Crazy theory regarding Kin. (spoilers inside)

[Daughter Of Yahweh]

He has already resurrected the entire group nearly two million times. It's the whole set-up for the maze of many. Psimax has outright stated that he knows this group purposely reset themselves if one of them dies. They have access to easy resurrection here so they would be idiots not to continue to take advantage of it. Thunt has made his setting in general unfriendly to resurrecting characters, but when the characters have access to it like they do here they're not going to turn it down just because "Thunt doesn't do it that way".

This.

Everyone is putting their foot down on "no reset". Really guys? It's practically Chekhov's NUKE at this point.

I'm certainly not going to assume that resetting will render everything that's happened up to this point completely moot. Considering all the random factors and the oblivion holes, all of Psimax's miscalculations...I have no idea what could happen if someone tried to reset.

But as a reader I really, REALLY want something to start going right. Hasn't it been obvious to everyone over the last few updates how Thunt's setting up some sort of malfunction theme. Everything is going wrong! For Psimax, for FMK, it's just, NOTHING is working. Too many things are falling apart and too much time is being lost and too many odds are stacking up. I'm seriously ready for the GAME OVER sign to flash in my face already. I think things are all just sliding faster and faster into failure and it's almost gotten to the point where the only way to save anything is to reset. Seriously, like, Forgath or Minmax are probably going to die in the next page or so. We'll hit bottom.

And then Thunt will pull the most epic, freaking twist EVER.

I'm just going to sit back and wait for it.

[abu]

Hi guys... I registered a while ago but this is my first post i believe.

Just chiming in to point out that Psion Minmax just destroyed all the keys in the previous page...

So this is a no exit situation that would call either for a anticlimactic reset; or a BIG twist...
... I'm inclined to expect the latter =D

Possibly involving "our" Minmax going after the Psion with the oblivion blade?
Or what if the Psion's destructive powers are just some kind of mind illusion that are gonna fade if he dies?

[RJJ7]

If they get Psimax through the exit, the very next page can show them exiting the maze of many after ten million runs. We don't need to see them run the maze again - the climax is defeating Psimax, preventing the maze from being oblivioned and ensuring their eventual victory.

Yes, but can you imagine the damage this would do to the story? They would retain no memory of having defeated Psimax, all of the character development we have seen would be flushed down the toilet, and it would be no different--in terms of story effect--than if Kin woke up and realized that she'd dreamed the entire thing and that they still hadn't entered the maze (other than the fact that they would now have magic items). We, the readers, would have to "forget" all of the character development that we've seen. It would be a mess, and one that Thunt is canny enough to avoid.

Thunt has made his setting in general unfriendly to resurrecting characters, but when the characters have access to it like they do here they're not going to turn it down just because "Thunt doesn't do it that way".

You are missing one of the key points. Obviously, the characters within the story will reset if at all possible. However, because that would result in an anti-climax that would create an unsatisfying story, Thunt won't allow them to reset. That's part of what being a good storyteller is: Preventing your characters from mucking up your plot.

Now, all of my objections fall to the ground if they reset and retain their memories. If Thunt can do that, then great. I will sit and applaud with everyone else, happy that a great character will live to see another day. However, Thunt will have to come up with a really good explanation for it; otherwise, it will come across as the author forcing his plot into unlikely situations. I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it more likely that Thunt is going to do something else; something that won't be such an easy fix-all.


Personally, I think that Kin is going to die. I don't want her to die, but I don't see any other result that would have as powerful an effect on the story. This thing happening was BIG, and if we don't get a BIG effect on the story, it will all have been false advertising. That said, if Thunt can come up with something big that involves her living THEN PLEASE TAKE IT THUNT!!!

[Krulle]

If they get Psimax through the exit, the very next page can show them exiting the maze of many after ten million runs. We don't need to see them run the maze again - the climax is defeating Psimax, preventing the maze from being oblivioned and ensuring their eventual victory.

Yes, but can you imagine the damage this would do to the story? They would retain no memory of having defeated Psimax, all of the character development we have seen would be flushed down the toilet, and it would be no different--in terms of story effect.

