach as a horse; from mandibles to spinnerets, she's probably about the same length, though obviously much wider and flatter. I'd imagine you probably ride her in more of a sitting position, perhaps even kneeling on her thorax or leaning back against her abdomen, rather than dangling your legs off the sides and possibly interfering with her ability to walk. Whatever works is fine though.

EDIT - Re the previous spoiler, I definitely consider the spider "suitable for riding", and I can see an argument for saying that Empathic Link could reduce or eliminate the no-saddle penalty. Would the weight of a saddle specifically put Kzri over her encumbrance?
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:58 am

willpell wrote:EDIT - Re the previous spoiler, I definitely consider the spider "suitable for riding", and I can see an argument for saying that Empathic Link could reduce or eliminate the no-saddle penalty. Would the weight of a saddle specifically put Kzri over her encumbrance?
IIRC, it would depend on your ruling on her legs as they relate to carrying capacity, and I think you'd either not made a ruling or assured me I was fine...

Carrying Capacity
STR Light Medium Heavy
15 66 lb. or less 67-133 lb. 134-200 lb.


"Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than characters can. Instead of the multipliers given above, multiply the value corresponding to the creatureÔÇÖs Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier... Large ├ù3,...."

So if she had 4 legs....

Carrying Capacity
STR Light Medium Heavy
15 198 lb. or less 199-399 lb. 400-600 lb.

Kast plus equipment is ~190 lb and an exotic riding saddle is 30 lb, putting Kzri into the medium encumbrance category, based on quadruped modifiers (which was an additional +x1 on top of the x2 she would have for just being Large...

I think you had said before that since I wasn't planning on riding her into battle or the like, and it would mostly be for flavor/scouting ahead, that we didn't really need a saddle. Or at least that's what I got out of it, having not pursued saddles further. If you rule that a saddle would be necessary, I'd certainly like to get a ruling on the increased carry capacity of an 8-legged arthropod vs quadruped vertebrate.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:35 pm

Will continue to think about whether this is necessary; for now since you're in no way specialized for mounted combat, I'll assume it doesn't especially matter.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:04 pm

I have no intention of ever engaging in mounted combat. If you were to spring an ambush on the party while Kast was mounted, his first move would be to leap free to allow Kzri and himself to attack independently.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nerre » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:08 am

Does the reserve feat mean 1 reserve feat = 1 infinite spell as long as there is a free spell slot, meaning I have to take it multiple times to get more than 1 infinite spell? Or does it work by spell categories?
Can you suggest 2-3 examples for me? It's hard to find good material for it.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nerre » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:38 pm

Hi

I updated Goratta, changed some spells, rewrote the skills section in your format and took feats. Please check if she is okay like this:
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Last edited by Nerre on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:04 pm

Nerre wrote:Does the reserve feat mean 1 reserve feat = 1 infinite spell as long as there is a free spell slot, meaning I have to take it multiple times to get more than 1 infinite spell? Or does it work by spell categories?
Can you suggest 2-3 examples for me? It's hard to find good material for it.
The reserve feat has a particular effect, which scales by level of the highest-level appropriate spell you have, but otherwise does not change. For instance, if you took the Winter's Blast feat, you'd have the ability to project a small "cone of cold" type effect as long as you had at least one Cold spell available. If you wanted to be able to produce short lightning bolts as long as you had a lightning spell available, you could also take that reserve feat; then as long as you knew both Lightning Bolt and Cone of Cold, and had one 3rd-level slot uncast, you could use both reserve feats at an X of 3. (This is an advantage that a sorcerer has over a wizard, in that the latter would have to keep two prepared spells uncast, unless he could find one that had both descriptors. Conversely, the wizard can take a reserve feat as his wizard bonus feat at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, whereas a sorcerer has only six feat slots after 1st level which could be spent on reserve feats, or on anything else he might want.)
Nerre wrote: Reserve Feat (Evocation)
No, you have to pick a particular subtype, not an entire school. For instance, since you have Fireball as a known spell, you would pick the Reserve Feat for Fire spells (I forget what it's called). This lets you create smaller Fireballs without expending a spell slot or needing gestures and incantations. Note that since you have no lower-grade Fire spells, the feat will become completely inoperable if you run out of 3rd-grade spells; if you'd picked Burning Hands as a 1st-level spell, then you could use that to power the Feat after you ran out of Fireballs, though it would deal much less damage.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Nerre
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nerre » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:20 pm

This this also work for non combat spells, for example putting disguise self/alter/silent image/invisibility self in the same category or some of them?

What would you suggest to leave out of the level 1 spells to trade for burning hands? Maybe disguise self since I can also use alter self for the same duration, only taking a 1 level higher spell slot?

Also I am not sure if lightning bolt instead of fireball might be better, the AE-damage sometimes is not a good idea since it has no friendly fire. In our D&D 2nd edition game our mage one time destroyed the backpack of our paladin, destroying most of his valuables which were inside. Lightninig bolt might still hit more than one target if they are in a line, but it can be aimed better.
Any hints from an D&D 3.5 player for me what's better in the long run?
Both have a level 1 spell to "keep a lower slot open". Shocking grasp even has an option to get +3 atk if the target has metal armor or weapons.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:37 pm

Both are good, but both are very situational. It is often easier to hit a cluster of enemies with a fireball, and aim it to avoid allies than it is to avoid hitting them when you attack in a line. However, if you are good at taking advantage of choke points, line based spells quickly become superior. Arc spells are typically rather safe as well, however, if you're dealing with lots of clustered enemies, but their group potential is less.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:02 pm

