Ranting Soapbox

[Comics Lover]

Registered (after several years) just to post it:

I'm a huge fan of various web comics. Been reading them since I was 15 or so, 12 years ago.

I've started reading Goblins several years back, more or less when the main team left the Goblin Village looking for adventures

I especially liked Goblins because of the different setting, story and ideas for dungeons/items and some unique/alternative characters and their motivations (Kik, Lizards, Goblinslayers, Kore). I know graphic aspect is not that good, but I never cared too much about it in any comics as long as the story was interesting.

What I never liked though, was the author (THunt). A massive disappointment who scammed his readers multiple time.
And failed to deliver one page per week (or even per month) hundreds of time - keep in mind that this is his main source of income, his "responsibility" and in a way, his several years old kid.

>1 year hiatus? I can deal with that, he probably has some serious issues....
>Nope
>Just some self-inflicted mental issues with him being opressed (?)

>Wow, cool, comic is back after a year+ hiatus!
Then again
>some other self-inflicted trauma sh** after being accused of encouraging rape + long sosad backstory of his mom (?) and another few months break after progressing with story for literally few pages

A month ago
>Ok guys, I knew I fucked up in the past, but this time I hired a pro colourist, I promise to deliver on schedule (which is 1 (ONE) page per week), maybe more
>I become hyped AGAIN
>whoopise hehe I had a MOUTH surgery so I cannot use my hands or draw for 2 weeks in a row
>sorry guys

FFFFFFFF THIS COMICS, seriously, I'm done.
I'm glad i did not spend a single penny on it and I depise people who did, seeing how he fails to deliver his kickstarter. I always promoted it everywhere and defended it on the internet and real life.
No more. I'm done.

Sorry for the blogpost, checked comic again for any updates and something inside me broke.
Never again I am reading this ^$#@& and I'm officially joining anti-goblin forces.

Bye and good luck guys, go read plenty of better comics, with serious, mature authors who appreciate and respect their readers.

[Krulle]

>1 year hiatus? I can deal with that, he probably has some serious issues....
>Nope
>Just some self-inflicted mental issues with him being opressed (?)

Mental sicknesses are a real issue. Just because they're not visible on the outside does not mean the person suffering is healthy.
People like you aggravate the situation needlessly.

Please don't.

A month ago
>Ok guys, I knew I fucked up in the past, but this time I hired a pro colourist, I promise to deliver on schedule (which is 1 (ONE) page per week), maybe more
>I become hyped AGAIN
>whoopise hehe I had a MOUTH surgery so I cannot use my hands or draw for 2 weeks in a row
>sorry guys ;)

Do you know in how much pain he is because of this? Or if he suffers other drawbacks? Like constant hunger (eating is difficult after such an operation).
I know I would not go to work after such a surgery. Although I also only treat paper and use my hands.

FFFFFFFF THIS COMICS, seriously, I'm done.
I'm glad i did not spend a single penny on it and I depise people who did, seeing how he fails to deliver his kickstarter. I always promoted it everywhere and defended it on the internet and real life.
No more. I'm done.

The kickstarter, I stress again, was NOT run by Thunt. It was with Thunt's agreement, that a games developer was allowed to develop a game and run a kickstarter to finance the game.
That was the main reason why I never supported the kickstarter, I still prefer to buy the game once it's out. (yes, classical consumer: first the product/service, then I pay)

To be honest: Thank you for having followed this comic for years.
Maybe you'll return to it in some years to see how the story went.
But I do not think that in your current state of opinion you'll be missed.

But I do agree with you, that the track record of Thunt has turned bad.
But real life comes before professional life. And alas Thunt got hit pretty hard.
I do not think that his mind is drawing peace from knowing that his only source of income is his comic.
I know it would stress me out not being able to work, and knowing that I should continue to create pages, to earn a tiny bit, but knowing that this might hamper my recovery.
Having all eggs in one basket can be very stressful, which is often again disadvantageous for the work and the mental recovery.

I also agree that he overdid with the quality of details in the comic over the years. Less details, less fancy would've done the story just as well.
But this is his product, and his mindset is one of a perfectionist. Not thinking "good enough", but thinking "this should be better" and "I will improve a bit more there"....

Have fun, read some other comics. And maybe later?

BTW: have you ever read Outsider?

[Glemp]

Comics Lover, how can you say you've been scammed if you never donated anything to the Kickstarter? Plus didn't Thunt reimburse the donor list a while back?

[spiderwrangler]

Plus didn't Thunt reimburse the donor list a while back?

Don't think so... he never possessed the funds raised via kickstarter, so doesn't have the $ to do so. I believe he has stated his intent to make good on it by producing the game on his own, without the benefit of the funds raised to do so, and make that available in some form to the donors.

