The Lost Mines of Phandelver OOC

[GathersIngredients]

Also, @lurks, I wanted to ask you, but I forgot until now. What's the figurative meaning of "being on the wagon", that you mentioned?

[spiderwrangler]

It's most commonly heard in reference to people trying to stop drinking, I think it may have it's roots in the Prohibition era in the USA. If you're abstaining from drink, you're 'on the wagon', if you start drinking again, you've 'fallen off the wagon'.

[GathersIngredients]

Wow. In that case: What triggered that kind of attitude, lurks?
She's had TWO beers. It's not like she has a drinking problem.

[spiderwrangler]

It need not always be that extreme, it can be used a lot more casually.

For example, asking a friend if they want to come out for a beer or two, they might reply that they tied one on a few days ago, or are feeling bloated, or plan to go to the gym in the morning, etc. so are 'on the wagon' for the night and won't be drinking.

I think Lurks was more just commenting that Saca may be dealing with enforced sobriety during the next few days, with the double meaning of 'on the wagon' (unless she walks ) making it more humorous.

[Lurks_In_Shadows]

Spider is spot on in terms of my intent.
My apologies Gathers . I am afraid I'm guilty of an "Americanism". I'm not sure that the joke really applies or would be understood anywhere else since it references a specific movement in US history, the Temperance movement. Spider was again quite correct in his explanation.
As a general rule I try to avoid those kind of "insider Jokes" when I'm in an international forum, but I goofed this time.

[GathersIngredients]

I'm quite happy with people using idioms, figures of speech etc. that are native to their language. How else will I learn about them, but by hearing them and thus getting the chance to ask about them?
I am, however, not so thrilled with the implication that just because Saca verily enjoys (good) beer when its available, "involuntary sobriety" for any length of time will be a problem for her. It's kind of like you're implying that she prefers being drunk to being sober, and thus far you/your char hasn't even seen her drunk yet.

I might be a tad touchy on the subject, because IRL I hardly ever drink anything (it doesn't taste good to me), and I get made fun of or "questioned" for that quite regularly. Usually my chars don't really drink either (because I try to stick to what I know. I wouldn't know how to play a drunk - as I never have been in my life - nor how to portray a hangover - at least not first-hand - etc.), at least not "on camera".
Saca is basically the first char that I have ever depicted drinking and enjoying alcohol in any form, and I'm fairly annoyed that she now, got made fun of for that, too. Especially after Kryz wanted beer, but didn't get it and Aimee even filled her whole waterskin with wine this morning, so she can't even hydrate herself currently, without an external source of water (I think she only got one waterskin), so there's lots of other "targets" to make fun of with the topic of alcohol, if you're so inclined. And they are all bound to ride the "wagon" (I only saw it mentioned as a cart, I'm not sure if there is a difference) at some point, too.

[spiderwrangler]

I hesitate to speak up again, especially as the 'new guy', since I think my initial explanation conveyed a more serious 'bad' impression to you than intended, and it's not my place to tell you how to feel, or put words in Lurk's mouth, but I can guarantee that he was not trying to maliciously demean your character in the fashion you've taken it.

Your character is by far the most invested in the art and science of making and drinking beer... going without for the trip would logically affect her more than those who more casually participate. As someone with real life proficiency with brewer's supplies (ie, I brew beer at home), I am certainly a lot more invested in the enjoyment of beer than the average person off the street, and if I choose to, or circumstances required that I go without having a beer for an extended amount of time, and someone made the comment that I'm 'on the wagon', it would be something to be met with a chuckle and something along the lines of "yeah, for now!". That's not to say that for some people sobriety is not an difficult and hard earned necessity of life, and for them it isn't a joking matter, but I think you're reading too much into an offhand comment/double meaning for being on the wagon.

Good on you for stepping outside your comfort zone to try to RP a character with different interests, but I don't think anyone is out to unfairly target Saca to be 'made fun of'.

