July 11, 2013: 38? Done. FSST

[T-RexWithTourettes]

It'd be interesting to read the comic from Psimax's point of view...villains are always fun to follow.
Got to give the Kins some credit, they rigged that thing in SECONDS.
I also think it was more satisfying seeing Psimax's look of legitimate terror than him actually being stabbed. In my opinion, of course.

[WokkaWokka]

Reality has been altered here... and now it is attempting to correct itself.

PsiMax being killed is the worst thing for our group, as the logical snap-back on Psi-Max's death is to resume the 'normal' timeline as much as possible. It's like when you take a balloon and squeeze, bend and twist it around. If you let go, it will pop back into it's original position. A bit of a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey explanation I suppose, but it expresses my biggest concern here.

In the 'normal' timeline... MinMax usually dies to GoldMax in the Tower Room, as already explained by PsiMax... Once PsiMax's machinations have ended, the timeline will attempt to correct itself. And GoldMax is next to a currently disabled MinMax. I wouldn't be surprised if GoldMax attempts to kill him next, particularly with him being pissed off at losing his pocket-demon.

Oh, and the pseudo-Oblivion... was something that PsiMax created. As an extension of PsiMax... If the universe has now been modified to make all things PsiMax universally weak to GoldMax... Well Oblivious as an extension could be critically weak to GoldMax. This would also be a way to get rid of the overpowered sword before they return to their own reality.

[Kamos]

Not quite right. Psimax released them so that Reality 38, Goldmax and Not-Walter, WOULDN'T kill them and they would make it to the Tower Room. In the Tower Room they just typically die or at least one of them does preventing them from finishing.
Panel 8
http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20120106.jpg

Now might he try to get revenge because he lost his Devil minion? I can see that. But this Minmax seems to be a bit smarter and will problem wait until Psimax is definitely done.

[WokkaWokka]

Ah, been awhile since I read that... for some reason I was remembering it as PsiMax stating they died TO Reality 38 in the Tower Room...

Hmmm

[mnementh]

The Psion's Clockwork will still remain after he's dead; as long as the Kins continue maintaining it, anyways. They may actually find a way to end the MoM and send everybody home; I have no doubt there are at least a few parties that have been at it since day 1 and NEVER won their way out. There's a personal hell for ya. Besides; in this pocket reality, the self-correcting nature of time is broken anyways. Couldn't HAVE the MoM if it weren't.


mnem
If you go in for that sort of thing...

[Ulalume]

I kinda feel like once they get Psimax dead they should shove is body into one of the oblivion holes just to make certain he won't come back to life on the next reset or anything.

This has been brought up in some shape or form in previous forum threads, but I can't help but wonder if that would even work. If PsiMax was thrown into an oblivion hole and the maze reset, then technically he never existed...but then, technically, neither did the oblivion hole, since he was the one that created it. The whole thing becomes a massive paradox.

I remember Thunt trying to explain how the oblivion holes work in a blog when they first appeared, but I don't remember if it covered this aspect of them. Any theories?

[Mithcoriel]

When Thunt explained the oblivion holes, I believe he explicitly said "They don't bring true oblivion, otherwise Psimax would have just thrown himself into one." implying that that works.
Oh yeah, that reminds me: them being surface-oblivion. If Psimax never existed, the oblivion holes are still there. They just had no creator.

If PsiMax does die - the Kins should use the machine to repair his counter so he gets reset to his entry state and loses all his memories.

Except his counter should always display his weakness number, no matter how many times he goes through, so that he is never again able to affect or destroy it.

If Psimax has a weakness number, that means the oblivion machine that makes him near immune would still be working, and he'd still be nearly unstoppable.

[nitwit]

When Thunt explained the oblivion holes, I believe he explicitly said "They don't bring true oblivion, otherwise Psimax would have just thrown himself into one." implying that that works.
Oh yeah, that reminds me: them being surface-oblivion. If Psimax never existed, the oblivion holes are still there. They just had no creator.

*snip*

Maybe someone has a link or copy to that original blog of his, and can repost it, but when i read it, i don't recall it actually answering the real question, maybe i misunderstood, THunt explained a difference between making it so someone never existed, removing their impact from the world, which is what psymaxs' machine attempts to do, and superficially scrubbing them out, i.e. leaving their impact, but erasing them, which is what the holes do. Thats not really the question.

The question is do these holes cause you to cease to exist, because honestly, there is no difference, for the non-existent, in whether you never existed, or no longer exist. Both spare you from the bleak and crappy afterlife that awaits you in DnD, (been a while since i read the lore, but as i remember it, it sucked even for the good guys, just marginally less so. far from heaven in the best circumstances anyway)

Like i said, i might of missed something, maybe i'm dense, but it seemed to be all about the impact on the world that the holes have, when the question is the impact on the individual. If psymax ceases to be, he ceases to be, whether or not he never was, is irrelevant, because if he is gone, the Maze couldn't bring him back right?

he did say "thats why he doesn't just jump in", he just failed to provide an explanation why, or atleast one that i understood.

[Mithcoriel]

I suspect Psymax wants to erase the impact he had on the world too, for some reason.

Otherwise he wouldn't be putting so much empathis on ensuring that "we never existed", just that "we'll stop existing".

[Changes_everything]

For Maglubiyet's sake, his name is Psimax. As in psi. Not as in psy(cho).