[0z79]

>1 year hiatus? I can deal with that, he probably has some serious issues....
>Nope
>Just some self-inflicted mental issues with him being opressed (?)

Mental sicknesses are a real issue. Just because they're not visible on the outside does not mean the person suffering is healthy.
People like you aggravate the situation needlessly.

Please don't.

A month ago
>Ok guys, I knew I fucked up in the past, but this time I hired a pro colourist, I promise to deliver on schedule (which is 1 (ONE) page per week), maybe more
>I become hyped AGAIN
>whoopise hehe I had a MOUTH surgery so I cannot use my hands or draw for 2 weeks in a row
>sorry guys

Do you know in how much pain he is because of this? Or if he suffers other drawbacks? Like constant hunger (eating is difficult after such an operation).
I know I would not go to work after such a surgery. Although I also only treat paper and use my hands.

FFFFFFFF THIS COMICS, seriously, I'm done.
I'm glad i did not spend a single penny on it and I depise people who did, seeing how he fails to deliver his kickstarter. I always promoted it everywhere and defended it on the internet and real life.
No more. I'm done.

The kickstarter, I stress again, was NOT run by Thunt. It was with Thunt's agreement, that a games developer was allowed to develop a game and run a kickstarter to finance the game.
That was the main reason why I never supported the kickstarter, I still prefer to buy the game once it's out. (yes, classical consumer: first the product/service, then I pay)

To be honest: Thank you for having followed this comic for years.
Maybe you'll return to it in some years to see how the story went.
But I do not think that in your current state of opinion you'll be missed.

But I do agree with you, that the track record of Thunt has turned bad.
But real life comes before professional life. And alas Thunt got hit pretty hard.
I do not think that his mind is drawing peace from knowing that his only source of income is his comic.
I know it would stress me out not being able to work, and knowing that I should continue to create pages, to earn a tiny bit, but knowing that this might hamper my recovery.
Having all eggs in one basket can be very stressful, which is often again disadvantageous for the work and the mental recovery.

I also agree that he overdid with the quality of details in the comic over the years. Less details, less fancy would've done the story just as well.
But this is his product, and his mindset is one of a perfectionist. Not thinking "good enough", but thinking "this should be better" and "I will improve a bit more there"....

Have fun, read some other comics. And maybe later?

BTW: have you ever read Outsider?

ROFL, or Power Nap, which hasn't updated in two months.. Outsider updated their page recently, saying that he'd lost all his art assets and had to re-install everything, but nothing else to report.

[Krulle]

Outsider's recently was in October..... That status update was due to complaints by someone in the forum.
Last page was in April.
We now have March...

[Catmandont]

Registered (after several years) just to post it:

I'm a huge fan of various web comics. Been reading them since I was 15 or so, 12 years ago.

I've started reading Goblins several years back, more or less when the main team left the Goblin Village looking for adventures

I especially liked Goblins because of the different setting, story and ideas for dungeons/items and some unique/alternative characters and their motivations (Kik, Lizards, Goblinslayers, Kore). I know graphic aspect is not that good, but I never cared too much about it in any comics as long as the story was interesting.

What I never liked though, was the author (THunt). A massive disappointment who scammed his readers multiple time.
And failed to deliver one page per week (or even per month) hundreds of time - keep in mind that this is his main source of income, his "responsibility" and in a way, his several years old kid.

>1 year hiatus? I can deal with that, he probably has some serious issues....
>Nope
>Just some self-inflicted mental issues with him being opressed (?)

>Wow, cool, comic is back after a year+ hiatus!
Then again
>some other self-inflicted trauma sh** after being accused of encouraging rape + long sosad backstory of his mom (?) and another few months break after progressing with story for literally few pages

A month ago
>Ok guys, I knew I fucked up in the past, but this time I hired a pro colourist, I promise to deliver on schedule (which is 1 (ONE) page per week), maybe more
>I become hyped AGAIN
>whoopise hehe I had a MOUTH surgery so I cannot use my hands or draw for 2 weeks in a row
>sorry guys

FFFFFFFF THIS COMICS, seriously, I'm done.
I'm glad i did not spend a single penny on it and I depise people who did, seeing how he fails to deliver his kickstarter. I always promoted it everywhere and defended it on the internet and real life.
No more. I'm done.

Sorry for the blogpost, checked comic again for any updates and something inside me broke.
Never again I am reading this ^$#@& and I'm officially joining anti-goblin forces.

Bye and good luck guys, go read plenty of better comics, with serious, mature authors who appreciate and respect their readers.

I don't get it... I don't get what compels a human being to feel that they 'deserve' something from another person without reason... Now, Comic Lover never stated that, but the intent rings out in his post.

