16 Jan 2014 Under the tree

[Simon_Jester]

No one saw that solution coming even, let along guessed that Senor K.A. was going to call it.

Yes. 'Fumbles' may have just saved all their lives. Classy.

Invulnerable beard strike didn't faze Kore in the slightest, did it?.

Do you mean striking Kore with the beard, or Kore striking the beard? Also, it seems like Kore's axe at least cut a few hairs and made a bit of a 'canyon' in the beard. Overall, I don't think the magically created prosthetics from the Maze of Many are actually invulnerable- just very tough. I also wonder, are Kore's axes magical?

Third and finally, I suspect Oblivious will actually be able to penetrate Kore's armor effectively, or at least it really should. Appropriately, Minmax has a record of punching far above his weight in combat, and giving him a cut-anything sword makes that even more probable. So far the only thing that's survived a hit from Oblivious undamaged was Grinnorarcen, and, well, holy weapons.

So with the goblins having solved the puzzle, Minmax is totally free to run to his friend's assistance; Forgath is doing well enough that he can probably keep Kore tied up in melee for Minmax to arrive given Minmax's insane movement rate (60 ft/round or whatever, ). And at that point Kore has a real problem- two opponents, both with more armor over their vitals than the foes he's used to fighting*, and both with weapons that really should be capable of penetrating his defenses (a +7 axe of racism and a sword made of unmoveable-unparryable-cut-anything-ium)


*Has anyone noticed that practically all the non-demihuman humanoids we've seen fight shirtless or at most wearing cloth? If so, maybe Kore doesn't even bother with magic weapons; there wouldn't be much need for him to ramp up his attack bonuses.

[RedwoodElf]

I would bet that by now Minmax has "Improved Sunder" (I'm betting his first level feats included Power Attack)

[Madfox11]

I would bet that by now Minmax has "Improved Sunder" (I'm betting his first level feats included Power Attack)

He uses a lot of 1-handed weapons to make Power Attack that good of a choice yet, especially on lower levels (since no matter how much you min max PA is based on basic attack which cannot be minmaxed).

[stevedj]

now i'm curious what would've happened if they had tried to solve it by sliding the image of the key under the tree...

Well, the "key" they might have received would not "be theirs" (per the riddle), so perhaps just left there scratching their heads? ...or some monster appears to "defend" the key, even the 'wrong' key.

Meanwhile, notice how many exclamation points are in just this strip, let alone the previous couple? For all you prophecy people: I'd say that's a lot of screaming... hmmm...

[Aegis J Hyena]

Nice Crit, Fumbles... now get the hell out of there before Kore slaughters you all!

[Liquidmark]

I Don't think Forgath's beard is cut or damaged. The effect from Kore trying to cut it is the same as when Thaco tried to decapitate him earlier.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/

[Glemp]

Third and finally, I suspect Oblivious will actually be able to penetrate Kore's armor effectively, or at least it really should. Appropriately, Minmax has a record of punching far above his weight in combat, and giving him a cut-anything sword makes that even more probable.
[...]
(a +7 axe of racism and a sword made of unmoveable-unparryable-cut-anything-ium

Oblivious can't cut through anything - nothing can affect it save Minmax, so it can't be damaged or moved save by his hand. It doesn't work the other way round.

[DrGPS]

I can't help but think, based on the perspective of a space being behind the gate and between it and the puzzle, that if Forgath is about to die and falls back (to heal or something), that they could slide inside the gate and between the puzzle momentarily safe from Kore. Of course, Kore has ranged weapons, so it would be like shooting fish in a barrel, but perhaps they can block them long enough to get through. Being in a pickle, every round counts. Then they can go back to killing each other .

[spiderwrangler]

I Don't think Forgath's beard is cut or damaged. The effect from Kore trying to cut it is the same as when Thaco tried to decapitate him earlier.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/

My thoughts exactly. I've got a nice beard, but I find myself a bit jealous of Forgath's.

[Rorrik]

I'd call foul on the DM here... that's clearly "Behind" the tree, not "Under" it.

(Also, the bars are suddenly a lot closer to the puzzle than they were a couple days ago: http://www.goblinscomic.org/01062014/.)

I'd have preferred that he remove the tile under the tree to reveal the key. That way, even when you get the key tile in place you can still solve it the same way. (Maybe the key tile is easier to remove?)

