RocketScientist wrote:
Morgaln wrote:I can give you two examples on the forum where people were indeed screamed down for constructive criticism.
The first one was still on the old Keenspot forum
There were no moderators on the Keenspot forum. We moved forum hosts for that specific reason. And everyone over at Keepnspot was... excitable(?) most of the time, myself included. Do I understand correctly that your complaint then is with the general membership of the forum then? And may I ask what you expect a largely different group of people to do about it?
I'm not expecting you to do anything. What I posted were examples for why I did never consider this community a good place to voice criticism and why not everyone might feel this community is as friendly and welcoming as it appears to you.
That said, since Lurks_In_Shadows asked for actual critique, I'm going to tell you about the things that bothers me most about the story. It's what I consider a "story-breaking bug," to adapt a phrase from video gaming.
The comic is called "Goblins: Life through their Eyes" It's supposed to be about Goblins and how they perceive being used as the typical cannon-fodder for low-level adventurers. There are even several main characters who are goblins and they get introduced before anyone else. Only, the story is not really about them. It never was. The story is about a group of humans sitting around a table and playing a game. The goblins get a lot of screentime, but they are not real,
not even within the universe Goblins plays in. They are a bunch of NPCs who were created by a DM called Herbert to use in his story. A DM, I'd like to point out, who has already proven that he does not care at all about the monster NPCs he creates; he's perfectly willing to kill them off randomly just to make a point to his players (as shown by the scene with the crippled orc). That means he didn't even create those Goblins for the purpose of showing the fantasy racism D&D is prone to. They are a plot point, a means to an end to give motivation to his players and to bring them where he wants them so they can face off against the real villains. Every time Minmax and Forgath break character, the immersion we have in the story is shattered and we get reminded that the whole story is just a game thought up by someone living in a basement. It's extremely jarring to be told that the characters that we are supposed to feel with and root for are just stats on a piece of paper and don't even have real people behind them that play them. Before someone says that the GAP might have players too: there is no indication at all of that. They met the three drows, who couldn't stay in character if they tried; if they had been killed by other PCs, we would have known immediately because there would have been out of character accusations. There is also nothing that would lead us to believe that they were later taken over by real humans, as they never get out of character at all.
If you carefully watch the story, the real protagonists are Minmax and Forgath anyway (fitting since they are the PCs), with Minmax being the clear hero of the story. The GAP is pretty much always running away from things; they never actually solve a problem. They just set the stage for the PCs to save the day. Look at Goblinslayer; in the end, it's Minmax and Forgath who take him out; they get to shine by showing their superior morale over him and even get to rescue the damsel in distress (Kin), something at which the GAP pointedly failed. Thaco might have disabled Goblinslayer, but being stuck to a pipe didn't make him defenseless. He had the use of his arms (one of which can grow weapons; ranged weapons, even, so why he didn't just shoot Thaco is beyond me) and probably quite a number of hit points left. Had Thaco actually tried to kill him in that situation, there would have been a very real chance of Goblinslayer killing him. Same goes for Kore. It's Forgath who gets to make the stand against him; he's lower level than the goblins and still does better against Kore than the whole GAP together. I'm not even going into how often Minmax gets to be the hero of the day in the Maze of Many and save the damsel in distress again. It's made worse by the fact that Minmax is very obviously Hunt inserting himself into the comic; same kind of humor, same set of ethics, they even look the same. Just compare pictures of them side by side.
For me, all of that breaks the basic premise of the comic; everything that happens isn't actually real and the story that is supposed to turn the table on RP players makes the human adventurer the focus of the story after all in the end.
The issue cannot be completely fixed without going back and revising the story, which is not something I'd ever expect or ask for. But to salvage some of the potential the original idea had, this is what I would do: Minmax and Forgath would have to move into the background, being reduced to mostly a supporting role for a longer period of time. The GAP would need to come into their own and actually start to shine at something instead of just barely surviving everything only for the PCs to later handle what the GAP couldn't. Minmax and Forgath could have the occasional spotlight, but the GAP would have to be the ones who most consistently solve problems. To keep the audience immersed in the story, the PC's should stop breaking character at all. It's probably too late to keep the usage of very modern words out of the story, but at least things like "hawt" and "ninja'd" should be avoided.
It's sometimes hard for them to remember that just because it's obvious to them, it might not be obvious to us. And THunt has admitted that he sometimes goes overboard with the details. He does seem to be doing better, though.