Yes, Thunt sucks at deadlines and schedules. If you've been following him for more than a few years, this is obviously something that will never change. Not being negative, just pragmatic. So, you either accept this as the normal flow of Goblins or you don't. I've been a reader since the beginning of 'Book 4', so roughly the end of 2009. I've seen the issues with Blind Ferret, 'Mom Rape', Kickstarter, forum hosts, Tempt's Fate, etc etc... and I'm still around.

Why?

Well, Comic Lover, I actually LOVE this f***ing comic, AND I don't feel that Thunt owes me shit. I wish that he would just say 'Updates when I feel like it' and stop making promises that he may not be able to keep in the long term, as it always seems to be 'something' that prevents a consistent schedule.

But, I don't find it necessary, as a rational human being and adult, to unload with a stream of negativity to back up your reasons to quit reading a web comic. I've stopped reading PLENTY of online periodicals for many reasons, and not once did I feel the need to spray feces in their faces when I left. Looking For Group springs to mind; I stopped reading them after the fiasco with Goblins. Just stopped.

Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean that anyone needs to hear it... Like MINE!!!

So, good luck to you and I hope that the wounds inflicted by this comic heal in time.

[Guus]

Seriously? Get off your high horse. I get your point, but it makes sense for someone to complain somewhere the person feels his opinion will be heard. If something is negative, and it affects you, it is logical to voice that in a place where people will at least understand where you are coming from.

We've had the "does someone owe me something when he/she puts something on the internet" multiple times on the forum, especially during the hiatus. It's a useless discussion, because people use different parameters for the discussion. However, wording yourself as adult and implying with that the viewpoint of the other is childish is rather useless and quite frankly toxic. So you are willing to forgive Hunt's antics more than Comics is. Good on you. His/her issues are legit, their problems with it are also legit. His/her decision to actively complain and abandon the comic are also legit. You might disagree, but the arguments don't come from nowhere. Let the person have their moment to vent. If it was totally unfair I'd agree with you, but Comics has a point, and a reason for their decision and action. Might be good to actually respect that and disagree in a constructive way, like Krulle did.

[Comics Lover]

Mental sicknesses are a real issue. Just because they're not visible on the outside does not mean the person suffering is healthy.
People like you aggravate the situation needlessly.

Please don't.

I understand that and that's why I accepted the one year+ hiatus and never complained about it (that is, until now, but not becuase of "mental issue" per se).

Do you know in how much pain he is because of this? Or if he suffers other drawbacks? Like constant hunger (eating is difficult after such an operation).
I know I would not go to work after such a surgery. Although I also only treat paper and use my hands.

Yep, I had some serious nose surgery some years back, I know the pain and lack of motivation, but thanks to pain killers and some good care I was able to be back on my feet in few days. I understand everyone is different though and I really try to get into thunt's perspective. But it's not the first time.

The kickstarter, I stress again, was NOT run by Thunt. It was with Thunt's agreement, that a games developer was allowed to develop a game and run a kickstarter to finance the game.
That was the main reason why I never supported the kickstarter, I still prefer to buy the game once it's out. (yes, classical consumer: first the product/service, then I pay)

To be honest: Thank you for having followed this comic for years.
Maybe you'll return to it in some years to see how the story went.
But I do not think that in your current state of opinion you'll be missed.

But I do agree with you, that the track record of Thunt has turned bad.
But real life comes before professional life. And alas Thunt got hit pretty hard.
I do not think that his mind is drawing peace from knowing that his only source of income is his comic.
I know it would stress me out not being able to work, and knowing that I should continue to create pages, to earn a tiny bit, but knowing that this might hamper my recovery.
Having all eggs in one basket can be very stressful, which is often again disadvantageous for the work and the mental recovery.

I also agree that he overdid with the quality of details in the comic over the years. Less details, less fancy would've done the story just as well.
But this is his product, and his mindset is one of a perfectionist. Not thinking "good enough", but thinking "this should be better" and "I will improve a bit more there"....

Have fun, read some other comics. And maybe later?

BTW: have you ever read Outsider?

I know precisly about kickstarter situation and I never said it was ran by Thunt - only because of his poor managment he was once again distracted by something else than his main work - comic.

"I do not think that his mind is drawing peace from knowing that his only source of income is his comic."
Is he? I think he is better off than most of people around. Again, I do not care about his personal financial situation or how he gets his money. I would love to support the comic (as I am already doing with few others online comics which I enjoy), but the constant "promises" and failures to meet them have successfully held me back from doing so. And I'm glad it did.

Never read Outsider, but apparently I visited the comic few months back, seeing my google results. Why asking? Updates problem as well? (are you people masochists?)

