December 7, 2013: Fancy Moves

[spiderwrangler]

- Like three people already said to three other people, but for the record in case somebody asks again:

You should know by now that no one listens.

Thaco is likely to get out of the spell, He did chose this class for escape bonds, and the magical effect equals bonds. So I think he will be out soon.

... except that hold person results in paralysis where the person CANNOT MOVE. "The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place." Escape Artist skill checks are an active attempt to slip loose of whatever is holding you. If you're unable to move....

If Thunt were to allow Thaco to use EA to get free, it would be through quite a bit of houseruling. I still say if he get's loose, it's through succeeding at the Will Save.

[SGTdude]

Forgath will release Kore when he realized Kore dont give a [CENSORED] about nobody and gunna kill every [CENSORED] in the room.

Its not hard to imagine why Kore might do this, because he clearly has his own rigid code that allows him to kill anyone he deems "evil". I think this will turn into a wild fight where they are all trying to fight Kore while Complains and MM still are fighting eachother.


But what do I know?

[Wears Many Mustaches]

I'm a bit confused by this one. Big Ears charges Forgath coming FROM the forest. He then hits Forgath, they briefly grapple, and Big Ears jumps straight over Forgath, and then, somehow, lands in FRONT of Forgath...

Can anyone explain to me how this worked??

:}P

Ears did not jump straight over Forgath, he just bounced back away from Forgath.

Edit:
I guess it is some what confusing seeing the bridge empty behind Ears at panel 3, even though it is easily excused by it being a close up of Ears' body covering the skirmish.

That's what I thought at first, except the fourth last panel seems to show Ears jumping OVER Forgath.

[Nerre]

Maybe ears did sense the approaching of Kore through some holy paladin sense and tried to get Forgath between himself and Kore's bolts, just in case.

[GroundPetrel]

This ought to be a good fight.

Thunt, I love how the inevitable end of the fight is obvious (Forgath uses the racist axe on Kore), but you still manage to keep me gnawing my fingernails off with worry for the GAP and FMK. You are a truly great author.

That Kore shot in the next-to-last panel is a great way of keeping the fight structured. Kudos!

*goes back to lurking*

[YardMeat]

Cleric is never a match for a paladin.

If this were an evil cleric, I would agree with you, but a paladin's best abilities are not going to work against a good cleric. Depending on BE's strength, he may have a better attack bonus or he might not. And keep in mind that clerics have a first level spell, divine favor, that basically give them the same BAB as a fighter/paladin. BE's saves are probably going to help quite a bit, but I don't think it is nearly as clear-cut as you stated things here.

It has been a while since I played but, other than smite evil and a mount (which BE doesn't use anyway), does a paladin have many advantages that the cleric can't duplicate with spells?

[spiderwrangler]

On another note, that is quite the jump for someone wearing plate armor

As pointed out before, he is still under the influence of Chief's Bull Strenght spell, so would be applying that +4STR to Jump checks.

But yes. Jumping 1 foot straight up is a DC 8, 2 feet is a DC 16. Subtract the penalty of whatever that armor counts as and add his Str modifier (likely +3~ish with Bull's Strength). Since we see it from above, it's hard to tell.

I think the last BE panel is a better gauge of how high he jumped (not very) since someone doing a backflip doesn't spend all that much time in that midair, laid out position. It could also be as a magically manifested suit of armor, that the Armor of Prissan doesn't have a sever penalty, and for that matter isn't on him above the waist at the time of his jump/backflip.

[MapsGroxily]

Kore is fast approaching, things are gonna get ugly fast...

[Wolfie]

I'm a bit confused by this one. Big Ears charges Forgath coming FROM the forest. He then hits Forgath, they briefly grapple, and Big Ears jumps straight over Forgath, and then, somehow, lands in FRONT of Forgath...

Can anyone explain to me how this worked??

He does jump over Forgath... while doing a backflip. He used his momentum in jumping (up and through the Axe) and hitting Forgath to step on his shoulder plate and do a backflip. Panels 7 and 8 are essentially the same picture, just with a change in camera position and Forgath holding the staff upwards again.

[Starfire]

Seeing Kore in the background is very foreboding. Great update, I second the 'H' drawing, very cool and I also love the Big Ears action shots. Masterfully done!

[RedwoodElf]

... except that hold person results in paralysis where the person CANNOT MOVE. "The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place." Escape Artist skill checks are an active attempt to slip loose of whatever is holding you. If you're unable to move....

If Thunt were to allow Thaco to use EA to get free, it would be through quite a bit of houseruling. I still say if he get's loose, it's through succeeding at the Will Save.

And WIll save is one of a monk's good saves. That Hold person is unlikely to last more than a few rounds.
(Of course, since Forgath is level 3, it's only going to last 3 rounds anyway)

[RedwoodElf]

I'm a bit confused by this one. Big Ears charges Forgath coming FROM the forest. He then hits Forgath, they briefly grapple, and Big Ears jumps straight over Forgath, and then, somehow, lands in FRONT of Forgath...

Can anyone explain to me how this worked??

He does jump over Forgath... while doing a backflip. He used his momentum in jumping (up and through the Axe) and hitting Forgath to step on his shoulder plate and do a backflip. Panels 7 and 8 are essentially the same picture, just with a change in camera position and Forgath holding the staff upwards again.

Goblins have a ridiculous Dex bonus. Their AVERAGE dex is 15(!) Even if it's not a class skill, a Goblin is a nimble little minx.

