Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

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Dusk9
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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:23 am

Okay, time for a bit of a proper explanation, methinks...

As you've all probably noticed (because to be honest, how could you not) I've been preeeetty bad at updating frequently or really at all over the past couple of months or so. As I mentioned in my other post, there are a lot of reasons for this: exams/reports/revision/other uni stuff; illnesses (fuck colds/coughs so much); traveling (went to Poland for New Year, which was fun); and, of course, pure laziness/"relaxation time" (I spent a lot of December watching the Yogscast Livestream stuff or playing Civ 5, for example).

But really, a lot of those are just excuses. Even with it all sucking up my time, I've had plenty of opportunities to get out at least one update a week or something, instead of the frankly pathetic once a month I've been doing. The reason I haven't is simply that.....well, it wasn't really fun anymore. Writing out a post, going through the battle calculations....it all just seemed too much like more hard work. The motivation was just gone.

Now, I've been thinking pretty hard about why that might be. Because I do want to keep running this thing - I've invested too much to just let it end. So I've been trying to figure out why it went from something that was fun and cool and interesting to a boring chore, and how to fix that problem. And in the course of doing so, I've had a pretty big realization.

The main reason for my lack of motivation is basically regret. Early on I made some decisions on stuff like mechanics and lore and other stuff that I now regret doing, simply because it's making more work for me in the present. I either have to figure out how to make it all fit together, or try and just brute force my way through with wonky patches, which feels really jarring for me. It's all really little, minor stuff, but the sheer amount is enough to make it tough to deal with, and make updating a pain.

But, I've been dealing with that stuff for ages now. And there's nothing else I can really do about it other than just deal with the problems as they come up, and take the occasional break to deal with the burnout. So there's really no point getting into it too deep.

The second issue is much more important, mainly because it's actually fixable - to put it simply, when it came to making the Ground/Rock Gym, I bit off more than I could chew. Four back-to-back 6v6 battles are quite the grind even at the best of times, but I thought you guys could handle it. What I didn't consider was the effect it would have on me. The problem is, I've basically been running the same battles simultaneously for five different people, which on top of the regular burnout stuff really wore me down faster than I was anticipating it would. I mean, some of you aren't even halfway through, and I still feel like it's just too much to handle. Combined with all the other little stuff, I basically defaulted to my "I don't want to deal with this" frame of mind, which is this really bad apathetic mindset I've been trying to get out of my life for a while now, precisely because it messes with stuff like this.

So, getting to what I suppose is my main reason for writing this post. Would you guys be alright with me changing the format of the gym so that every non-Leader you fight in the Gym is a 3v3 battle instead of 6v6? So the format becomes three 3v3 battles followed by a 6v6? I just think I would help make things easier for all of us to deal with, and get us past the Gym stuff onto some more fun stuff faster.

The reason I ask is because I can see it being both beneficial and detrimental to you all. On the one hand, you'll get less exp for winning, and the people who've already beaten a lot of the Gym (i.e. Mace and Zyph) will have a relative exp advantage over you from just defeating more Pokemon. But on the other, you get a potentially easier fight since you can avoid using 'mons that are weak to your opponent, and be a bit more tactical with stuff.

Sooo...yeah. What do you guys think?

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:42 am

Here is what I think: the rock ground gym? It's waaaay too battle based. I know the guy apparently wanted it streamlined, but that takes away uniquness of the gym and since you got healing machines per level it makes planning a lot less...important.

You cant really get rid of the first two guys, but maybe you can put some terrain difficulty and lessen the battles to 3 vs 3.
And take away the damned machine on the third level. That only makes Zeph more powerful and you more headaches.


The third level...make it like a cave or somethin special where they have to traverse terrain, or find out the secret to get underground. Make it difficult for em without fightin much you know? And if they get way off track well...lets say they may find some steelix or somethin tunnelin. (Hence why the maze) Of course it could be different bt you get the gist.

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Dusk9
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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:02 am

The deal with the Gym is that it was supposed to be heavily combat-based, with a side-focus on terrain management - that's it's "theme". The same way the Grass Gym was based on navigation, resource management, and a little bit of stealth (though nobody's really gone for the stealth option yet), and the Ice Gym is based around weather attrition and dealing with the local wild 'mons.

The issue was that I went overboard, by making the fights 6v6 against trainers with similar power levels to a Gym Leader. My first attempt to fix it was the healing machine introduction, which did work a bit by making it actually possible to win more than one battle. Then we changed Ace Trainers to make them less overwhelming. But the battles themselves are still too grindy, and I'm hoping making them 3v3 will deal with that, at least enough to stop me from getting so bored of running them repeatedly.

The problem with your maze suggestion is 1) I've already done similar with the Grass Gym, and 2) mazes aren't actually that interesting to do via the forum format. They're basically a bunch of repetitive per/int/whatever rolls, which is just really slow on a forum. Especially when I'm not updating as much as I'd like. And cave mazes are basically the equivalent of what you guys go through when exploring caves/mountains in the wild, so it isn't really anything new or special.