Comics Lover, how can you say you've been scammed if you never donated anything to the Kickstarter? Plus didn't Thunt reimburse the donor list a while back?

I am not talking about Kickstarter (which I, simialrly to Krulle, despise), rather about Fate's Tempt (which was never finished) and several "actions" launched by Thunt. But it's people money and they are free to throw it into the mud however they want.

Don't think so... he never possessed the funds raised via kickstarter, so doesn't have the $ to do so. I believe he has stated his intent to make good on it by producing the game on his own, without the benefit of the funds raised to do so, and make that available in some form to the donors.

I think he was working on it on his own after the original company fucked up, but similarly to the comics, the endless postpones and lack of updates killed the board game (was it even the large demand for it in the first place? As I said, another distraction from the comics).

I don't get it... I don't get what compels a human being to feel that they 'deserve' something from another person without reason... Now, Comic Lover never stated that, but the intent rings out in his post.

Yes, Thunt sucks at deadlines and schedules. If you've been following him for more than a few years, this is obviously something that will never change. Not being negative, just pragmatic. So, you either accept this as the normal flow of Goblins or you don't. I've been a reader since the beginning of 'Book 4', so roughly the end of 2009. I've seen the issues with Blind Ferret, 'Mom Rape', Kickstarter, forum hosts, Tempt's Fate, etc etc... and I'm still around.

Why?

Well, Comic Lover, I actually LOVE this f***ing comic, AND I don't feel that Thunt owes me shit. I wish that he would just say 'Updates when I feel like it' and stop making promises that he may not be able to keep in the long term, as it always seems to be 'something' that prevents a consistent schedule.

But, I don't find it necessary, as a rational human being and adult, to unload with a stream of negativity to back up your reasons to quit reading a web comic. I've stopped reading PLENTY of online periodicals for many reasons, and not once did I feel the need to spray feces in their faces when I left. Looking For Group springs to mind; I stopped reading them after the fiasco with Goblins. Just stopped.

Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean that anyone needs to hear it... Like MINE!!!

So, good luck to you and I hope that the wounds inflicted by this comic heal in time.

Good for you, man. As I stated in my OP, I just had to share my discontent and maybe make others think about the formula. And as I stated, I've been reading the comics since...apparently 2006 (just checked the archives).
I never ASKED or felt as if Thunt were obliged to provide me with anythings. As stated above,I'd love to pay for several pages per week of Goblins. I've checked Pantheon, luckily Thunt has some self respect and it's per page, not per month (as with most (all?) of webcomics).


So good luck for all of you, and for thunt, hope he will someday improve his mental situation and schedule discipline.

[Catmandont]

Good for you, man. As I stated in my OP, I just had to share my discontent and maybe make others think about the formula. And as I stated, I've been reading the comics since...apparently 2006 (just checked the archives).
I never ASKED or felt as if Thunt were obliged to provide me with anythings. As stated above,I'd love to pay for several pages per week of Goblins. I've checked Pantheon, luckily Thunt has some self respect and it's per page, not per month (as with most (all?) of webcomics).


So good luck for all of you, and for thunt, hope he will someday improve his mental situation and schedule discipline.

This is why your response in baffling to me... I'm going to assume that you're absolutely sincere and base my diatribe on that fact.

You've been through it all! Everything, and still hung on and remained a reader up until now. Don't get me wrong; I get it... It's been a frustrating ride. Not to sound unsympathetic to Thunt, but I've even got to the point where I exasperatedly state "What now?" whenever a deadline goes well past the expected date. It's always 'something'.

Moreover, I, like you (apparently), want to see how this story ends and have invested several years into following it to conclusion. I'm clocking in at just over 7 years, and you approximately 11.

...

So, you're well aware of the issues Thunt is faced with...
Did he make terrible business decisions? The outward facing evidence leads me to say 'yes'.
Could he maintain a strict schedule? No, he couldn't; this isn't news, as we've seen with the Blind Ferret days and ultimate 'falling out' (if you want to call it that).

I could go on, but you see my point... We have been in the front seat of the theater of Thunt's psyche for quite some time, and have ACCEPTED this as the norm... Your visceral reaction can only come from a place of both love and frustration; love of the comic and frustration of someone's mental state that you don't understand. I feel the same way. This emoji explains it all...


But, I'm staying and supporting Thunt. I made my choice, as have many others. While I understand your desire to leave and can somewhat support your decision, I can't excuse some of your statements such as ".. I'm glad i did not spend a single penny on it and despise people who did..." You got out of it exactly what you put in... You didn't pay Thunt to write Goblins, and he didn't pay you to read it. I'm sure that you personally have made minimal (if any) effect on his income based on click through rates on advertising, so that's not a factor. As to each of us who HAVE spent money on Goblins; we'll live just fine with your hatred.

