29 April 2014 - Two Wolves

[RocketScientist]

I'd like a citation from that cartoon girl, because I just checked "motherfuckin' Snopes," and I can't find anything about it.

In fact, I can't find anything definitive either way. But firstpeople.us seems to think it's a Cherokee legend. Which likely means they don't know either, but they like the story and are happy to permit the attribution.

Maybe Bruce Banner wrote it. Because, you know. Smash.

[WearsHats]

Yeah, there's nothing on Snopes. But if you Google "two wolves origin" you find... several other blog posts which explain that it came from Billy Graham, but also without further citations. This post links to a Tumblr post with the comment that the Tumblr post provides excellent sources. Unfortunately, that Tumblr account no longer exists, and I can't find a cached copy.

Meantime, a lot of people seem confused by the origin of it. It's clear that Graham told a version of it back in '78, but it's not clear that he was the first. This HuffPo column attributes it to an Eastern European Orthodox Christian tradition.

Ah, here's another copy of the original Tumblr post. Again, it does show that Graham told a version of the story, but it's hard to prove a negative - that the story never existed before that.

[Kore]

Yeah, there's nothing on Snopes. But if you Google "two wolves origin" you find... several other blog posts which explain that it came from Billy Graham, but also without further citations. This post links to a Tumblr post with the comment that the Tumblr post provides excellent sources. Unfortunately, that Tumblr account no longer exists, and I can't find a cached copy.

Meantime, a lot of people seem confused by the origin of it. It's clear that Graham told a version of it back in '78, but it's not clear that he was the first. This HuffPo column attributes it to an Eastern European Orthodox Christian tradition.

Ah, here's another copy of the original Tumblr post. Again, it does show that Graham told a version of the story, but it's hard to prove a negative - that the story never existed before that.

The story was told in 1965, I can try to find source again... someone elses book has white and black dogs and eskimos.

It is also sort of thing that can be created independently by different groups, change the animal, change the description of good and bad and can be common idea perhaps loosely traceable for thousands of years. (Eg christians commonly have sheep for good side, and either goat or wolf for bad side. Modern stories commonly have tiny angel on one shoulder, tiny demon on other shoulder each whispering in ear, and whoever person listens to wins and gets that person in afterlife)

Cherokee indians afterlife have world above them that has "good" animal and human spirits that help bring balance in our world, and world below that has "bad" witches and evil spirits, etc that cause trouble... sound familiar? Greeks and romans sometimes also had similar ideas.

more off topic, not always clear who borrowed from who

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Yet some versions of the jewish early ideas have no afterlife (eg story about fight between jews who believed in afterlife and who didn't in bible book of acts), or only "resurrected" in future which may only apply to good people, while criminals were thrown into a garbage pit where sulphur was added to help burn and maggots helped consumed the remains, idea of no trace of memory of them. "Wise King Solomon" said the dead were concious of nothing. other writer in bible says dead people are as lifeless as an idol made of wood, unable to feel or do anything. Lazarus was said to be "sleeping" when dead. Jewish and christain prophesies contain many stories about a great rampage by evil followed by much destruction and an end to evil and then a bringing back from the dead of those "worthy" of a second life. One example of this is statue at United Nations building talking about people beating swords and spears into farming implements and no longer having wars.

Vikings/Norse/Druids have somewhat similar story, though in their version reward is to fight in the biggest battle the world will ever see rather than become peaceful farmer. If it was the vikings/norse then you could have same good wolf and bad wolf, but the good wolf would be great warrior, the bad wolf a sickly coward and those who kill own family. (Eg. Scar from Lion King) Some ideas in our culture also come from norse and druids

Most of the big christian holidays tend to fall on or very near the 4 phases of the Sun/seasons (shortest day- christmas, longest day (St. John Baptist), and half way in between (easter), the druids and romans celebrated similar holidays in similar ways, with bunnies (fertility) in spring, evergreen trees, mistletoe, and giving gifts,and lots of fires to celebrate days getting longer in mid winter. (Sun was reborn)

Later church often treated Plato's writings as special, where some of ideas may come from including soul meaning indestructible core rather than breathing. Plato may have borrowed from early egyptians, people don't want death to be the end, so desired that Egyptians constructed massive pyramids using a large portion of surplus labour rather than have luxuries while alive.
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[RocketScientist]

One thing's for sure. Somebody wrote it, and they're not getting royalties or attributions for it. If it originated in 1965, maybe it was a 21 year old George Lucas predicting The Force?