[Rodgeir]

I can second that I have never head the phrase of being 'on the wagon' in any context that wasn't friendly, and almost always when there is a literal wagon/cart involved (I take this from my relatives and friends in the U.S.). Honestly it is kind of a dad joke, sorry Lurks and being a dad I, of course, chuckled.

Just to clarify what Aimee is doing with the wine, she is going to mix it with water she finds along the trip to kill the stuff that can make her sick. Easier and quicker than boiling. Hopefully there will be water along the way (in the wagon?), because otherwise she is going to have to mooch .

[Lurks_In_Shadows]

No offense, Rodgeir, especially since I'm a dad myself.

Again, I apologize, Gathers, if I accidentally offended you. Such was not my intent.

[GathersIngredients]

Lurks, thank you, your apology is appreciated.
I wasn't trying to continue to argue, my intention was to clarify what bugged me and why. Also to encourage you (and everyone else) to keep using idioms and such.

[GathersIngredients]

Just to clarify: Are our chars moving yet, or standing still while yakking? If the former, can we please all get a move on?
We're on a schedule, after all.

[SamWiser]

Yes, your characters are moving. The real adventure is starting as soon as I get the next post up (in like 5 minutes)

[GathersIngredients]

Yay. I hope you didn't feel rushed, I just didn't want us to stand around uselessly, yakking the day away, when all of us are capable of talking while walking/riding the cart. ^^

[SamWiser]

That was max damage on both Kryz and Aimee. Definitely bad luck.

Also, since we are now getting into the more technical aspects of D&D, if any of you think I am misusing/misreading/misunderstanding/etc. a rule, please feel free to bring it up. As the DM, I will, or course, have the final say, but I want to make sure I run a fair game for everybody. Let me know if you think I'm not doing that very well.

[GathersIngredients]

I'm just asking noob questions here, not calling you out on anything, because what the hell do I know about rules/mechanisms.

The goblins got to go first, because it was an ambush, right?
The perception and the readied action with the crossbow were useless against that?
How far/fast can goblins move?
How far are the goblins away from Saca (who is at the back of the cart, as we had established)?
How are the goblins equipped (other than scimitars and short bows)?
How do I roll initiative? (I found that Saca has a modifier of 0, but I don't know what kind of dice I roll...)
What exactly can a char do in one round of combat? I'm assuming move, attack and/or cast a spell, but I could be wrong.
What is a "bonus action" (e.g. the spell "shield of faith" lists that under casting time)?

[SamWiser]

I'll try to answer them all.

Yes, the goblins go first because it was an ambush.
Your perception rolls weren't useless. Goblins are just really stealthy. If I had rolled lower on their stealth, or some of you had rolled higher, the ambush would have been ruined.
Goblins can move 30 ft/round.
Exact distances are hard to gauge without creating a map, but I'm going to say that the sword goblins could just reach her with their full movement, while the bow goblins couldn't.
The goblins just have the weapons you can see. No noticable alternate weapons or armor.
For initiative, you roll a d20. Since you have no modifier, whatever you roll is your place in the fight order.
I believe (but I could be wrong) that a character can move, attack (spell or melee), and have one bonus action, if they have something that let's them use it. So, Saca can move, attack, and use shield of faith in one round.
You can also ready an action, like Balin did. Basically that counts as your action for that round, but you hold off for a certain trigger. (Like Balin readying his crossbow for an attack. You could also say something like "if the goblin moves toward me I run away".) So Balin's readied action means he will be able to attack before this round is over.

[GathersIngredients]

Thanks for answering all the questions.

However, if a readied action means that a char gets to act in that same combat round, shouldn't have Balin and Saca have been able to shoot their crossbows after the goblins did their stuff, but before that combat round was over? Granted, neither of us defined a trigger, but still, the intention of self-defence was fairly clear...

Also, since Saca only has 25 ft. speed, can she reach the scimitar goblins in one move or not?
Oh, and is there any cover available (other than the cart)?