Seriously? Get off your high horse. I get your point, but it makes sense for someone to complain somewhere the person feels his opinion will be heard. If something is negative, and it affects you, it is logical to voice that in a place where people will at least understand where you are coming from.

We've had the "does someone owe me something when he/she puts something on the internet" multiple times on the forum, especially during the hiatus. It's a useless discussion, because people use different parameters for the discussion. However, wording yourself as adult and implying with that the viewpoint of the other is childish is rather useless and quite frankly toxic. So you are willing to forgive Hunt's antics more than Comics is. Good on you. His/her issues are legit, their problems with it are also legit. His/her decision to actively complain and abandon the comic are also legit. You might disagree, but the arguments don't come from nowhere. Let the person have their moment to vent. If it was totally unfair I'd agree with you, but Comics has a point, and a reason for their decision and action. Might be good to actually respect that and disagree in a constructive way, like Krulle did.

Read the above Guus.

I don't care if Comics decided to leave, he has that right and I can sympathise. I don't have to respect Comic's venom toward 'those who gave Thunt money'.

[Guus]

[thinkslogically]

... I don't think comics lover can see this any more because s/he doesn't meet the post count requirements, right?

nvm

[Krulle]

Never read Outsider, but apparently I visited the comic few months back, seeing my google results. Why asking? Updates problem as well? (are you people masochists?)

Apparentky I am getting to be one, but the reward is a good story....

Outsider is around since at least 16 years, and has only 112 pages until now. Heck, I'm waiting to post the "one year since last update" post in the next days....

But I stay to show the artists behind these slow comics that there is still interest in some form of conclusion. The more stay, the likelier the comic doesn't just die. But that is my choice I took deliberately. Just like joining the forums for the same reason.

Good for you, man. As I stated in my OP, I just had to share my discontent and maybe make others think about the formula. And as I stated, I've been reading the comics since...apparently 2006 (just checked the archives).
I never ASKED or felt as if Thunt were obliged to provide me with anythings. As stated above,I'd love to pay for several pages per week of Goblins. I've checked Pantheon Patreon [correction by K], luckily Thunt has some self respect and it's per page, not per month (as with most (all?) of webcomics).


So good luck for all of you, and for thunt, hope he will someday improve his mental situation and schedule discipline.

Thank you, and many of us agree that the core of the issue of slow, unsatisfying update needs to be addressed (just like Thunt himself recognised). But it is difficult if real life hits you, and your mindset bring of a perfectionist.
Alas his mind is optimising the pages to perfection, andnot optimising the artwork/ update balance for maximum viewership reach.
He is an artist in that regard.

Again, thank you, and possibly sometime you'll come along again and binge-read the archive and the new stuff.

[WorldWarIV]

I'd be perfectly happy with whatever if Thunt would just stop announcing those new schedules he hopes to stick too this time. Gives me hope every time...

[Morgaln]

Never read Outsider, but apparently I visited the comic few months back, seeing my google results. Why asking? Updates problem as well? (are you people masochists?)

Apparentky I am getting to be one, but the reward is a good story....

Outsider is around since at least 16 years, and has only 112 pages until now. Heck, I'm waiting to post the "one year since last update" post in the next days....

But I stay to show the artists behind these slow comics that there is still interest in some form of conclusion. The more stay, the likelier the comic doesn't just die. But that is my choice I took deliberately. Just like joining the forums for the same reason.

I don't know anything about Outsider, but at this update rate, I assume that whoever the author is doesn't live off the comic. And for me, that's the crux of the matter. Hunt has made Goblins his sole source of income. He's expecting to get enough revenue from the comic to finance his life. That means I will hold him to different standards than someone who does this as a hobby. Like any other job, it requires discipline. You can't just stay home from your job without consequences, whether you're employed or self-employed. If for some reason you can't go to work, you will have to tell those who you are working for. That's where I can agree with comiclover on those people who do pay for the comic. Paying for a sloppy job enables Hunt to treat his paying job as a hobby and will send the message that he doesn't need to change anything

That doesn't mean he can't ever miss an update, but it means that he has to plan in advance. He can set up a schedule and stick with it. He can prepare filler content in advance that he can post if a page is delayed. Most importantly, he needs to communicate with people. If he has an operation coming up, that's not a sudden and unexpected event. He can set aside a certain amount of time for recovery and announce that in advance. If he doesn't have the discipline to do this without outside influence, being self-employed is not the correct life choice for him.