[Krulle]

Maybe someone has a link or copy to that original blog of his, and can repost it,

"oblivion holes explained site:goblinscomic.com" in google delivers http://www.goblinscomic.org/oblivion-holes-explained/.

You're welcome!

For Maglubiyet's sake, his name is Psimax. As in psi. Not as in psy(cho).

Bad example... In my opinion, PsiMax is a psychotic person.
Psi as in psion.
Not psy for psychic, although that describes a psion pretty well too.

And I agree. It annoys me too, seeing the version with an "y". It just looks wrong.

[hidesinshadows]

Oh I bet their forums are on fire right now. How dare THunt kill of Minmax the unstoppable psion?!? After years of this story arc, covering the 800 MoM runs, he's just going to die? What was the point??

The point is that 1 does NOT equal Zero.... and I think Zero got pissed off.

I'm so glad I came back to have a look today, it seems as if a resolution is in sight.
Well, for the MoM, anyway. Guess I'll have to stick around a while to see the parties come together.

And.... I don't mean to be grizzly... but have you noticed, we have not been shown any hint of what's left of Kin from the waist down.
Best not to think about it, I guess.

Actually we have seen in some pages, it's just been a splishked end of her lower body, just near the waist. http://www.goblinscomic.org/05272013/ Being a prime example

[nitwit]

I suspect Psymax wants to erase the impact he had on the world too, for some reason.

Otherwise he wouldn't be putting so much empathis on ensuring that "we never existed", just that "we'll stop existing".

if you are right, i really need an explanation as to why.

Maybe someone has a link or copy to that original blog of his, and can repost it,

"oblivion holes explained site:goblinscomic.com" in google delivers http://www.goblinscomic.org/oblivion-holes-explained/.

You're welcome!

Thank you very much for the link. I assumed it was gone with old site. Rereading it, it still doesn't answer the question for me. like i said, maybe i'm dense.

[Kamos]

Man I just don't get tired of looking at this comic again.

[Unlucky-for-Some]

The Psion's Clockwork will still remain after he's dead; as long as the Kins continue maintaining it, anyways. They may actually find a way to end the MoM and send everybody home; I have no doubt there are at least a few parties that have been at it since day 1 and NEVER won their way out. There's a personal hell for ya. Besides; in this pocket reality, the self-correcting nature of time is broken anyways. Couldn't HAVE the MoM if it weren't.
mnem

For some reason when I read this my brain interpreted it as the Psion's Cookbook (probably cos it is lunchtime at the moment) and and went through some moments of extreme puzzlement going
"WTF? Have I missed a page here or something?"



I wonder what PsiMax's favourite food was?

[EatsAbug]

If PsiMax does die - the Kins should use the machine to repair his counter so he gets reset to his entry state and loses all his memories.

Except his counter should always display his weakness number, no matter how many times he goes through, so that he is never again able to affect or destroy it.

If Psimax has a weakness number, that means the oblivion machine that makes him near immune would still be working, and he'd still be nearly unstoppable.

Since the number of his run through the MoM would be a fundamental constant of that run, he'd be weakened against everything and everyone for the duration of that run.

And I think you're underestimating the nature of the PsiMachine. It can make permanent changes not just to PsiMax, but to anything in the MoM pocket universe. It has to be that powerful, or it wouldn't be able to snuff out the universe. Some stuff (stripping PsiMax's powers, fixing Kin's tail) would probably be extremely difficult to 'reprogram', or the Kins would have done those. In any case - once changes are made, the PsiMachine could cease to exist and the changes to the MoM would persist.

[LooksAndSmiles]

Would this only be the second major "canon" event that suggests Goldmax found a way to game his character build for extreme luck? On his introduction here, he seemed to have successfully guessed not-Walter's name, binding an overwhelmingly strong ally at (almost) the beginning of the campaign. Maybe that just resulted from the infinite possibilities of the universe -- some Minmax facing Grinn would eventually have gotten the right name by pure chance.

Now, though, Psimax just *happened* to mention Goldmax's reality number to another reality that later just *happened* to be in a position to weaken Psimax, and Goldmax just *happened* to not be part of the first mass-liquefaction spell cast in the tower room, so he's in a position where his number, the only one known to 3.5k, just *happens* to conform to the requirements to weaken Psimax, which just *happens* to give him a chance at escaping Psimax's omni-oblivion plot, whether he escapes the maze on this run or some subsequent replay...

Just saying, it's looking like the power of Oblivious-wielded-by-Minmax can't hold a candle to Goldmax's innate(?) good fortune here.

A MinMax tuned to luck? That is ... certainly an interesting idea, thank you!

[bcas77]

A MinMax tuned to luck? That is ... certainly an interesting idea, thank you!

I think there should be a MinMax tuned to kindness. I don't know if Forgath would be with him though, because MM would probably be a cleric too

[mnementh]

A MinMax tuned to luck? That is ... certainly an interesting idea, thank you!

I think there should be a MinMax tuned to kindness. I don't know if Forgath would be with him though, because MM would probably be a cleric too

Sure he would... but they'd both be played by grrls.


mnem
Vive la difference!

[Dendr]

I think there should be a MinMax tuned to kindness.

It might be. Probably. Although... Have we seen any RangeMax?
I've found only one BowGat here (near the bottom of the left pillar), and BowKin on the same page (in the right-far corner). And, of course, Sapphire. Anymore?

I mean, we can add as many ideas of alt-Maxes as there are lines in Rulebook. But are they presented in current MoM? Gerbert knows...