May 07, 2013 Neutral

[GetsDumpedOften]

http://www.goblinscomic.com/05072013/

Oh damn, is Kin going to make it?

[Earthen]

So Psimax views reality as a horrific drama of which he wants no part, yet he does not acknowledge his responsibility for creating any of that horror.

[ajz003]

I'm surprised she hasn't passed out from all of the blood loss yet... I couldn't imagine just lying there bleeding, waiting for Psimax to leave. Willpower!!!

[Jebeddo]

Pleeeaaasssee make it
Also, Psimax sounds pretty Neutral, Chaotic, but Neutral none the less, I just can't see a weakness on him :C

[RJJ7]

She won't fail due to a lack of endurance/strength/health. She'll either make it or something outside her control (like Psimax) will drop in to stop her. Which means--effectively--that she'll either make it or she won't.

I'm so helpful, aren't I?


EDIT:

So Psimax views reality as a horrific drama of which he wants no part, yet he does not acknowledge his responsibility for creating any of that horror.

Great line. Which is why, even if he could be considered neutral according to D&D alignment (I don't play the game, and am no expert on it), I will still consider him evil in a real-world sense.

[Vertigo]

I have a sickening feeling Psimax is going to see her moving and destroy the mug with the potion in it. I really hope she makes it and is able to stabilize herself, but I don't think it'll be that easy, sadly...

[MrBogey]

Okay, his character is just a jerk who wants to suicide via oblivion and take everyone with him.

Here's hoping that Kin makes it to the healing potion.

[Liesmith]

This update reminds me, like everything does, of Doctor Who. Now we just need someone to punch Psimax in the face, or jam an arrow in his skull. Oh, I can't decide. Let's do both!

[Sessine]

I have a sickening feeling Psimax is going to see her moving and destroy the mug with the potion in it. I really hope she makes it and is able to stabilize herself, but I don't think it'll be that easy, sadly...

Maybe, but he's taken Forgath into the next room for interrogation, so he's not in a position to notice right now. Both Psimax and Forgath believe she's already dead. She has a chance.

And a lot of determination.

Also, he's monologuing. He has clearly not read the Evil Overlord manual.

[vals_toy]

I let out a sigh of hope and despair when I saw the last three panels. Please please please make it to the potion! But what long-term good can possibly come of it?

THunt, you Magnificent Bastard!!

[Kennerly]

I'd like to see some reason why Psymax feels the need to kill everyone else first (or at the same time as himself). His problems with the rules could easily be solved by just oblivionating himself.

[WearsHats]

The good thing is that Psimax, if he notices, will realize that the anymug can't produce magical liquid. So clearly there's no chance of her getting healing potion from it.

[Liesmith]

I'd like to see some reason why Psymax feels the need to kill everyone else first (or at the same time as himself). His problems with the rules could easily be solved by just oblivionating himself.

He explained a while back that he needs to fully understand every element of the maze, and all the people within it, in order to achieve true oblivion. The oblivion holes that we've seen so far are only pseud-oblivion; people who fall into them still existed and had effects on their surroundings, they were just erased from the memories of everyone in the maze. Since his actual universe is too complex to obliviate, he must do it in the Maze of Many, since it's a pocket dimension. Unfortunately, the maze will never be empty, because anyone who leaves will be replaced, so he has to obliviate everyone inside along with himself.

[Liesmith]

The good thing is that Psimax, if he notices, will realize that the anymug can't produce magical liquid. So clearly there's no chance of her getting healing potion from it.

Now that's a good point. They've been set up quite nicely with a few surprises up their sleeves.

[MrBogey]

The good thing is that Psimax, if he notices, will realize that the anymug can't produce magical liquid. So clearly there's no chance of her getting healing potion from it.

In most runs if they make it to the tower room they should have crossed the river of healing potion. Ergo, it should be an expected probability that they have healing potion in the mug as in the over 1 million runs they should have taken some a set percentage.

[willpell]

I have a sickening feeling Psimax is going to see her moving and destroy the mug with the potion in it. I really hope she makes it and is able to stabilize herself, but I don't think it'll be that easy, sadly...

If he splishked the Anymug, she could lick the potion off the floor, or just have it take effect when it splashes on the exposed surfaces of her newly-external digestive tract. But of course this wouldn't help; if Psimax wanted her dead, he could just splishk her head. That he didn't already do so pretty much reinforces the idea that he just doesn't care whether she lives or dies, as long as she doesn't pose a threat to him.

Interestingly, while Forgath might actually believe Kin is already dead, it's also possible that he won an opposed Charisma check to have Psimax believe his pronouncement that "Kin is dead" and thereby stop paying attention to her. (We know Forgath has at least a little Charisma to power his Turn Undead, while Psimax is uglier than zombie minmax, so presumably that equals a very low Charisma.) Just by suggesting the idea, he planted it in Psimax's mind, and Psimax was willing to accept it as truth since it played into his existing social script. This kind of subtle manipulation would be just another of the rules of reality that he dislikes.

