July 28, 2016: Seriously?

[RocketScientist]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/07282016-2/

New Comic.

That's a lot of leaking into this realm happening in the borders, there.

[Krulle]

Not just in the borders.... Why else would Complains become schezophrenic?

Complains hand changed heftily through the touch of the AoP...
(one less finger)

I find there is some stuff to discuss, especially in view of the Ogre Mryorg, who was a previous AoP owner....
( http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20110705.jpg )
Mryorg's story seems to span months, but from what we're told here, just very few acts of Mryorg should've been enough to end the AoP.




Also: the transcription:

► Show Spoiler

Big Ears: I've doomed this entire realm. Why did I ever think I could do this? I don't know why I became a paladin.
Complains of Names: I do. So others don't have to.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Complains of Names. They will betray you. They see you as a demon.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They fear you.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They lie to you. Soon they'll try to kill you. They know that as a demon, only you will survive the new Hell-Realm. They're jealous.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They know your name. Once you're a full demon, they'll speak your name and control you. Kill them. Kill them all.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Before it's too late.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): You have demon blood. This means that just touching the Axe will speed up the Sacred escape and further turn you into a demon. Take the Axe. Take the Axe and doom them all.

Complains of Names: Seriously? We're doing this now? This totally overused trope?

Thaco: What?
Complains of Names: The Axe of Prissan is doing that cliched thing where the unseen Big Bad, talks in the mind of one character and drives him insane until he kills everyone.

Big Ears: Wait, what? The Axe is talking to you? I didn't hear anything. And... You're going to kill us?
Complains of Names: No! I'm saying I'm not going to kill you!

Thaco: So out of the blue, you decided to tell us all that you're... not going to kill us, Um... Thanks?
Complains of Names: Well don't say it like that! You make me sound crazy!

Complains of Names: Am I seriously the only one here, who's familiar with this lame plot device?! Look, it's very simple! The over powered villain exploits my fears and insecurities until i snap and do something crazy and get you all killed!
Thaco: Okay, Complains, calm down. Do not do anything crazy.
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Complains of Names: I'm trying to tell you that I'm not going to do anything crazy! I know what the demon in this axe is doing, because I'm aware of the trope! So it won't work on me! It can't get me to do something crazy if I know...

SFX: RRUUUM
Complains of Names: Oops.

SFX: MMMBLLL
Minmax: Um...
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Oh crap.
Thaco: Is the cliched voice in your head now laughing at you and calling you a sucker?
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

unshaded version, pencilled version

[Rndom]

It seems like the broken sphere thing in the Axe is actually messing up the panels in the comic. The black sticky web thing is emanating from it and messing up the borders.

quick edit: and is it just me, or did Complains's touch to the sphere actually seem to fix/heal it? and it's now glowing? Perhaps Complains is (going to be) the demon that destroys the realm? or maybe the (assuming) demon in his head?

[Guus]

That's pretty much an action you'd expect from Fumbles instead of Complains. Why did he grab the thing? How was that a logical response? Is it like Banner in the Avenger suddenly holding the staff?

I don't get it

[SirButcher]

Not just in the borders.... Why else would Complains become schezophrenic?

Complains hand changed heftily through the touch of the AoP...
(one less finger)

I find there is some stuff to discuss, especially in view of the Ogre Mryorg, who was a previous AoP owner....
( http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20110705.jpg )
Mryorg's story seems to span months, but from what we're told here, just very few acts of Mryorg should've been enough to end the AoP.




Also: the transcription:

► Show Spoiler

Big Ears: I've doomed this entire realm. Why did I ever think I could do this? I don't know why I became a paladin.
Complains of Names: I do. So others don't have to.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Complains of Names. They will betray you. They see you as a demon.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They fear you.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They lie to you. Soon they'll try to kill you. They know that as a demon, only you will survive the new Hell-Realm. They're jealous.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They know your name. Once you're a full demon, they'll speak your name and control you. Kill them. Kill them all.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Before it's too late.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): You have demon blood. This means that just touching the Axe will speed up the Sacred escape and further turn you into a demon. Take the Axe. Take the Axe and doom them all.

Complains of Names: Seriously? We're doing this now? This totally overused trope?

Thaco: What?
Complains of Names: The Axe of Prissan is doing that cliched thing where the unseen Big Bad, talks in the mind of one character and drives him insane until he kills everyone.