[Brings Cupcakes]

(Also, the bars are suddenly a lot closer to the puzzle than they were a couple days ago: http://www.goblinscomic.org/01062014/.)

That line of spots on the ground does not mark where the bars were, as you can see in this comic:
http://www.goblinscomic.org/12222013/

[Liquidmark]

Oblivious can't cut through anything - nothing can affect it save Minmax, so it can't be damaged or moved save by his hand. It doesn't work the other way round.

It managed to cut Forgath's finger upon contact with the blade.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02102012/

[RedwoodElf]

Oblivious can't cut through anything - nothing can affect it save Minmax, so it can't be damaged or moved save by his hand. It doesn't work the other way round.

It managed to cut Forgath's finger upon contact with the blade.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02102012/

I think someone is confusing "Can't Cut through "anything"" (Adamantium still gets its DR bonus) with "Can't cut through ANYTHING" (Minmax: CURSE YOU BUTTER! Y U No CUT!)

[Sessine]

The riddle should have left out the "if" :I

To open the door
Take the key.
It will be yours
If under the tree.

It's quite possible that in fact this is how it was supposed to work. If they had moved the tiles so that the key-block was under the tree, the tree-block would have obligingly popped out, revealing the key. What Vorpal realized was that -- in that case -- a shortcut existed.

It's very interesting indeed that he didn't waste time trying to pull out the key-block, though. That was a critical success!

You know... since he went through that terrible torture, we haven't seen him fumble once. Granted, we haven't seen him do much of anything until this bridge-battle. But he threw one of Kore's bolts to distract MinMax -- and succeeded. He was the one who noticed that Kore was getting dangerously close. And now this...

I think we should stop calling him Fumbles.

[Liquidmark]

Oblivious can't cut through anything - nothing can affect it save Minmax, so it can't be damaged or moved save by his hand. It doesn't work the other way round.

It managed to cut Forgath's finger upon contact with the blade.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02102012/

I think someone is confusing "Can't Cut through "anything"" (Adamantium still gets its DR bonus) with "Can't cut through ANYTHING" (Minmax: CURSE YOU BUTTER! Y U No CUT!)

I see. I thought he was saying that the weapon itself can't cut. But, we don't know if the sword can't cut through, say, adamantium. Minmax hasn't tried. One thing that is known is that, in his hands, the sword is indestructible and an immovable object. We don't know if it can be unstoppable. If it is unstoppable and indestructible, then it should be able to cut through any material.

[JustRight]

No longer fumbling, Se├▒or VKA just needs his voice back to become totally effective. The conqueror of the purple worm familiar is back.

[Wolfie]

You know... since he went through that terrible torture, we haven't seen him fumble once. Granted, we haven't seen him do much of anything until this bridge-battle. But he threw one of Kore's bolts to distract MinMax -- and succeeded. He was the one who noticed that Kore was getting dangerously close. And now this...

I think we should stop calling him Fumbles.

Well, the entire time he was in the hands of GS, he was mentally in his Vorpal state... reliving his conquering of the purple worm. Maybe his mental imaginings left him physically better able to NOT Fumble.

Does this mean that your name destiny CAN be changed?

[spiderwrangler]

You know... since he went through that terrible torture, we haven't seen him fumble once. Granted, we haven't seen him do much of anything until this bridge-battle. But he threw one of Kore's bolts to distract MinMax -- and succeeded. He was the one who noticed that Kore was getting dangerously close. And now this...

I think we should stop calling him Fumbles.

Interesting point. While being tortured, he retreated in his mind to the Vorpal persona, likely as a defense mechanism to avoid the horror of what was happening. It's even possible that the only reason he was a screwup in the first place was because he'd been given the name Fumbles at his naming ceremony, and thus expected it and lacked the confidence to do anything well. If living up to his name was what held him back, forming the Vorpal persona was the first step, but it may have been the torture that supplanted the original Fumbles mindset. Now that he seems to be coming out of his catatonic shock state, will the new found confidence (and lack of fumbling) remain in the forefront?

[Maxpowers13]

Fumbles is definitely due for a string of critical s, I'm hoping Forgath will make it out of this one and into the dungeon.

The question is can he withdraw faster than Kore can chase?