[WearsHats]

Things Thunt has been doing this year:

1. Drawing the comic.

2. Finishing G:AR. Which was never supposed to be his job. Let's be clear. He licensed Goblins to a gaming company and drew some extra art for them. That was supposed to be the extent of his involvement. He got a small licensing fee and a commission for the extra art. Everything else went to Evertide, who then folded. Which hurt Thunt's reputation and scuttled several other big licensed projects when those other companies backed out over the PR disaster. So he took it upon himself to revamp the game at his own expense, in the spare time he didn't have in the first place.

3. Working to get another major Goblins project (which he's been hinting at for a while now) off the ground.

4. Discovering that he needed major surgery to replace parts of his skull due to an infection which had been silently spreading for over 30 years. Which was found in the follow-up to serious dental surgery.

He went right back to work after the surgery, but found he couldn't keep it up. Which I think, when your face has been cut open to replace a chunk of your skull, is quite understandable. So he took some time off, which actually let him watch a movie with his wife for the first time in months instead of just sitting at his desk drawing all the time.

But by all means, tell him that he's not meeting your standards in how he runs his life.

[0z79]

I'd just like to say, as a person who is mentally ill to the point of disability (high-functioning autism and PTSD are hella co-morbid), I completely understand if Thunt doesn't want to sit up and draw while he heals from what amounts to facial reconstructive surgery. Being unwell physically on top of underlying mental illness is something that many, like senor whiny-pants upthread, could never hope to understand. The real irony is that kind of person always says "It's all in your head", without realizing that the head is EXACTLY what is fucked to begin with. OF COURSE it's "in my head", you ravenous twit! That's what's wrong with me in the first flippin' place!

Anyway, negative dudes.. if you want more story from this talented individual, then maybe you shouldn't be fuckin' with them on the forum for their comic. They used to be a regular, speaking with people here... until, well. *clears throat*

What were you saying about mental illness?

[Guus]

See? Different starting points.
One group argues: "it happens too often that Hunt makes a promise, then breaks it, while he should be either less open about his goals or more upfront and organized about when he can't uphold what he says".
The other group says: "he has his problems and those are legit, it's bad to fall over someone that has to deal with issues".

One group talks about business and communication, the other about feelings. No one is argueing that Hunt doesn't have legit troubles, just that he deals with them in a wrong way when je communicates to his fanbase, which leaves people dissappointed. That dissappointment leads to frustration, have it happen enough times and you'll just give up. The complaints are not about Hunt's issues, but about how he handles his business and communicates about it.

This discussion has barely been properly adressed so far, because every time it comes up people argue from two different starting points. To the point that it's, as I said before, useless.

[0z79]

I do appreciate people's frustrations, but in an effort to make my contribution seem less "worthless", I'll further outline my "starting point" as one of assuming that the other side of the argument has no empathy. Honestly, I don't think there's any way for us to have a constructive discussion about this issue. I just hope Thunt gets the counseling and support he needs. I personally know how much it can help with one's self-esteem and confidence.

In the past, he communicated much more closely with this community, which is part of what damaged that self-esteem.. since one can never hope to make everybody happy all the time, and given his established OCD/perfectionist tendencies, it seemed to sap his ability to stick with the actual comic..

Anyway, call me any variation of foolish you want, but I'll continue to have faith in the guy, wish him a speedy recovery and wish him the best. BTW, did you know that dental issues will exacerbate mental health issues, since the nerves are so close to the brain? And given the area which needed to be replaced, I'd wager that it had a non-negligible impact on everything else.

If nothing else, I'm very curious to see where it goes from here. Especially since I also have noticed the impact of removing rotten, old teeth and repairing the good ones.

[Guus]

Oh, I am full with you on the point of letting Hunt work out his issues, be it mental or physical, and get in the right state of mind to get back to the comic with love and vigor. The man means well, and he deserves to be healthy, something I suspect isn't just around the corner right now.

I think you are mistaken when you call people "unempathetic" though. It's not so much that they don't feel empathy, but that they've been let down again and again by Hunt's antics, which may very well be reasonable, but have been handled pretty poorly in at least the last two years. I don't mind the happenings personally, because I'll see what happens, and I don't mind the delays/issues/whatever you want to call it. However, I do find it frustrating when people bring up valid points of criticism, although sometimes vitriolic, being dismissed because we should be careful about Hunt's well being. The people complaining the loudest, like Comic Lover, are people who genuinly love his work. The way his work, and more importantly, his work ethic/making promises he can't/doesn't keep develop, dissappoints, and at some point it becomes the final straw. This happened several times on the forums, and every time it took a lot of energy just to try and get on an equal playing field. Heck, even your statement of what your starting point is shows that you don't consider the connection Comic Lover made during the more than ten years he followed the comic.