Big Ears: Wait, what? The Axe is talking to you? I didn't hear anything. And... You're going to kill us?
Complains of Names: No! I'm saying I'm not going to kill you!

Thaco: So out of the blue, you decided to tell us all that you're... not going to kill us, Um... Thanks?
Complains of Names: Well don't say it like that! You make me sound crazy!

Complains of Names: Am I seriously the only one here, who's familiar with this lame plot device?! Look, it's very simple! The over powered villain exploits my fears and insecurities until i snap and do something crazy and get you all killed!
Thaco: Okay, Complains, calm down. Do not do anything crazy.
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Complains of Names: I'm trying to tell you that I'm not going to do anything crazy! I know what the demon in this axe is doing, because I'm aware of the trope! So it won't work on me! It can't get me to do something crazy if I know...

SFX: RRUUUM
Complains of Names: Oops.

SFX: MMMBLLL
Minmax: Um...
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Oh crap.
Thaco: Is the cliched voice in your head now laughing at you and calling you a sucker?
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

unshaded version, pencilled version

No, this case is COMPLETELY different. The ogre just was a mere ogre, with some demonic knowledge and some tattoo. Complains IS a demon (well, part of him) - not just someone with some knowledge about the demons. Part of him got transformed to a full demon. I still think he weakened the Axe (when grabbed it) - as far as we know Complains is the very first demon who touched the axe EVER.

[Morgaln]

Not just in the borders.... Why else would Complains become schezophrenic?

Complains hand changed heftily through the touch of the AoP...
(one less finger)

I find there is some stuff to discuss, especially in view of the Ogre Mryorg, who was a previous AoP owner....
( http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20110705.jpg )
Mryorg's story seems to span months, but from what we're told here, just very few acts of Mryorg should've been enough to end the AoP.




Also: the transcription:

► Show Spoiler

Big Ears: I've doomed this entire realm. Why did I ever think I could do this? I don't know why I became a paladin.
Complains of Names: I do. So others don't have to.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Complains of Names. They will betray you. They see you as a demon.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They fear you.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They lie to you. Soon they'll try to kill you. They know that as a demon, only you will survive the new Hell-Realm. They're jealous.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): They know your name. Once you're a full demon, they'll speak your name and control you. Kill them. Kill them all.
AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): Before it's too late.

AoP Demon (in the mind of Complains of Names): You have demon blood. This means that just touching the Axe will speed up the Sacred escape and further turn you into a demon. Take the Axe. Take the Axe and doom them all.

Complains of Names: Seriously? We're doing this now? This totally overused trope?

Thaco: What?
Complains of Names: The Axe of Prissan is doing that cliched thing where the unseen Big Bad, talks in the mind of one character and drives him insane until he kills everyone.

Big Ears: Wait, what? The Axe is talking to you? I didn't hear anything. And... You're going to kill us?
Complains of Names: No! I'm saying I'm not going to kill you!

Thaco: So out of the blue, you decided to tell us all that you're... not going to kill us, Um... Thanks?
Complains of Names: Well don't say it like that! You make me sound crazy!

Complains of Names: Am I seriously the only one here, who's familiar with this lame plot device?! Look, it's very simple! The over powered villain exploits my fears and insecurities until i snap and do something crazy and get you all killed!
Thaco: Okay, Complains, calm down. Do not do anything crazy.
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Complains of Names: I'm trying to tell you that I'm not going to do anything crazy! I know what the demon in this axe is doing, because I'm aware of the trope! So it won't work on me! It can't get me to do something crazy if I know...

SFX: RRUUUM
Complains of Names: Oops.

SFX: MMMBLLL
Minmax: Um...
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Oh crap.
Thaco: Is the cliched voice in your head now laughing at you and calling you a sucker?
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

unshaded version, pencilled version

No, this case is COMPLETELY different. The ogre just was a mere ogre, with some demonic knowledge and some tattoo. Complains IS a demon (well, part of him) - not just someone with some knowledge about the demons. Part of him got transformed to a full demon. I still think he weakened the Axe (when grabbed it) - as far as we know Complains is the very first demon who touched the axe EVER.

Very unlikely. Since it was in the possession of paladins for most of the time, there's a strong chance that the axe was used to fight demons in the past. You can't kill them without the axe touching them.

[SirButcher]

No, this case is COMPLETELY different. The ogre just was a mere ogre, with some demonic knowledge and some tattoo. Complains IS a demon (well, part of him) - not just someone with some knowledge about the demons. Part of him got transformed to a full demon. I still think he weakened the Axe (when grabbed it) - as far as we know Complains is the very first demon who touched the axe EVER.

