May 03rd, 2013 Out of Hell

[CelineSSauve]

I'd rather not discuss whether Kin's death is pointless, good drama, or anywhere in-between.
First, she isn't dead, we don't even know whether she will die or not; second, it's a story arc in progress and Thunt usually makes things fall in place; third, Thunt may be making a somewhat different point than we all are expecting so we might be putting details into wrong perspective.

Let's just wait and see and enjoy the story as it unfolds, before calling any shenanigans.

As I'd said, the pacing is perfect for books, or patience, or both.

I still think it'll need to be resolved in less than a month, though. (That is the Kickstarter maximum time, isn't it?)

[Never Finishes Anyth]

I like how this thread turned into a discussion about literary history and writing methods.

That's because "Goblins" is extremely well written, and so attracts readers who love good storytelling, and some of those readers are introspective enough to think about why they like "Goblins", so when someone makes a remark about literary history and writing methods, it strikes an emotional chord, and inspires thoughtful responses along the same lines.

But it starts with "Goblins" is extremely well written.

-NeverFinishesAn

[Sheeva]

We know that the maze is beatable because Kin has knowledge of its interior. If it was just a trap, then it would essentially be an informational black hole.

If the current selection of groups has created a stalemate situation (which I don't buy), then Psimax could fix that easily by just telekinetically grabbing a different group each time, and forcibly carrying them to the final room and tossing them to the winner's circle. With his deep knowledge of every group in the maze, it shouldn't be too difficult for him to upset the balance enough to resolve the stalemate.

And I just don't think that the maze could get into a stalemate situation. We've seen nothing to suggest that it could, but we have undeniable evidence that the maze was designed with intelligence; it isn't just some haphazard hole in the ground that was whipped together by some idiot with a shovel and too much time on his hands. It was designed by an incredibly intelligent and powerful person who was capable of harnessing magicks beyond the comprehension of mortals and bending them to his will in an pan-dimensional fashion, who had too much time on his hands. The idea that they just forgot to build in a failsafe in the event that their construction entered permanent lockdown just doesn't seem likely.

I would assume that there could be a stalemate, just as there is now: the key to enter the final room has been destroyed.

[Boccob]

I would assume that there could be a stalemate, just as there is now: the key to enter the final room has been destroyed.

I think starvation would eventually end that stalemate and reset the maze. Because of things like Not-Walter you can also rule out determinism causing the same events to just continue repeating indefinitely.

[CelineSSauve]

I would assume that there could be a stalemate, just as there is now: the key to enter the final room has been destroyed.

There's a shadow in the keyhole, or something, which many thing is the actual key required for the door.

[Sheeva]

I would assume that there could be a stalemate, just as there is now: the key to enter the final room has been destroyed.

There's a shadow in the keyhole, or something, which many thing is the actual key required for the door.

Can you link me the page with this shadow key? I looked back on previous pages that show the treasure room and I'm not seeing it.

[CelineSSauve]

I would assume that there could be a stalemate, just as there is now: the key to enter the final room has been destroyed.

There's a shadow in the keyhole, or something, which many thing is the actual key required for the door.

Can you link me the page with this shadow key? I looked back on previous pages that show the treasure room and I'm not seeing it.

Yeah... I don't really see it either, but I think this is the image with it: http://www.goblinscomic.com/02192013/ (I think it's the shadow at the bottom right of the frame?_

[pindesucre]

Indeed, I believe that is what everyone is referring to (the draker shade in the shadow of the frame on the floor).
nd if not for an "invisible key", one has to wonder why such a shadow would be there (I know, invisble keys would not cast shadows, but it might be an "in-perspective invisible", or "light bending" invisible, or Herbert knows what invisible).

[Krulle]

You people are hunting ghosts....

The floor is uneven and has some cracks.
I cannot see anything else which you guys might be referring to as a shadow of "significance"...

[CelineSSauve]

You people are hunting ghosts....

And now I have the Ghost Buster's theme stuck in my head. *drums fingers on desk*

Thanks for that.