[Wandering Mage]

Big Ears does not jump over Forgath. Look carefully, he jumps up and does a backflip away from very close to Forgath. He starts out between Forgath and MM, and that's where he lands. If you look he never ends up on the other side of Forgath to make this a going over his head thing.

Also yes they do have a high dex, but with out special feats or features, dex doesn't affect the jump skill.

On Hold Person and Humanoids: When people have said it works on humanoids, that's a very specific rules classification, not just a description. Goblins are type: humanoid (goblinoid). Kobolds are humanoid. Elves are humanoid. Monstrous Humanoid is a completely different type that Hold Person does not work on. Centaurs, Minotaurs, Hags, Doppelgangers, Harpies are all monstrous humanoids. Ogres and Trolls are likewise not affected because their type is "Giant."

[Miryafa]

Forgath will release Kore when he realized Kore dont give a [CENSORED] about nobody and gunna kill every [CENSORED] in the room.

You mean the censored's who are very clearly human and dwarf (not evil) and are very clearly fighting goblins (evil) at this very moment?

At first I thought like you. I mean, from a mechanics perspective it makes sense for the cleric in the GAP to be replaced by the MFK cleric. And most likely sooner or later Kore will find out MM likes Kin (evil). But right now the outcome I'm imagining is Kore joining Forgath and MM to kill the goblins. At least until they escape into the maze.

Well, it seems to me that tragedy Goblins is gonna tragedy. Whatcha gonna do?

[SGTdude]

I do not give Kore any credit and assume he will kill anyone who is not Kore. This seems to be his character.

Plus a "yeah lets team up...oh wait, that guy's a prick" has already been done before with GS. This is definitely going down as a 3way in my opinion.

[RedwoodElf]

Also yes they do have a high dex, but with out special feats or features, dex doesn't affect the jump skill.

I thought Jump skill was deprecated in 3.5 to be consolidated into "Acrobatics" skill, which is used for Jumping, Tumbling, and other "Acrobatic" actions?

[Wolfie]

Also yes they do have a high dex, but with out special feats or features, dex doesn't affect the jump skill.

I thought Jump skill was deprecated in 3.5 to be consolidated into "Acrobatics" skill, which is used for Jumping, Tumbling, and other "Acrobatic" actions?

You're thinking of 4.0. 3.5 keeps the jump skill as a separate skill.

Jump in 3.5 is based on STR, not DEX. However, Ears appears to be a pretty strong Goblin.

[Talos]

Well, as I said, no matter how it works, a jump like that is among the least fantastic things in the comic, and certainly not a major complaint.

I just noticed that goblins have an uneven number of fingers and toes, four and three (well, three fingers plus a thumb, but only three digits per foot). Again, not a major problem, or even a problem at all. I only noticed that when there was mention of Big Ears being given the wrong number of fingers before a recent correction.

And I can see why STR would make more sense when it comes to jumping. Dexterity really is more a measure of balance and agility, not leg strength.

[Wandering Mage]

That's 4.0. In 3.5e it is a STR skill. In 4.0, it's NOT actually lumped into "acrobatics" (DEX skill) per se. It is lumped into "athletics" (Still a STR skill).

[Steelhaven]

Technically, he's not jumping over forgath, he's doing a backflip using forgath's gauntlet as a springboard. (as far as I can tell)

I'd honestly lump this move into tumble, rather than jump. And don't forget, Tumble and Jump skills have synergies. At least 5 ranks in either, and you get a +2 bonus for the other. At level 3 Big ears could potentially have 5 ranks in either. Though they are cross-class for him, and I forget how that affects skill caps.

[Talos]

Does using heavy armor even affect one's ability to jump in D&D at all?

[LordsBreed]

Does using heavy armor even affect one's ability to jump in D&D at all?

Armor Check Penalty

Any armor heavier than leather hurts a characterÔÇÖs ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. A characterÔÇÖs encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also apply an armor check penalty.

The armor is highly magical, it may not have any or it may not have a large penalty.

[vonpenguin]

Does using heavy armor even affect one's ability to jump in D&D at all?

Armor Check Penalty

Any armor heavier than leather hurts a characterÔÇÖs ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. A characterÔÇÖs encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also apply an armor check penalty.

The armor is highly magical, it may not have any or it may not have a large penalty.

Another possibility is that when Ears tore off the damaged armor it mechanically downgraded it to something lighter, thus reducing the penalty. He passed the check to begin the flip before reforming the armor. This is partially supported by the fact that he landed with enough force to crack the stone bridge yet Forgath did not seem that put out by the weight of ears on his arm, he got heavier in mid air.

[Talos]

I guess that makes sense. Apart from Ears, the GAP has very little armor. Pretty much none, actually.

[spiderwrangler]

Perhaps not the thread for it and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, but regarding Kin, X additional runs through the Maze won't add any time to her exiting the maze. If while in the maze she realizes that she 'sees' MM, she could exit and rush to find a safe place to use the Jade Teapot to brew a batch to teleport to his side, intending to return on foot (tail) to pick it up and take it to her clan after reuniting with FM.

In other words, she could show up mid battle (after the amount of time it takes to brew the tea), which would smooth things over between GAP and FM, but put both parties at odds with Kore. I'm gonna call that as my prediction, cause why not. Discussion of the implications of this potential outcome in terms of prophesy will result in stabbings.