Nerre wrote:This this also work for non combat spells, for example putting disguise self/alter/silent image/invisibility self in the same category or some of them?
I'm not aware of reserve feats for any of those four, although there are some for noncombat spells - one for Summoning, one for Darkness, two for Healing, and a couple for cleric domains that I don't recall exactly what they do.
What would you suggest to leave out of the level 1 spells to trade for burning hands? Maybe disguise self since I can also use alter self for the same duration, only taking a 1 level higher spell slot?
Yeah, if you have Alter Self, Disguise Self is probably not relevant. They're different schools, but for the most part the higher-level one is just better. I think it might work strangely for you given that you're an Outsider - a notorious trick among rules lawyers is to use Polymorph with an unusual creature type to get access to better creatures than a humanoid can, but since Alter Self is limited to 5 HD, the abuse potential is probably minimal. I might well rule that it's even more limited, so that you don't turn into something that has 5 HD but like a +8 Level Adjustment to represent its many Spell-Like Abilities and such. As long as you mostly stick to using it as a disguise rather than a power exploit, you should be fine - it's a disguise which has the advantage of being real rather than illusory, so it doesn't fall apart when someone Will Saves against it (although a True Seeing still penetrates it).
Also I am not sure if lightning bolt instead of fireball might be better, the AE-damage sometimes is not a good idea since it has no friendly fire. In our D&D 2nd edition game our mage one time destroyed the backpack of our paladin, destroying most of his valuables which were inside. Lightninig bolt might still hit more than one target if they are in a line, but it can be aimed better.
Up to you. The only advice I can give is that in general, more monsters are resistant to fire than to electricity. More might also be vulnerable to fire, though, I'm not sure.
Both have a level 1 spell to "keep a lower slot open". Shocking grasp even has an option to get +3 atk if the target has metal armor or weapons.
Yes, and note that this one doesn't give a saving throw, since it requires a hit roll. Since the reserve feat will have you offering Reflex saves, having an attack roll option is good in case you need to tag a Rogue or something.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Patdragon » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:24 am

http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/reserve/ here are a list of reserve feats
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Nerre
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Nerre » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:09 pm

hm, those reserve feats are quiet weak. I thought it would be around 1/4 of the actual spell. Since the lightning bolt scales, it would be nice to have the reserve feat scale too. Right now, lightning bolt would be 7d6 on everything in the path of the lightning, and it would set things on fire and gets stronger if I hit metal things (like armor and weapons for example), some metals even would melt! Like the old spell "heat metal" being build in, and also having possible damage over time to enemies by their clothing, surrounding or whatever burning.

The reserve feat would only deal 1d6, which is far less than 1/4 of 7d6, and there is not mentioned that it would set things on fire or be improved by metal. 3.5 damage in average is not very much you get for a feat slot. I am sure my mage might be able to deal the same with a sling...

Can we build our own reserve feat, willpell, which could be a bit more powerful ?

7d6 are in average 7 x 3.5 = 24.5.
1/4 of that would be 6.125.
How about just rolling the dice of the spell it is based on and then dividing it by 4? That way the reserve feat would scale too and have the same feats as the spell it represents. Else it becomes weaker the longer we play, since it would not improve at all. At the next level it would already by 2d6, twice as much as the feat would have.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:06 pm

Nerre wrote:hm, those reserve feats are quiet weak.
They are not. They let you keep zapping every round until the end of time, even while tied up and gagged.
I thought it would be around 1/4 of the actual spell. Since the lightning bolt scales, it would be nice to have the reserve feat scale too.
It does scale - with the grade of spell you give it. Yes, gaining 1 level adds 1d6 to your lightning bolt and nothing to the reserve feat, but then gaining another level lets you select a 4th-level lightning spell which can power your reserve feat better.
Right now, lightning bolt would be 7d6 on everything in the path of the lightning, and it would set things on fire and gets stronger if I hit metal things (like armor and weapons for example), some metals even would melt! Like the old spell "heat metal" being build in, and also having possible damage over time to enemies by their clothing, surrounding or whatever burning.
You are reading way too much into this. The spell does these things only if it says it does, and maybe not even then.
I am sure my mage might be able to deal the same with a sling...
With a wizard's base attack bonus and probably not much Strength? Don't count on it.
Can we build our own reserve feat, willpell
Maybe....
which could be a bit more powerful ?
...no, absolutely not. Spellcasting characters are already far and away the most powerful characters in the game; I will do them no favors whatsoever. In fact, as much as possible I try to add complications and restrictions to them, making them more flavorful but also sharply constraining their power, which otherwise is basically infinite. Fighters I try to power up a little (though I'm conservative about it); mages I will not give any breaks to. Heck, you're lucky I didn't ban the reserve feats, which are way more effective than you're giving them credit for.

If you're concerned that your mage isn't powerful enough, it's probably because you're trying to build a blasty mage type; these are not powerful in 3.5. But even if you devote half your spell slots to Evocations, just the other half will probably end up making you absurdly powerful compared to other characters. Grease is a level 1 spell which, even with my refusal to let you do tricks like setting the grease on fire, can reduce an entire platoon of fighters to a slapstick comedy troupe, who can't even stand up, let alone swing their swords without dropping it. Glitterdust blinds everyone in the radius, rendering them helpless; I had to houserule Sleep so that it doesn't let you just execute every creature with 4 or fewer HD by Coup-De-Gracing them while they're out. Wizards, and to a lesser extent sorcerers, can rape the game seven ways from Sunday without even trying; fireballs and lightning bolts are pretty much their least effective tools, but even these deal damage which bypasses most of the target's defenses and can wipe out large numbers of creatures all at once. Unless I throw a lot of Spell Resistance and Antimagic Fields at you, you'll be unlikely to ever feel outclassed.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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