Very unlikely. Since it was in the possession of paladins for most of the time, there's a strong chance that the axe was used to fight demons in the past. You can't kill them without the axe touching them.

As far as I know (and my knowledge is limited here ) in D&D touching (as using) and touching (as getting killed with something) is an entirely different thing. Complains actually used the axe. The other demons got attacked by the axe. Like when someone stab you with a magic weapon you can't use its skills, and when you grab the handle of it, you gain access to it special powers - another example: if I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds. But if you ask for my sword and I give it to you, you will get +2 strength.

[Krulle]

touch and control.
Touching the Axe is one thing.
Controlling the Axe gives you the bonuses.

It does not look like Complains is in control of the AoP on this page.
Complains touches, while Big Ears remains in control.

But even then, with all the things Mryorg did, the AoP should have broken when the few acts of Big Ears have weakened the Axe beyond repair. And Saral Caine did want to do good, and likely did quite some good. But he used the Axe in a chaotic manner, neither good nor bad. Some actions may have fueled the powers of the AoP, some may have weakened the AoP. His largest failure was withholding his help from those in need, mostly to please the political game of Goblinslayer.

[Morgaln]

No, this case is COMPLETELY different. The ogre just was a mere ogre, with some demonic knowledge and some tattoo. Complains IS a demon (well, part of him) - not just someone with some knowledge about the demons. Part of him got transformed to a full demon. I still think he weakened the Axe (when grabbed it) - as far as we know Complains is the very first demon who touched the axe EVER.

Very unlikely. Since it was in the possession of paladins for most of the time, there's a strong chance that the axe was used to fight demons in the past. You can't kill them without the axe touching them.

As far as I know (and my knowledge is limited here ) in D&D touching (as using) and touching (as getting killed with something) is an entirely different thing. Complains actually used the axe. The other demons got attacked by the axe. Like when someone stab you with a magic weapon you can't use its skills, and when you grab the handle of it, you gain access to it special powers - another example: if I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds. But if you ask for my sword and I give it to you, you will get +2 strength.

Ah, wielding as opposed to touching, you're right, that's definitely a difference. The axe might indeed never have been wielded by a demon before.

Personally, I think if a demon wielding the axe is this detrimental, the choice of making the prison a weapon was questionable. After all, there's always the chance the owner of the axe is killed by a demon, especially if he is a paladin who would be likely to go out and seek demons to fight. Since the axe is a powerful weapon, the demon would then likely take the axe and use it himself. Something inconspicous, say a belt buckle, would have been a better choice if the prison is that frail. But people have made worse choices in the past and intelligence is a common dump stat for paladins, so...

[Guus]

In the lore the demons don't really work together though. I don't think a demon would want the demon of the axe to escape, because if an all powerful creature messes with your own tasty little torture buffet then you're down the deep end too. A demon might even go as far as making sure the axe finds its way back to a Paladin.

Although I agree that having a weapon as the prison of a powerful demon might not be the best idea, maybe they simply didn't have a choice. An Anymug of Prissan is a lot less interesting in my opinion too

[Generic]

What is wierd is THAC0's "out of the blue"-comment. That was not out of the blue, Complains explains quite well why he said it. This is also very characteristic of Complains (of plot devices).

I like this page. I like the breaking of the frames going on. It is a very other worlderly and good way of showing that something "other" is going on. It's nice to see the Axe of Prison doing something that is not a wall of text. We see something going on. And it's as wierd for us (the formating has changed) as it is for the characters.

Good page. I like.

[Wolfie]

The last frame makes me smile and shake my head. It's something characters in my D&D games have said before.

[Mereneth]

Complains hand changed heftily through the touch of the AoP...
(one less finger)

I saw that too, but going back through the pages to before the axe broke all indication is that he has 3 fingers on his right hand in those pages.

edit Went further back, he's been missing that finger for a while it looks like.

[spiderwrangler]

Complains hand changed heftily through the touch of the AoP...
(one less finger)

I saw that too, but going back through the pages to before the axe broke all indication is that he has 3 fingers on his right hand in those pages.

edit Went further back, he's been missing that finger for a while it looks like.

Yup... about 2 seconds longer than he's been part demon.

Panels 8 and 9.

[Krulle]

My fault. Thanks for pointing that out.
The colour of his hand still seems off after touching.