Yet, this may be important to us (as readers).
Maybe they do reset, and loose their memory.
But when Minmax reaches for his longsword, somehow his hand grabs Oblivious (now unnamed), and our party is totally confused (passing the first room as a free gift, thus having a head-start on all others). And they still mess up PsiMax's calculations, forcing him to meet them to find out how (the unknown variable), and Kin makes him talk, thus getting more information about what happened this run.

Wild guess, though.

[spiderwrangler]

You do know that spoilers and rampant speculation aren't the same thing, right?

[Insane Kitty]

You do know that spoilers and rampant speculation aren't the same thing, right?

Except when this post started, was when the previous comic was out, and anyone reading this first, would know something happened to her tail before reading. Which would be a spoiler.



On another note, I was thinking, when you see the goblins with utter shock on their face when you hear "Hi Names, Remember me" I am wondering if that is because MM is carrying out Kin, and they are seeing her close to dead, and no tail.

[Jon Snow]

If they get Psimax through the exit, the very next page can show them exiting the maze of many after ten million runs. We don't need to see them run the maze again - the climax is defeating Psimax, preventing the maze from being oblivioned and ensuring their eventual victory.

Yes, but can you imagine the damage this would do to the story? They would retain no memory of having defeated Psimax, all of the character development we have seen would be flushed down the toilet, and it would be no different--in terms of story effect.

Yet, this may be important to us (as readers).
Maybe they do reset, and loose their memory.
But when Minmax reaches for his longsword, somehow his hand grabs Oblivious (now unnamed), and our party is totally confused (passing the first room as a free gift, thus having a head-start on all others). And they still mess up PsiMax's calculations, forcing him to meet them to find out how (the unknown variable), and Kin makes him talk, thus getting more information about what happened this run.

Wild guess, though.

Ok, that actually makes a lot of sense to me.

[FleesFromTrees]

One teeny tiny problem with that theory Krulle.

The original statement includes them forcing psimax out of the maze.
So he won't come and find them to see why his calculations are wrong this time, as he's not even there anymore

[kaeroku]

He has already resurrected the entire group nearly two million times. It's the whole set-up for the maze of many. Psimax has outright stated that he knows this group purposely reset themselves if one of them dies. They have access to easy resurrection here so they would be idiots not to continue to take advantage of it. Thunt has made his setting in general unfriendly to resurrecting characters, but when the characters have access to it like they do here they're not going to turn it down just because "Thunt doesn't do it that way".

This.

Everyone is putting their foot down on "no reset". Really guys? It's practically Chekhov's NUKE at this point.

I'm certainly not going to assume that resetting will render everything that's happened up to this point completely moot. Considering all the random factors and the oblivion holes, all of Psimax's miscalculations...I have no idea what could happen if someone tried to reset.

But as a reader I really, REALLY want something to start going right. Hasn't it been obvious to everyone over the last few updates how Thunt's setting up some sort of malfunction theme. Everything is going wrong! For Psimax, for FMK, it's just, NOTHING is working. Too many things are falling apart and too much time is being lost and too many odds are stacking up. I'm seriously ready for the GAME OVER sign to flash in my face already. I think things are all just sliding faster and faster into failure and it's almost gotten to the point where the only way to save anything is to reset. Seriously, like, Forgath or Minmax are probably going to die in the next page or so. We'll hit bottom.

And then Thunt will pull the most epic, freaking twist EVER.

I'm just going to sit back and wait for it.

I agree that Thunt seems to be writing everyone into a corner. No keys = no escape. The theory everyone's tossing around about forcing PsiMax to win doesn't work since NOBODY has the keys now. Our heroes are separated, Kin is in dire straits, Fograth's mace is gone. They have two (three?) things going for them: healing potion, Oblivious, and "seeing." Healing potion isn't enough, as we know. Seeing has limitation we DON'T know about. Oblivious has both limitations and extraordinary abilities.