Regarding Hunt's mental issues, even though it's a bit goulish to keep bringing them up: I am pretty sure he doesn't have any form of PTSD, as he and others suggested. I do however think he got a burn-out, which is a pretty serious afflction on his own. Whatever it is/was, and whatever he is dealing with now, I genuinly hope that he'll come out of it as a balanced and happy person. I don't know what exactly it is (aside from the pretty clear dental/facial issues), and frankly, I don't really care, it's not my business. I just wish him to be healthy, both physically and mentally, and I'll most likely still be here when he has everything back on track.

[Sessine]

As for me, I'll just say this. I've been patient before, I can keep on being patient. And I will.

I follow a number of webcomics. Some of them update regularly, and when they take a break, they always let readers know when they'll be back. If they can't keep that promise, they say something, and give a new date. Good on them. I do appreciate that. Unsounded, Schlock Mercenary, Freefall, Wilde Life... some of them, you can practically set your clock by.

Others... well, Thunt is far from only one who doesn't keep to a schedule. Order of the Stick, for one. Lackadaisy Cats, for another. The Meek. PS238. Lots of good ones. That's okay. I still really like their comics. I just mark them as "Whenever" and check back from time to time to see if there's been an update. The only way Thunt is different from the others is that he keeps trying soooo hard to be like the first group! But he's not, and I've long ago decided he isn't going to be. No matter what he says, he's still in the "Whenever" group. And that's all right.

[mustache_man]

I don't know anything about Outsider, but at this update rate, I assume that whoever the author is doesn't live off the comic. And for me, that's the crux of the matter. Hunt has made Goblins his sole source of income. He's expecting to get enough revenue from the comic to finance his life. That means I will hold him to different standards than someone who does this as a hobby. Like any other job, it requires discipline. You can't just stay home from your job without consequences, whether you're employed or self-employed. If for some reason you can't go to work, you will have to tell those who you are working for. That's where I can agree with comiclover on those people who do pay for the comic. Paying for a sloppy job enables Hunt to treat his paying job as a hobby and will send the message that he doesn't need to change anything

That doesn't mean he can't ever miss an update, but it means that he has to plan in advance. He can set up a schedule and stick with it. He can prepare filler content in advance that he can post if a page is delayed. Most importantly, he needs to communicate with people. If he has an operation coming up, that's not a sudden and unexpected event. He can set aside a certain amount of time for recovery and announce that in advance. If he doesn't have the discipline to do this without outside influence, being self-employed is not the correct life choice for him.

I agree with you to a point. He doesn't work for the readers, he works for himself. But this only matters to some extent, as I agree with you that as long as his income comes from his work on the comic, keeping his readers happy and interested is part of his "job". Speaking for myself, whenever I give someone money for their work, I expect to be satisfied with it. If I paid a monthly subscription for goblins, I'd be pretty angry at all the delays, but I don't. His patreon is per page, so nobody is directly giving him money for missing updates. He has lost readers before and I have no idea how much of a recovery he's had on reader's numbers, but if he does get to a high number once more and doesn't change the way he goes about this, he will just lose them again, and one day it will be for good.

I've said this before and Guus touched the point again, its not necessarily a matter of how legitimate his reasons are. The point, for many people is that whenever Hunt says he'll update every week, or every monday or every full moon or whatever and misses an update, they get upset. If it happens enough times, they feel cheated, and whenever Hunt annouces a new schedule, all they can think is: "Yeah, right." Some readers never cared or learned not to, but some will eventually reach a breaking point. And anyone that thinks Hunt can get by as a professional counting just on those that don't really care about how often he updates, is delusional.

I do appreciate people's frustrations, but in an effort to make my contribution seem less "worthless", I'll further outline my "starting point" as one of assuming that the other side of the argument has no empathy. Honestly, I don't think there's any way for us to have a constructive discussion about this issue. I just hope Thunt gets the counseling and support he needs. I personally know how much it can help with one's self-esteem and confidence.

It doesn't seem like you appreciate people's frustrations. You're just dismissing them, and this makes any effort in trying to have a conversation useless, because you're basically assuming that anyone that holds a different point of view is a heartless assface. You assume people have no empathy and that might have been the case if that sort of thing never happened, but that fact is this is not a one time incident, this is a pattern. There is always something different. Eventually, people stop caring for the reasons. If this was an actual job, and he had an actual boss, he would have been fired a long time ago. He's self employed, so obviously he has more freedom, but as with any business, leaving your "customers" unhappy is a fast-track for failure.

Anyway, I reached my breaking point a while ago. I've read this comic since 2006 (I think), and it's been a very long while since I believed anything Hunts says about update schedules. So whenever he sets one, I wish he didn't, because I know its going to flop and this sort of discussion is going to flare up again.