[Glemp]

I see. I thought he was saying that the weapon itself can't cut. But, we don't know if the sword can't cut through, say, adamantium. Minmax hasn't tried. One thing that is known is that, in his hands, the sword is indestructible and an immovable object. We don't know if it can be unstoppable. If it is unstoppable and indestructible, then it should be able to cut through any material.

Thunt's gone into this on a livestream - if Minmax blocks a sword blow with it, that's the other guy trying to move Oblivious with his sword. But if Minmax tries to, say, cut through solid rock with it, that's him using Oblivious to try and affect the rock.

[Simon]

I Don't think Forgath's beard is cut or damaged. The effect from Kore trying to cut it is the same as when Thaco tried to decapitate him earlier.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/

Good point. The beard has the same indentation, it's also got the same sound effect (different IME though).
When both Thaco and Kore sliced Forgath's beard, we don't see any strands falling to the ground, which I'm sure we would have if we were supposed to think it's been cut.

The 'sound' reminds me of metal sliding against metal. Just another thing that makes the beard appeard very tough.

[fumblesfan]

Why don't we see any IME effect from the +7 racist axe? Even the Hamace is magical. . . shouldn't it have an IME effect? The Axe didn't even really have an IME effect in teh hands of MM. . . I would have assumed that the IME effect of a weapon was proportional to it's bonus/power. At +7, I was expecting something dramatic!

[Aegis J Hyena]

It occurred to me Fumbles is having moments of "realization" before doing his actions, despite losing his "voice", so to speak. Reminds me of John Der Trihs in the comic Schlock Mercenary (whose brain was "upgraded" to allow himself to solve any problem given enough info for a solution) --- is there a class that can do that?

[Liquidmark]

I see. I thought he was saying that the weapon itself can't cut. But, we don't know if the sword can't cut through, say, adamantium. Minmax hasn't tried. One thing that is known is that, in his hands, the sword is indestructible and an immovable object. We don't know if it can be unstoppable. If it is unstoppable and indestructible, then it should be able to cut through any material.

Thunt's gone into this on a livestream - if Minmax blocks a sword blow with it, that's the other guy trying to move Oblivious with his sword. But if Minmax tries to, say, cut through solid rock with it, that's him using Oblivious to try and affect the rock.

So his ability to penetrate armor would be limited to his own strength and the damage of Oblivious on an object? My thinking was that, since it seems to be only affected by the position of MinMax's hand and it is indestructible, that it shouldn't be stoppable when he swings because its spatial position seemd to be based on where Minmax's arm is located and not other factors in the environment because nothing else effects it.

My thing is that, if Minmax moves it in the path of another sword to block it, that's him using Oblivious to stop the trajectory of an incoming object. The object doesn't pass through it or move it because Oblivious is invulnerable to being affected by anything in normal space aside from Minmax's arm.

[Sockmonkey]

Unstoppable and unmovable are the same thing actually, due to relativity.
You don't get to wiggle out of that just because this is a magic-based universe either since there are demonstrated rules about the sword's own relativity in the comic.
Consider the following: Oblivious can only be acted upon by Minmax in relation to Minmax. It cannot transmit any force to him either through it's own momentum or from any outside source. Thus, when swung it will in fact penetrate anything short of specific magic that can counter or impose force upon the unique properties of oblivion.

Now I know that people will point out how when Minmax was wielding the blade before, it still moved as if it could be blocked. This would be due to the same force of habit that makes people playing laser tag jerk their hands up when they fire, despite the fact that such the toy guns have no recoil. You expect it, so your body reflexively supplies it when not present.
One of the D&D manuals even points out how our bodies react with psychosomatic responses to illusions such as a person fainting when hit by an illusory fireball.

One could argue that the unmovable property of the sword only applies when an external force tries to move the sword relative to Minmax. However, this would still give the sword the property of being unstoppable in the following scenario:
Minmax has Oblivious in his hand and is walking towards a stone wall. When upon contact it will penetrate and Minmax will feel nothing as it sinks to the hilt until he himself smacks into the wall. Since the sword cannot be be moved relative to him, and Minmax is not moving it relative to himself, it must pass through anything it touches as he walks because no force can be imparted to him through the sword.
Take it a step farther and say the sword's immovable property only applies in reference to the world itself.
Using the unmovable blocking action would then yank Minmax off his feet if he tried it on horseback or on a moving ship then.
There is no getting around this.

The tile key had me smacking my head as well.