Kin's potential for regeneration is irrelevant until they are out of their current situation. The possibility of suicide (reset) seems to give PsiMax the advantage, as he'll remember all from this run and be able to respond to it more effectively given time to prepare. Throwing PsiMax into an O-Hole and resetting seems a legit possibility - though as many have said, seems unlikely as a cop-out for the story. That leaves... MinMax pulling off something with Oblivious, some greater effect of the "seeing" yet to be revealed, or some other major unrevealed and thus unfathomable twist.

Definitely looking forward to the next part of this story. And the Altsplanations page up now is a terrible tease!

[Krulle]

BTW, what happens if the MoM has a failsafe against the destruction of the keys?

Since the keys have been destroyed we have not seen any image showing the "loot room" behind PsiMax.
Intentional?
Because it might be that the giant statue there has started to move to find out what happened to the keys.
The intention of the MoM is, that one group wins.
Maybe the giant statue opens the door and then grabs PsiMax as he's obviously the one having everything under control and therefore being the winner. (Just another wild guess and theory of mine - ignore as you see fit)

[Zigit]

I just had a thought, if the keys never existed, then the end would have to be different, right? Maybe you don't need a key at all, or something different will appear in the tower room?

[Rheios]

I have two thoughts: 1 - Does getting killed with Oblivious, perhaps, recreate any of the effects of the oblivion holes as well? Like if you kill someone with oblivious, are they more permanently dead? We haven't seen any evidence of that, but it's an interesting question with regards to if they killed Psimax and escaped, what would happen next time the maze reset for like Vengencemax (Vengence! To the Max!) and the others.

2 - I'm going to guess that its Kin talking after they've used the jade teapot. She's the one saying, "do you remember me?" Now what tone that voice has inspires me to questioning. Is it possible Kin has gone a little nuts and intends some retribution for being left behind? Or is it a more solid greeting of "Hey, remember me? You tried to help save me along with everyone else"?

I'm really interested to see if Thunt really does bind the two groups together. What with the goblin's cleric having died and the rest of them in bad shape. (Albeit, I'm concerned because Kore is supposed to kill Forgrath too.)

[stevedj]

He has already resurrected the entire group nearly two million times. It's the whole set-up for the maze of many. Psimax has outright stated that he knows this group purposely reset themselves if one of them dies. They have access to easy resurrection here so they would be idiots not to continue to take advantage of it. Thunt has made his setting in general unfriendly to resurrecting characters, but when the characters have access to it like they do here they're not going to turn it down just because "Thunt doesn't do it that way".

This.

Everyone is putting their foot down on "no reset". Really guys? It's practically Chekhov's NUKE at this point.

I'm certainly not going to assume that resetting will render everything that's happened up to this point completely moot. Considering all the random factors and the oblivion holes, all of Psimax's miscalculations...I have no idea what could happen if someone tried to reset.

But as a reader I really, REALLY want something to start going right. Hasn't it been obvious to everyone over the last few updates how Thunt's setting up some sort of malfunction theme. Everything is going wrong! For Psimax, for FMK, it's just, NOTHING is working. Too many things are falling apart and too much time is being lost and too many odds are stacking up. I'm seriously ready for the GAME OVER sign to flash in my face already. I think things are all just sliding faster and faster into failure and it's almost gotten to the point where the only way to save anything is to reset. Seriously, like, Forgath or Minmax are probably going to die in the next page or so. We'll hit bottom.

And then Thunt will pull the most epic, freaking twist EVER.

I'm just going to sit back and wait for it.

I agree that Thunt seems to be writing everyone into a corner. No keys = no escape. The theory everyone's tossing around about forcing PsiMax to win doesn't work since NOBODY has the keys now. <snip>

Interesting thought, though. In THunt's tweetings, he said that he is drawing lots of... hmmm, maybe better spoiler this...

► Show Spoiler

He is drawing lots of magic items for awhile now. That sounds to me like somebody is somehow getting into the treasure room in the next strip. Perhaps Kin has fainted (or even dropped below 0, but not hit -10 yet) so she cannot talk. PsiMax, maybe he doesn't have what is needed, but knows of some magic object in the treasure room, so he goes there (just sorta opening a hole in the glass wall like he does so well with rock walls) and collects something to revive Kin, at least enough to talk.