By the way, I don't get what you mean about the third healing machine. How is that one worse than the others, and how does that benefit Zyph in particular?

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:15 am

Hmm...well i still think you should get rid of the last healig machine to force them to be rougher off. Why zeph? Well he has the advantage of exp gain, stronger attacks, and be healed every time. Maybe limiting people who arein higher limits to less and less healing means that the leader wont be easier cause you are fully healed and with tons of exp.


Yea the maze was a suggestion but not the only thing you can do.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SuperVaderMan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:32 am

I'm already past the point where this kind of change wouldn't affect me, but if I was near the start like some of the others are, I certainly wouldn't mind. My team is better off than most for this gym, and even then it's not ideal - two of my pokemon are weak to rock attacks. Even then, I'm still having trouble pushing through, even with the changes to Ace Trainer. Trying to get through these fights with the others' teams would be a huge challenge, being forced to go 6v6. Going 3v3 would offer more leeway to those who don't have a whole team suited to the gym.

That, and it would give the gym trainers some leeway to use different pokemon as well, so it's not the exact same team against whatever player you're going against.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by M0rtimer » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:53 am

I know the feeling. All the calculating can at times be a grind, considering that if you're anything like me, it's the story you're really interested in. At the same time though, it's what gives the story context and a means to provide a challenge to the players, which is an enjoyment on itself.

With that being said, I've got one thing to say.

You shouldn't even be asking whether or not it should be changed if this is a detriment to YOUR experience. In the end, both sides should be enjoying this, and if you think things would be better this way, you should do it. Personally, I wouldn't even mind it either.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:08 pm

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Hmm...well i still think you should get rid of the last healig machine to force them to be rougher off. Why zeph? Well he has the advantage of exp gain, stronger attacks, and be healed every time. Maybe limiting people who arein higher limits to less and less healing means that the leader wont be easier cause you are fully healed and with tons of exp.
By "last healing machine" you mean the one after the third trainer, right? Because people are going to need that if they want any chance of beating the Leader. Even with the 3v3 change.

And Zyph is actually at an advantage if there are less healing machines, due to the simple fact that his extra combat abilities mean he doesn't need as much healing as others might. If he can get through a battle using only half his 'mons, while someone else has to use all of their team, he's got an automatic advantage over them. Plus, with Curie there, he can always just use Heal Pulse and that'll be basically the same as a healing machine. So removing the machines really just makes things harder for everyone else.
M0rtimer wrote: You shouldn't even be asking whether or not it should be changed if this is a detriment to YOUR experience. In the end, both sides should be enjoying this, and if you think things would be better this way, you should do it. Personally, I wouldn't even mind it either.
Yeah, I know. I just felt you guys deserved some input, or at the very least a proper explanation.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SamWiser » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:33 pm

Yeah, 3v3 sounds fine. It makes it a little harder to use Dual Wielding, but it's not like I have enough practice to use it to it's full effects yet.
Thanks to Arch Lich Burns for the avatar, and Mnementh for the mustache.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:06 pm

SamWiser wrote:Yeah, 3v3 sounds fine. It makes it a little harder to use Dual Wielding, but it's not like I have enough practice to use it to it's full effects yet.
Speaking of which, since everyone so far seems fine with the 3v3 change, do you want to change who you're sending out for the battle against Fred? 'Cause now you don't have to use Kate at all.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by M0rtimer » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:43 pm

Hmm... Damnit. I really want to slow this thing down, but Bubbles is the only one that could get in an proper hypnosis to do that. And he's being a little bitch and continues being asleep.

We agreed I could use other psychic features while asleep..? Because if so I guess I could stay asleep one turn longer and try to use a hypnosis myself. Which I guess would also mean I can't control a pokemon this turn but you'll randomly decide something..?

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:54 pm

I was actually thinking about changing my ruling on not being able to control 'mons while asleep. If only to make things easier on me :P

As for your other question, yeah, you can still use your Psychic stuff while Asleep.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SuperVaderMan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:56 pm

Hey Dusk, if I have Violet back up out of the Larvitar's range, will the Larvitar be forced to use its turn getting as close as it can? Or what else would happen?

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:05 pm

Yeah, it'll just keep trying to get in range until the Thrash ends.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SamWiser » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:13 pm

Um, I actually can't remember who I sent out, but if I'm only using 3 pokemon, then I'll send out Alexander and Draco, saving Rex for crunch time.
Thanks to Arch Lich Burns for the avatar, and Mnementh for the mustache.

ÔÇ£Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?ÔÇØ
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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dlover » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:25 pm

I think the rock gym debate can do without my input, since it has nothing to do with me and probably won't for a few years yet. :P
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Hunters of Letrua; Character list
Also Player / Monster stats, skill lists.