[friedkitty]

It seems to that it is a buildup of all of the evil stuff done over time, with less good to repair it. All of the stuff Mryorg did damaged it, the stuff Saral did damaged it more, and the good deeds done in between were not enough to repair the damage. It may have only taken Caine one or two more acts to open the axe, but Big Ears repaired it a little. Not enough to prevent one bad thing done by a Paladin from cracking it open like an egg though.

My question is this. If Big Ears has done something bad enough to crack the Axe, shouldn't he lose his paladin status?

[spiderwrangler]

The colour of his hand still seems off after touching.

As does the row of scales down his front, but I think we have to wait until the final shaded version is up before we can say it means anything.

[Punzil504]

Complains, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

[RocketScientist]

And Saral Caine did want to do good, and likely did quite some good. But he used the Axe in a chaotic manner, neither good nor bad. Some actions may have fueled the powers of the AoP, some may have weakened the AoP. His largest failure was withholding his help from those in need, mostly to please the political game of Goblinslayer.

Ears specifically detected that Saral Caine was "really evil." I doubt he did much more good than Goblinslayer did.

[Krulle]

Yet, on the same page, Saral wants to investigate why someone is in pain/is screaming, and only stopped by Goblinsalayer. http://www.goblinscomic.org/02112007/
And next page specifies the Axe is really evil....

That was the page I was thinking about when writing the cited post...

[SamWiser]

And Saral Caine did want to do good, and likely did quite some good. But he used the Axe in a chaotic manner, neither good nor bad. Some actions may have fueled the powers of the AoP, some may have weakened the AoP. His largest failure was withholding his help from those in need, mostly to please the political game of Goblinslayer.

Ears specifically detected that Saral Caine was "really evil." I doubt he did much more good than Goblinslayer did.

Could that be the axe that was making BE see him as evil? I'm not sure how it works, exactly.

[RocketScientist]

Maybe, but we have no reason to think that. He participated in torture. His best friend was about as evil as they come. And all of the Brassmoon elites were evil (sorry, I can't find the page where we were told that the white elites were evil and the blue regular guards weren't). Good guys don't generally recruit groups entirely composed of evil people.

As for investigating the screaming, that was kind of his job. And when GS said not to go making the guards look better, he went along with it.

[DragonStryk72]

No, this case is COMPLETELY different. The ogre just was a mere ogre, with some demonic knowledge and some tattoo. Complains IS a demon (well, part of him) - not just someone with some knowledge about the demons. Part of him got transformed to a full demon. I still think he weakened the Axe (when grabbed it) - as far as we know Complains is the very first demon who touched the axe EVER.

Very unlikely. Since it was in the possession of paladins for most of the time, there's a strong chance that the axe was used to fight demons in the past. You can't kill them without the axe touching them.

As far as I know (and my knowledge is limited here ) in D&D touching (as using) and touching (as getting killed with something) is an entirely different thing. Complains actually used the axe. The other demons got attacked by the axe. Like when someone stab you with a magic weapon you can't use its skills, and when you grab the handle of it, you gain access to it special powers - another example: if I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds. But if you ask for my sword and I give it to you, you will get +2 strength.

It is, but the statement on the sword was that the barrier was based on evil actions. Unless Thunt is saying that saving your friends while fighting to stop a genocidal maniac is somehow evil, then this, again, should in no way weaken the barrier, regardless of who is touching it. I mean, think about it: Paladins fight demons, they're a regular thing for Paladins, especially paladins of level to have an artifact like this. I mean, what, the seal breaks with a grapple/disarm check from a demon? Weapon-clinching is a regular occurance in combat.

[SamWiser]

Maybe, but we have no reason to think that. He participated in torture. His best friend was about as evil as they come. And all of the Brassmoon elites were evil (sorry, I can't find the page where we were told that the white elites were evil and the blue regular guards weren't). Good guys don't generally recruit groups entirely composed of evil people.

As for investigating the screaming, that was kind of his job. And when GS said not to go making the guards look better, he went along with it.

True. While he seems to be the "better" of the duo, that could easily just be because we don't know as much about him.

[Gift Fastidious]

Why did he grab the thing? How was that a logical response?

I thought he was just absentmindedly doing a kind of talking-with-his hands-thing, to draw attention to the thing he was talking about.

Also, if he does become a full demon controlled by anyone who knows his names, then his name could in fact be even more true than before.