Now, whether or not he steps into the first circle (claiming victory) is a separate theory - though I would guess that if he does, he will end up in an o-hole so the maze forgets he claimed victory, allowing Forgath to do so.

[Rolls_Many_Dice]

Something to remember: "When the serpent becomes your prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate"

Forgath's death was predicted in a battle with another dwarf that ends badly for both him and Minmax... with lots of screaming. So one thing we know is that those 2 must end up in front of Kore (who is most likely the other dwarf) we last saw Kore chasing our goblin heroes where they and their arch abruptly stopped with a Jade IME Kwa-Foooom! and the phase "Hi Names, remember me?" Now I see this as Minmax porting in from using the Jade teapot (Probably followed moments later by Forgath) It is a safe assumption to believe the serpent that becomes Forgath's prey is actually Kin. (Why he does this I can see as a number of possibilities - will have wait and see. For now ignore the "Why" aspect) With this condition met the rest of the saying makes perfect sense. This being said implies that Kin must make it out of the Maze in order for her to be "the prey" in front of another dwarf (Kore) that kills Forgath.

So working backwards in time... we see all 3 have escaped the Maze. How they do it I this will be based on creative roleplaying. All obvious ways out are blocked so look for the unobvious. Even with the keys gone, I doubt the magics of the treasure room door would stop Oblivious from cutting through it. We have already seen the Teapot on the wall. Even though the Maze says you exit through the circle ("Verily the first to enter the circle of blue shall be victorious, and so the victors shall return to their land of home by entering the red"), the teapot will still teleport you to any person so in a way there are really 2 ways out.

But first they have to deal with Psimax. We know Minmax is going to get there some how because what DM would pass up the set up for the epic showdown? Psimax will not be able to mental squish Minmax's weapon which will confuse him at least briefly. It is possible that he gets bull rushed/ knocked through the 2 circles and wins on accident thereby starting a reset (perhaps where the adventures hurriedly use the teapot to get away). Personally I hope that our reality does escape leaving Psimax in there beaten. Hopefully in a way that, when the maze resets itself, the Kin and Forgath from his reality get to have revenge. (Since Psimax isn't resetting neither are his powers so without rest he would be outta juice) In any case I don't see our heroes resetting in the maze.

Side note: If I am right, I will purposely reset the maze so none of you remember reading this thereby avoiding the inevitable lynch mob.

[BuildsLegos]

You're forgetting that the Viper clan is also a candidate for the role of "serpent".

[Sheeva]

Something to remember: "When the serpent becomes your prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate"

Forgath's death was predicted in a battle with another dwarf that ends badly for both him and Minmax... with lots of screaming. So one thing we know is that those 2 must end up in front of Kore (who is most likely the other dwarf) we last saw Kore chasing our goblin heroes where they and their arch abruptly stopped with a Jade IME Kwa-Foooom! and the phase "Hi Names, remember me?" Now I see this as Minmax porting in from using the Jade teapot (Probably followed moments later by Forgath) It is a safe assumption to believe the serpent that becomes Forgath's prey is actually Kin. (Why he does this I can see as a number of possibilities - will have wait and see. For now ignore the "Why" aspect) With this condition met the rest of the saying makes perfect sense. This being said implies that Kin must make it out of the Maze in order for her to be "the prey" in front of another dwarf (Kore) that kills Forgath.

So working backwards in time... we see all 3 have escaped the Maze. How they do it I this will be based on creative roleplaying. All obvious ways out are blocked so look for the unobvious. Even with the keys gone, I doubt the magics of the treasure room door would stop Oblivious from cutting through it. We have already seen the Teapot on the wall. Even though the Maze says you exit through the circle ("Verily the first to enter the circle of blue shall be victorious, and so the victors shall return to their land of home by entering the red"), the teapot will still teleport you to any person so in a way there are really 2 ways out.