My characters:
Tugs Tails, the goblin that was sort of a trapper and wears a bear's tail at his neck, for some reason - Lair of the Mountain King (Run by Thinks)
Alex Sparo, A city boy, poor of sight, who has learned to manipulate people and make the most of what he, and others, have - Trinity Isles (Run by Mort)
Mehriv Turajin, a Noble Dragonborn Sorcerer sent from his clan because he wasn't dragony enough. - The Wandering Archipelago (Run by Thinks)

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:28 am

So... Burns pointed me out that since ORAS, ralts can learn some fairy moves by leveling up

I'm just mentioning cuz... Ya know. Having one offensive fairy move might not be a bad idea. :shifty:

edit: it also lowered the levels required to get moves for the gardevoir line to arguably more attainable ones. :shifty:

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Dusk9
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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:42 am

Hmm....the problem I have with updating the movelists of 'mons to fit the new games is that the wikidot, which I use for stating wilds and NPC 'mons, doesn't update. And Bulbapedia is much clunkier for me to use, because copy-pasting is harder, making the whole process slower - it only adds about ~10 seconds per 'move, but when I'm stating up a full team of six 'mons, or multiple trainers for group fights, it quickly adds up.

But that's mostly just whining from me, honestly. Really, I should've started using Bulbapedia ages ago - there are a bunch of typos and missing moves in the tabletop sources, so it's just the more reliable option.

So yeah, feel free to adjust your Gardevoirs to the new movelists. And same goes to anyone else with a 'mon that's changed since the wikidot/pdf were last updated.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:20 am

I know you said that Wyrm wont gain any moves for tutoring but what about Draco meteor? Pretty much all full evolved dragons have it.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:35 am

Yeah, it's a shame that the resources that provide the information we need most conveniently are also the ones that take the longest to update, if at all.

Hell, I've been considering the "fuck it, I'll do it myself" method for a while, but it'd quite the valiant effort to create the program (not to mention fill up the database, dear god) for everything I'd want it to achieve. And ideally I'd want it in a method that everyone would be able to use it, which would likely mean a website. And hosting a website is expensive. (What little free webhosting there is always has a catch... Oh hello webhost I use because I'm a cheap bastard, how are your virus infested ads today? Lovely as always I hope.)

It'd also require me to get off my lazy ass.

Anyways, Callisto then forgets lucky chant and learns... Tough choice, both disarming voice and draining kiss are good. I'll go for disarming voice as it gives me some AOE, and the damage difference/healing factor don't make that much difference. Also auto-hit and ignores allies, which is nice.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:47 am

Well you can use google docs for it right?

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:00 pm

Well yeah, the google doc sheets does an amendable job for what a spreadsheet can accomplish, but the whole goal with building a custom program would be that you can expand on it's possibilities. Mostly focusing on the dm side of things, in that it'd have to be easy to look up any information you'd want. But there's plenty of potential there for players as well- Imagine for example that you'd be able to go to your account, select one of your pokemon, and literally only have to select one of it's moves and click it to roll for that move?

But like I said... While there's obviously room for improvement, it's not that there's an dire need for something of the likes. It's a thought I had, but to actually do it is a different matter. I know this panda guy has been working on a similar project, but it kinda looks abandoned, which is a shame... Still use some of his stuff though.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:22 pm

SamWiser wrote:Um, I actually can't remember who I sent out, but if I'm only using 3 pokemon, then I'll send out Alexander and Draco, saving Rex for crunch time.
Okay, editted the update to include your part;
Dusk9 wrote: Sam

"Well, I promise I won't create one if you don't."
"Heh, deal."

"Yeah, I'm sure. It's a lot easier to focus on just one pokemon, rather than 2 at once. Last time I tried this it went horribly, but I've grown a lot since then as a trainer, and gotten some great new pokemon."
"I'm sure they'll do you proud, kid."
"Anyway, let's get this started."


As Sam releases Alexander and Draco alongside each other, his opponent sends out a sparking Stunfisk and tough-looking Tirtouga, which sit low in the water and wait for their foes to make the first move.

Alexander (13)
Draco (9)
Stunfisk (3)
Tirtouga (1)

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SamWiser » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:57 pm

Thanks. I took my turn.
Thanks to Arch Lich Burns for the avatar, and Mnementh for the mustache.

ÔÇ£Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?ÔÇØ
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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by Dusk9 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:00 pm

SamWiser wrote:Two questions. 1. How do you want me to roll for turns when two pokemon attack. I did it all in the same roll this time, but do you want me to separate it out between pokemon? 2. Team Spirit allows me to add one combat stage to the other pokemon's highest stat. What happens when one pokemon has equal highest stats (like Alexander who is tied for Speed, Def and SpDef)? Do they all get raised for Draco, or just choose one? For now I just raised Def.
1) I don't really mind, you can do it however you want.

2) Pick one.

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Re: Pokemon OoC Chatter, Stats, Ect.

Post by SamWiser » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:19 pm

Thanks. I think I'll stick with defense since that's what Draco has the least of.
Thanks to Arch Lich Burns for the avatar, and Mnementh for the mustache.

ÔÇ£Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?ÔÇØ
ÔÇò Terry Pratchett

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