[Krulle]

If it's somethin' weird an' it don't look good
Who ya gonna call?

[friedkitty]

Everyone assumes that it will be MM who says "I see you". The problem with this is that we already know that he "sees"' her, just as we know that he loves her. His actions have given that away. The much more poignant (and heartbreaking) scenario here is if Kin finally realizes the impossible has happened. Here's my prediction: MM uses oblivious to hack through the door/maw from underneath (using his super jumping ability that got by trading in his ability to chew with his mouth closed) and uses a time shift sword grap to lop off PM's head. As he runs to Kin, he cradles her head in his lap. She looks up at him and caresses his cheek, and whispers "I see you" to him, He smiles, then she gasps, convulses, and dies in his arms.

That said, Thunt had better make me a complete and total loser here, as I reallllllly don't want her to die.

[crowe]

My prediction is thus, PsiMax can't solve the maze. Psimax bets on the "new" variable, love. He summons Minmax and tells him he will save Kin if he solves the maze.

[friedkitty]

Also, in panel 5, Thunt was very obvious in showing that the "H" is still intact on the handle, so we know if Forgath can get to it, between the anymug of healing potion and his casting of spells, he could at least stabilize her. I wonder if MM will use that strap he always carries around carry her for like backpack, since he's never used one before.

[DrinksTooMuchCoffee]

[...]between the anymug of healing potion and his casting of spells, he could at least stabilize her.

Although technically not being in the negatives Kin either doesn't need to be stabilized or it wouldn't help.

[YardMeat]

Everyone assumes that it will be MM who says "I see you". The problem with this is that we already know that he "sees"' her, just as we know that he loves her. His actions have given that away. The much more poignant (and heartbreaking) scenario here is if Kin finally realizes the impossible has happened. Here's my prediction: MM uses oblivious to hack through the door/maw from underneath (using his super jumping ability that got by trading in his ability to chew with his mouth closed) and uses a time shift sword grap to lop off PM's head. As he runs to Kin, he cradles her head in his lap. She looks up at him and caresses his cheek, and whispers "I see you" to him, He smiles, then she gasps, convulses, and dies in his arms.

That said, Thunt had better make me a complete and total loser here, as I reallllllly don't want her to die.

I've thought about that too, but as others have pointed out, it seems strange that Thunt would choose to quote a moment that horrifyingly depressing in order to commemorate his engagement. I think the "I see you" like will be something more positive, though I think you are right that Kin will be the one to say it.

[YardMeat]

Although technically not being in the negatives Kin either doesn't need to be stabilized or it wouldn't help.

She's still bleeding, though. Doesn't healing stabilize bleeding damage even if you aren't in the negatives?

[Alvarin]

Well, Kin moved AFTER receiving the damage, so she's still alive and is not yet even in negatives.

[friedkitty]

Although technically not being in the negatives Kin either doesn't need to be stabilized or it wouldn't help.

She's still bleeding, though. Doesn't healing stabilize bleeding damage even if you aren't in the negatives?

That's what I'm thinking. She may not be in the negatives YET, but she could be at 5 HP and falling each round.

[CelineSSauve]

I've thought about that too, but as others have pointed out, it seems strange that Thunt would choose to quote a moment that horrifyingly depressing in order to commemorate his engagement. I think the "I see you" like will be something more positive, though I think you are right that Kin will be the one to say it.

Yup, I'm in that camp.

[RedwoodElf]

Although technically not being in the negatives Kin either doesn't need to be stabilized or it wouldn't help.

She's still bleeding, though. Doesn't healing stabilize bleeding damage even if you aren't in the negatives?

That's what I'm thinking. She may not be in the negatives YET, but she could be at 5 HP and falling each round.

Well that psionic splish attack does seem to have a bleed effect, making it somewhat unique. Strictly by the rules, you don't bleed until you hit 0 HP except for certain special bleed effects.