But first they have to deal with Psimax. We know Minmax is going to get there some how because what DM would pass up the set up for the epic showdown? Psimax will not be able to mental squish Minmax's weapon which will confuse him at least briefly. It is possible that he gets bull rushed/ knocked through the 2 circles and wins on accident thereby starting a reset (perhaps where the adventures hurriedly use the teapot to get away). Personally I hope that our reality does escape leaving Psimax in there beaten. Hopefully in a way that, when the maze resets itself, the Kin and Forgath from his reality get to have revenge. (Since Psimax isn't resetting neither are his powers so without rest he would be outta juice) In any case I don't see our heroes resetting in the maze.

Side note: If I am right, I will purposely reset the maze so none of you remember reading this thereby avoiding the inevitable lynch mob.

Ok, I'm throwing this out there regarding the quote on the Treasure Room door: "Verily the first to enter the circle of blue shall be victorious, and so the victors shall return to their land of home by entering the red". (assume that each circle is only used once.)

What if Psimax were to be thrown into the Red, which would return him to his home? (I know it says "victors" but it could have been written under the assumption that only the victors would reach the room.) Since he doesn't "win" because he never entered the blue, the maze would not reset, but Psimax would be dispatched.

This might allowing FMK to get the jade teapot AND something to regenerate Kin's tail, before using the teapot to get out of the MoM. I'm thinking that the "one item" might be affected by the red circle already being activated out of order.

[BuildsLegos]

Has anyone considered how healing potion interacts with the body's healing process? I'm hoping that it instantly summons whatever healing potential is already there. This would mean that, given Yuan-ti hibernation, The anymug will put Kin to sleep for a round and wake up with a fully-formed tail.

[trubbol]

If they tossed the mug into a oblivion hole thing, would that mean that they actually did carry flasks because they could not just summon any drink they want anymore? So they would have better ways to carry a lot more of the healing potion?

[Reads_Forums]

If they tossed the mug into a oblivion hole thing, would that mean that they actually did carry flasks because they could not just summon any drink they want anymore? So they would have better ways to carry a lot more of the healing potion?

No, they wouldn't remember why they didn't carry flasks (or how they produced the oil to burn GS) but it doesn't retroactively change history, just memories of what went into the hole, just like that 4th character in the party, I think I liked him but I can't remember.

[Krulle]

The weird thing is, I absolutely can't find Kin's familiar anymore in the archives. I'm sure I have spent a lot of tome transcribing it's noises, yet no trace of it left...
:(

[trubbol]

Was Minmax always so bald?

[SeniorVorpal]

I think I may be off topic here, but does anyone know what class Kin is? Is she zero level?

[RedwoodElf]

I think I may be off topic here, but does anyone know what class Kin is? Is she zero level?

As far as Hy know, she iz a 4HD monster, so even vit no klass leffels, she iz de eqvivalent uf 4th leffel (3rd vit her natural abilities zuppressed, most likely.)

[RocketScientist]

Ok, I'm throwing this out there regarding the quote on the Treasure Room door: "Verily the first to enter the circle of blue shall be victorious, and so the victors shall return to their land of home by entering the red". (assume that each circle is only used once.)

What if Psimax were to be thrown into the Red, which would return him to his home? (I know it says "victors" but it could have been written under the assumption that only the victors would reach the room.) Since he doesn't "win" because he never entered the blue, the maze would not reset, but Psimax would be dispatched.

This might allowing FMK to get the jade teapot AND something to regenerate Kin's tail, before using the teapot to get out of the MoM. I'm thinking that the "one item" might be affected by the red circle already being activated out of order.

Hmm. I like this. Only one way to find out. I say we toss him in and see what happens.

[warrl]

I think I may be off topic here, but does anyone know what class Kin is? Is she zero level?

Well, she definitely has the intelligence to be a mage, but she hasn't cast a spell yet that I can recall and certainly doesn't do so routinely.

I'd say either artificer or, um... can't remember the name... basically a loremaster or scholar.

IF she has a PC class at all.