And one last think. Sessine, of all the comics you listed I only know OotS and it doesn't have an update schedule. Rich has some sort of medical problem (which he doesn't discuss) that sometimes keeps him from working. And I think one of the reasons its not a huge problem is that there is no schedule at all, so it's hard to get angry about missing updates.

[Comics Lover]

Never read Outsider, but apparently I visited the comic few months back, seeing my google results. Why asking? Updates problem as well? (are you people masochists?)

Apparentky I am getting to be one, but the reward is a good story....

Outsider is around since at least 16 years, and has only 112 pages until now. Heck, I'm waiting to post the "one year since last update" post in the next days....

But I stay to show the artists behind these slow comics that there is still interest in some form of conclusion. The more stay, the likelier the comic doesn't just die. But that is my choice I took deliberately. Just like joining the forums for the same reason.

I don't know anything about Outsider, but at this update rate, I assume that whoever the author is doesn't live off the comic. And for me, that's the crux of the matter. Hunt has made Goblins his sole source of income. He's expecting to get enough revenue from the comic to finance his life. That means I will hold him to different standards than someone who does this as a hobby. Like any other job, it requires discipline. You can't just stay home from your job without consequences, whether you're employed or self-employed. If for some reason you can't go to work, you will have to tell those who you are working for. That's where I can agree with comiclover on those people who do pay for the comic. Paying for a sloppy job enables Hunt to treat his paying job as a hobby and will send the message that he doesn't need to change anything

That doesn't mean he can't ever miss an update, but it means that he has to plan in advance. He can set up a schedule and stick with it. He can prepare filler content in advance that he can post if a page is delayed. Most importantly, he needs to communicate with people. If he has an operation coming up, that's not a sudden and unexpected event. He can set aside a certain amount of time for recovery and announce that in advance. If he doesn't have the discipline to do this without outside influence, being self-employed is not the correct life choice for him.

These are my main "problems" with the comics, very well written.
As I said, I started reading Goblins when I was a teenager, now I have a good job, steady income and I am supporting things I like/liked, by supporting developers of games I might like, supplying comics etc.
I would love to support Thunt as well, but not when he treats his fan base like this, by promising and slapping them in a face, over and over again.

1. Drawing the comic.

2. Finishing G:AR. Which was never supposed to be his job. Let's be clear. He licensed Goblins to a gaming company and drew some extra art for them. That was supposed to be the extent of his involvement. He got a small licensing fee and a commission for the extra art. Everything else went to Evertide, who then folded. Which hurt Thunt's reputation and scuttled several other big licensed projects when those other companies backed out over the PR disaster. So he took it upon himself to revamp the game at his own expense, in the spare time he didn't have in the first place.

3. Working to get another major Goblins project (which he's been hinting at for a while now) off the ground.

4. Discovering that he needed major surgery to replace parts of his skull due to an infection which had been silently spreading for over 30 years. Which was found in the follow-up to serious dental surgery.

1) which he has been doing for the past... 13 years? And still did not work out any kind of schedule, discipline or foresight, seeing how this is his main "responsibility" and job

2) which he put on himself and he has no deadlines for that project, again, allowing him to postpone it forever

3) Hm, why he takes ANOTHER major project when he fails to properly deliver first two? This is really mindblowing

4) Even though I symphatize and hope everything will be fine with Thunt, as Morgaln wrote, those are NOT some random accidents and can be properly handled in advance - like JJ from Questionable Content (not really fan of the comics per se, but to illustrate the point) whose comics is also a main source of revenue and who always keeps the schedule and post some very simple strips for period when he is doing something more important (or some guests comics). So I guess it IS possible to have private life, medical/mental issues and still manage to "do your job".

Average work week has 40 hours, I honestly have no idea how much time it take Thunt to write each page, let's assume it takes him 4h per day, so 20h (maybe less with the new colourist)
G:AR - side project, 10h
Mysterious project - 5h
Planning for next week/month schedule - 5h

Does it seem a lot? I worked with people with serious mental issues, depression and suicidal thoughts, who still managed to work 40/80h per week, in much more stressed environment, with a boss over their head.
I can see why thunt prefers self-employment, but it also takes a price of self-discipline, which he, obviously, does not have.

[Krulle]

Well, to put a bit of oil on the fire:
Blog Post: updates are back on

But the better news is:

I had no idea how much drawing while in pain was affecting my work. I feel better and look at how much better these facial expressions are.

So it does look like he might feel better and get better work done. Which is good, as that will help him feel at ease, which helps with any form of injury.


We'll see how it goes, but as always I am hopeful.

[Sleaw]

Thunt doesn't owe you anything end of story.

Also lol at 'why can't depressed people work 40/80 hours a week for my personal benefit even though I don't pay them anything? =/'