[Rodgeir]

Adding to Sam's comments -

On the perception rolls - The goblin's must have rolled 22 or higher on their stealth (which is possible because they have a +6 on stealth). This means that Balin could have never seen them, even with his critical success. Sometimes that is the way it goes.

Here is a useful sheet with everything you can do in a combat turn/round.

The readied action requires a trigger. I ready my crossbow to fire if X happens, your readied action consumes your reaction. BUT they cannot be used outside of combat (per Sage Advice, the DnD rule makers clarifying the rules).

[GathersIngredients]

Thanks, Rodgeir, that helps immensely.

So after everyone rolled initiative, everyone gets a turn to post their actions and then everything gets done one after the other, or do we get reactions to whoever's turn it is immediately?
E.g. if Balin goes first, shoots a goblin, do we get the results of that after his turn, so we can see that the goblin was hit or not, how much damage it took etc. or do we have to do a lot of guesswork, because we won't know if the goblin gets damaged until it is our respective turn?

[Rodgeir]

We should get feedback after every action so we can plan our actions accordingly. If Balin hits we will be told before the next person's turn.

Reactions can happen during another person's turn and Sam will let us know. So if, for instance, the goblins attacking Kryz move away without taking the disengage action Kryz could choose to use his reaction to attack one of them before they move out of his range.

[spiderwrangler]

That's one of the things that is tougher on forums, since it's not as easy to go turn by turn when folks are on at different times and frequencies.

However, you could teach the class on conditional game actions so it's reasonable to post an alternate action (I'd steer clear of much more than that!). Eg, I attack the goblin that attacked me, or if that one is dead, I shoot the one by the forest...etc.

It kind of seemed like the goblins got a surprise round? Which isn't technically a thing in 5e. Usually the way an ambush works is that once it's started, everyone rolls initiative. Based on situation, the ambushees may be considered surprised.

"If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t."

So initiative order would be set, and turns would be taken, skipping anyone who is surprised, after which they are no longer surprised. If the whole party is surprised, then the ambushers do get a round of attacks, but it is slightly different from the surprise round of older systems.

[Rodgeir]

Yes, not an ambush but we were all surprised for a round.

Based on these initiative rolls we may be permanently 'surprised' soon. Heres hoping the goblins don't roll really low.

[spiderwrangler]

We want them to roll low, so we get a chance to go before them!

[Rodgeir]

Got interrupted typing that and changed what I was planning on writing, thanks for the correction! Don't want to confuse Gathers because I don't re-read my posts...

[SamWiser]

That's one of the things that is tougher on forums, since it's not as easy to go turn by turn when folks are on at different times and frequencies.

However, you could teach the class on conditional game actions so it's reasonable to post an alternate action (I'd steer clear of much more than that!). Eg, I attack the goblin that attacked me, or if that one is dead, I shoot the one by the forest...etc.

It kind of seemed like the goblins got a surprise round? Which isn't technically a thing in 5e. Usually the way an ambush works is that once it's started, everyone rolls initiative. Based on situation, the ambushees may be considered surprised.

"If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a Reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t."

So initiative order would be set, and turns would be taken, skipping anyone who is surprised, after which they are no longer surprised. If the whole party is surprised, then the ambushers do get a round of attacks, but it is slightly different from the surprise round of older systems.

Thank you for the clarification on the surprised condition. After combat starts, not a complete surprise like that.

I figure there are two ways we could do combat in this game. Turn by turn, which would give everybody the most useful chance at tactics and data, but I also feel it might drag, especially if I can only do one or two updates per day.
Or, everybody could post their action (with a conditional alternate action if desired) and I could make a larger group update, and clarify individual actions as needed. That's what I'm used to in the games I have played on this forum. It usually works pretty well, but I've noticed that larger fights can get confusing, and it can be a pain if your waiting on one individual member to post ( but that can be a problem with the first option, too)

Does anybody have an opinion on which we do, or which seems easier as a whole?