[Product Placement]

Although technically not being in the negatives Kin either doesn't need to be stabilized or it wouldn't help.

She's still bleeding, though. Doesn't healing stabilize bleeding damage even if you aren't in the negatives?

That's what I'm thinking. She may not be in the negatives YET, but she could be at 5 HP and falling each round.

Commenting on that entire line of dialog, not friedkitty, specifically.

From what I can remember from 3rd edition D&D, the only time players normally have to worry about bleeding to death is when their hitpoints have reached 0 or less.

Interestingly enough, the only thing you can look up that's relatable to any blood loss type damage are "wounding" weapons. Even that doesn't ensure continued hit point loss, rather constitution damage, which could be devastating for high level characters (1 hp per level). But still, no continued hp loss.

So, as unrealistic as it may sound, while that growing puddle of blood certainly adds drama to the situation, she's not bleeding to death unless there's a red negative number floating over head.

And yes, I know that the story is based on a modified 3rd edition ruleset. All I'm saying is that unless Thunt is specifically house ruling that players receive continued hp loss, after crippling attacks like that, there are no standard rules in place that support this theory. Since I don't have Thunt's special rulebook in my hands, I can only draw from the original source material.

Edit:
Fantastically Ninja'd by RedwoodElf.

[kaeroku]

I keep going back to this page http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/ ... erid=TWCH9 and wondering what perspective the first few frames are being shown from, and what that key actually is.

Perhaps a way to exit the maze still exists after all...

[YardMeat]

Well that psionic splish attack does seem to have a bleed effect, making it somewhat unique. Strictly by the rules, you don't bleed until you hit 0 HP except for certain special bleed effects.

Yeah, thatÔÇÖs what I was thinking, that (behind the screen) there was a bleed effect of some sort going on.

Commenting on that entire line of dialog, not friedkitty, specifically.

From what I can remember from 3rd edition D&D, the only time players normally have to worry about bleeding to death is when their hitpoints have reached 0 or less.

There are other attacks that can cause bleed damage as well, from what I remember, they just arenÔÇÖt very common. I know there are in Pathfinder, so maybe IÔÇÖm just getting it confused. IÔÇÖm assuming that dismemberment would have something house ruled in.

So, as unrealistic as it may sound, while that growing puddle of blood certainly adds drama to the situation, she's not bleeding to death unless there's a red negative number floating over head.

IÔÇÖm not as certain about that. The basic rules as written donÔÇÖt have anything about bleeding out except for falling below 0 hp or (maybe) special attacks, but they also donÔÇÖt have anything about dismemberment. I think most DMs would rule that a severed limb bleeds until you do something to fix it.

And yes, I know that the story is based on a modified 3rd edition ruleset. All I'm saying is that unless Thunt is specifically house ruling that players receive continued hp loss, after crippling attacks like that, there are no standard rules in place that support this theory. Since I don't have Thunt's special rulebook in my hands, I can only draw from the original source material.

Whatever is going on, I think it is safe to say that it isnÔÇÖt covered by the PlayerÔÇÖs Handbook alone. There are no standard rules in place to deal with this type of bleeding, but there are also no standard rules in place to deal with this kind of dismemberment. Saying she isnÔÇÖt bleeding to death seems about as realistic at this point as saying that she hasnÔÇÖt lost the lower half of her body.

[Reads_Forums]

If the DM has some house ruling to deal with massive damage = serious injury that would be consistent with the comic, scars, badly healed arms, half the body exploding across the room. Kin is bleeding to death. Or do people think that she will continue to bleed indefinitely as long as she has 1 HP as a cosmetic effect. Plus Thunt isn't consistent with the -10 and giving her a few round to have a last reunion with MM for dramatic reasons.

Story telling > rules if the DM sees fit. Most of the times Thunt referred to the rules has been for comedic reasons I don't see anyone in comic referring to rules in the near future.

Next comic, kin back to normal, "wow, I'm glad we use a HP based system or that could have been serious, I still have 3 HP left, heal plz!"