I agree that Psimax's justifications don't really suffice to "protect" his alignment from going south, but it's not impossible that he really is Neutral by virtue of taking no pleasure in killing and doing so only when he sees it as necessary; like it or not, killing things has never been an ethical arbiter in D&D. Lawful Good paladins kill orcs all the time, despte the fact that they're sentient and theoretically capable of redemption. Whether you kill isn't the deciding factor, but why, and to some extent how (torture, for instance, is pretty much instant Evil).

[T-RexWithTourettes]

Sessine is right, he's monolouging. He destined to fail. No doubt about it. Someone tell me about a villian who's succeeding in ANYTHING they were doing, no matter how small, while blabbering their reason for wanting world domination/world destruction/revenge/whatever it may be.
I thought maybe Kin was making a reference to the crippled kobold right here, but they look pretty different, so, nevermind
And as much as a jerk Psimax is, he's got a point. Why is their Kin worth more than any of the others they may have killed along the way? And I do believe he is neutral. Neutral people/creatures can still do terrible things, but, I mean, he's not sympathizing for any side or anything, so I'd believe him. Evil is too subjective, anyways. And just look at that COMPOSURE. That POSTURE. And he almost got his neck snapped a few seconds ago, and is now covered in Kin-juice. Gotta give him some props.

Anyways, my guess is, he asks Forgath to tell where Minmax is or else, only for Minmax to rush in and say "I'm right here." or something along those lines, then get into a fight with Oblivious versus Fartbreath Dinkface. If that happens, called it.

[Kennerly]

I'd like to see some reason why Psymax feels the need to kill everyone else first (or at the same time as himself). His problems with the rules could easily be solved by just oblivionating himself.

He explained a while back that he needs to fully understand every element of the maze, and all the people within it, in order to achieve true oblivion. The oblivion holes that we've seen so far are only pseud-oblivion; people who fall into them still existed and had effects on their surroundings, they were just erased from the memories of everyone in the maze. Since his actual universe is too complex to obliviate, he must do it in the Maze of Many, since it's a pocket dimension. Unfortunately, the maze will never be empty, because anyone who leaves will be replaced, so he has to obliviate everyone inside along with himself.

And this would be easier than creating a pocket universe where only he exists?

[Liesmith]

I'd like to see some reason why Psymax feels the need to kill everyone else first (or at the same time as himself). His problems with the rules could easily be solved by just oblivionating himself.

He explained a while back that he needs to fully understand every element of the maze, and all the people within it, in order to achieve true oblivion. The oblivion holes that we've seen so far are only pseud-oblivion; people who fall into them still existed and had effects on their surroundings, they were just erased from the memories of everyone in the maze. Since his actual universe is too complex to obliviate, he must do it in the Maze of Many, since it's a pocket dimension. Unfortunately, the maze will never be empty, because anyone who leaves will be replaced, so he has to obliviate everyone inside along with himself.

And this would be easier than creating a pocket universe where only he exists?

Well, yeah. Keep in mind that, to create the Maze of Many, someone had to harness the power of a God's underling's weapon. There probably aren't too many of those lying around, and messing with them is probably insanely dangerous. I think he wouldn't want to risk dying, because then he would be trapped in some kind of afterlife, without any hope of ever realizing his goal.

[ThroughTheWell]

Yes Psimax is evil and does not realize it. GS was too. So is Kore. So is Duv. THunt is good at that kind of dialog / viewpoint.

I also liked the omnipotent importance line, which Psimax doess not realize aplies FAR more to himself than to anyone else. He is so far around the bend that his claims of understanding things in the maze no longer make sense. He missed the love, and he's misunderstanding our dwarf too. Oh, mechanicaly and predictively he may know stuff, but he does not KNOW emotions.

[FliesManyKites]

YES YES YES YES!!!

This was a wonderfully buoyant update to read! Any silver of hope right now is gold.

Things Kin has going for her:

• Intelligence! I'll bet you she was playing possum last page on purpose...
• No sign of negative hitpoints yet, though undoubtedly she's bleeding out fast.
• Psimax (and Forgath) both presume her dead.
• Psimax (and forgath) have moved to the next room, out of sight.
• Psimax seems preoccupied. For someone who just criticized Forgath for self-importance, he sure sees himself (well, his oblivion goals, really) as Pretty Darn Important.
• There is an improbable mug of incredible healing potion! Plot-wise, why would the healing potion have been brought along this far if not for this express purpose?

Things that could go wrong:

• She doesn't make it across the hall.
• The healing potion isn't enough to save her.
• Psimax pops back out and *splishks* her head.
• Minmax runs around the corner and knocks the mug over, spilling the healing potion uselessly across the floor.

As for me, I think she's going to make it. Why? Well, if she doesn't, it would be crushing. I know that there are some creators out there whose plots are filled with:

1. New awesome plan to solve problem!
2. Hopeful attempt at enacting plan! It's going to work!
3. Foiled at the last second. Situation worse than before.
4. Repeat ad nauseum until creator decides to end the narrative. Eventual success falls flat.

The problem with this pattern for me is that it's exhausting. The story becomes painful to keep reading, because it methodically leeches all your hope and expectations with each crushing failure.

I have so far been extremely impressed with Thunt's storytelling. He has, in the past, successfully avoided this kind of rut - the plot is ever growing and expanding instead of repeating itself in failure. Successes (major ones included) do happen, and while setbacks do as well these have never sent the characters back to square one repeatedly.

(Well, unless you argue that the MoM has done just that over 8 million times, but that's outside of what we've seen directly)

I have no reason to expect Thunt's very successful narrative style to change now. So that is why, until shown otherwise, I anticipate that Kin will successfully drink the healing potion and survive this injury, albeit a cripple. I'm not ruling out that she could die later, but I do expect her to live for now, and for her continued existence to have significant purpose.

[WokkaWokka]

Psi-max will not see Kin move toward the potion now...

He's inside an adjacent room, with an entrance point not much bigger than his body frame from the looks of it. Kin appears to be outside the line of sight Psimax would have into the next room (on the side of the Anymug) so she can crawl theoretically without being noticed so long as she is not making too much noise.

That said, Minmax is likely about to rush into the hallway more quickly than advised since he can "see" Kin's pain... End result we

Let me guess Minmax rounds that corner too quickly and kicks over the Anymug,.. thus spilling the healing potion and not allowing Kin to survive. Minmax's uncontrollable grief from this powers his ability to kill Psi-max.


Sad, but if she survives, I'll be happy ;0)

[WearsHats]

I'm surprised she hasn't passed out from all of the blood loss yet... I couldn't imagine just lying there bleeding, waiting for Psimax to leave. Willpower!!!

Well, also, she's living in a D&D world, where you can be down to one hit point and still move around and do everything just as easily as ever. Thunt has commented about that a few times over the years. Realistic injury rules don't really apply here. (At least, not fully.)

OTOH:

I'll bet you she was playing possum last page on purpose...

I don't think so. She just had half her body exploded in the midst of a desperate attempt to avoid a traumatic violation that harkens back to her rape and torture. I think a bit of frozen shock is entirely due.

The good thing is that Psimax, if he notices, will realize that the anymug can't produce magical liquid. So clearly there's no chance of her getting healing potion from it.

In most runs if they make it to the tower room they should have crossed the river of healing potion. Ergo, it should be an expected probability that they have healing potion in the mug as in the over 1 million runs they should have taken some a set percentage.

Not necessarily. They've done this dungeon crawl over a million times and we have no idea if they've ever gotten close before. They could have taken any number of pathways, too.

Granted, Psimax knows the maze. He knows the river exists. But what are the odds that's what's in the mug?

Yes Psimax is evil and does not realize it. GS was too. So is Kore. So is Duv. THunt is good at that kind of dialog / viewpoint.

He is.

But I'm wondering about Psimax's alignment, after all. Could you make an argument for Chaotic Neutral? From his POV, reality itself is the problem. He doesn't care about good or evil. He just wants to do away with it all. Really, he's saving everyone else in the maze from the same horrible torture of existence.

[EatsAbug]

So maybe MinMax will desperately do something so stupid-clever that shouldn't work but does - forever replacing "Troll logic" with "MinMax thinking".

"Reasoning" that if he grabs his own hand as it grabs Oblivious from the future he'll be pulled through to that time and place - and of course if he was beside Kin he'd have to grab the sword to protect her from whatever is hurting her, so he'll pull himself into the future along with the sword, and once there of course he can reach through to grab the sword. (I know, it's stupid and shouldn't work - but sometimes Herbert favors those who role play well...) He pops in beside Kin out of nowhere holding his own hand, to the amazement of Psi Max ("Impossible!").

After a sad scene with Kin, he kills Psi Max in the brief moment that the latter is surprised he can't Splishk the sword. He tosses dead Psi Max into the oblivion hole - permanently ending his cycles - perhaps mistakenly hoping that by making it so Psi Max never existed, Kin will be restored. They forget Psi Max of course, leaving them puzzled why Kin went Splishk. MinMax sadly takes the collar off of Kin - which wipes out the MoM in a giant KerSplosion - but MoM resets anyhow, including closing the oblivion holes (and everything lost into them).

Soon we see the three of the friends stepping out of the giant sword, with the teapot and some other cool items from the treasure room, with Forgath complaining that he can't believe it took them over 5 million tries to win. By playing with quantum effects in the pocket universe, they've broken free of the prophecy and forged a new destiny - and clearly if MinMax and Kin haven't Seen each other yet, they soon will.

OR....

[notimportant]

Now if this was a horribly sad comic, Kin would pass the mug and grab the arrow to end her pain.