april -23 2013 Tight Leash

[ThroughTheWell]

WHEW, Psimax is so pissed he's blabbering information about himself.

He's monologing. All soon to be defeated villans do it.

[RocketScientist]

Grinnorarcen (not-walter) is unique in all the realms. I think this is because Hell is a different set of dimensions altogether.
We can assume this is the case because whilst he was adventuring with a Minmax from an alt reality, he had previous experiences with our reality Minmax and Forgath.

Why do you think he had experience with our Minmax and Forgath?

[RedwoodElf]

Maybe the Maze of Many is being run through an MMO, with all the alts being played by various other players interacting with FMK's players?

[SeeAMoose]

I just need to put this out there because it is awesome.

Fair warning, the following contains a scene from the upcoming comic taken from the broadcast.
Massive spoilers inside!

► Show Spoiler

Are you really sure?

► Show Spoiler

[binarytears]

BEFORE I look at the spoiler... it occurs to me that Kin's reasoning just now would be:

Without the keys we can't win. So we're going to be reset anyway. I don't know for sure if my collar explodes if I take it off. I DO know that if it explodes while I'm close to Psymax it might kill him too. And he doesn't reset.
Also, if I pull it off and it *doesn't* explode, then just possibly I might be able to get it onto Psymax's neck.
Psymax has the ability to go through walls. So with him under the leash we could save MinMax, AND still get into the treasure room.
And besides, I'd rather die than be forced to obey the leash again.
So.... <rips off collar>

Maybe our group is about to acquire a Psion accessory.

[Your.Master]

I think the assumptions of alt-Herbert, alt-Thunt, and alt-players is missing something.

Psimax said "As far as I can tell, no real points of divergence from the most common multiversal attributes."

Every other reality does seem to have some unique divergence. What if Psimax is missing something (other than love). What if their unique divergence is they are from the universe where they are Player Characters rather than NPCs?

After all, that's the only way this comic could be representing a "real" game, as opposed to a game within a game.

[Krulle]

WHEW, Psimax is so pissed he's blabbering information about himself.

He's monologing. All soon to be defeated villans do it.

This!

Also: Thanks for teaching me new tricks with that spoiler, SeeAMoose.
Also, the spoiler is very much Thuntonian humour.
I already saw the image, but not the text attached to it.

But indeed, it is a spoiler. (not that big for me, as I expected something similar... lack of upper body strength? (panel 2) Yeah.... sure.)

[Liesmith]

In regards to that spoiler, I have theory (that it's a demon...a psychic demon! No, something isn't right, there), but it's also a spoiler:

► Show Spoiler

I think the nature of Psimax's arms will render him unable to use the leash as intended. He'll let his guard down and HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGS!

[CelineSSauve]

BEFORE I look at the spoiler... it occurs to me that Kin's reasoning just now would be:

Without the keys we can't win. So we're going to be reset anyway. I don't know for sure if my collar explodes if I take it off. I DO know that if it explodes while I'm close to Psymax it might kill him too. And he doesn't reset.
Also, if I pull it off and it *doesn't* explode, then just possibly I might be able to get it onto Psymax's neck.
Psymax has the ability to go through walls. So with him under the leash we could save MinMax, AND still get into the treasure room.
And besides, I'd rather die than be forced to obey the leash again.
So.... <rips off collar>

Maybe our group is about to acquire a Psion accessory.

So much wrong about that... *shivers*

The main one? Kin would never do that to any sentient creature. Have you already forgotten what she's told the Demon (or is he a Devil)?

Also, she would have no clue if PsiMax resets or not. Heck, we don't even know.

[Linkcharge]

So.... <rips off collar>

No can do. A cursed item cannot simply be ripped off. It would require a remove curse spell.

[Tofu]

Maybe PsiMax has +3 to rip of cursed clothing

[ForgetsOldName]

Or it may not be cursed at all.

Can anyone tell me what would happen if she just tried to pull if off and it was cursed? Forget the possible explosions for the time being. Would her fingers pass through it? Would it become so strong so that she could not break it? Would she suffer damage? Would it break a +4 admantium knife?

[Krulle]

I think that would depend on the exact curse which has been put on the leash....

[stevedj]

Call it a gut feeling... but I think ... this is the LAST RUN of the MoM. I think.. Minmax.. is going to do what Psimax hasn't been able to do.. destroy the maze and end the cycle. Minmax I don't know if he will realize what he is going to do.. but I think he will do it just the same.

As for the current predicament.. I could see Forgath speaking up and telling Psimax to leave Kin alone and he'll answer whatever he wants to know... just don't use that leash on her... just a feeling.

Why? Because love makes the impossible... possible.

When you said that thing about love, it made me think of that prophecy (about love fueling hate)... could it be that Kin and MM's love for each other could fuel PsiMax's hatred of them, because it is messing up his oblivion machine?

But then I went and found that prophecy page, here.

And the part the wall says before the actual prophecy seems quite revealing, something I hadn't thought of before (and don't remember seeing it mentioned in the forums):

It says that if they ever find those goblins, that it will end badly for both of them (them == Forgath and MM). That means in order for them to meet the goblins, they have to BOTH be TOGETHER! That suggests to me that at least those two must survive the Maze.

[catchesafish]

As much leverage as I would like to give that spoiler image, I've not seen enough (any) of Thunt's previous wait screens. Has he done stuff like this before? IE given away a future panel with something goofy on it?

If that's the case, I'm very interested in how they'll reach this particular scene.

[CelineSSauve]

As much leverage as I would like to give that spoiler image, I've not seen enough (any) of Thunt's previous wait screens. Has he done stuff like this before? IE given away a future panel with something goofy on it?

If that's the case, I'm very interested in how they'll reach this particular scene.

That spoiler is from the comic. Thunt put that dialogue in there before he left to do something.

[ForgetsOldName]

If you watch the live feed you will see many panels that give away the next strip. It's worth saying though that sometimes the panels are misleading without the dialogue and context, that Thunt will choose not to draw the really, really, spoilerish panels on cam, and most importantly, that Thunt has been known to mess with us.

That is, if the next panel would be a certain person killing a certain other person, we would not see that panel at all. Or if was the certain other person killing the certain person as well. Or if it were something out of left field, like three very angry alt-Kins who don't take kindly to leash abuse--we wouldn't see this either.

[CelineSSauve]

that Thunt has been known to mess with us.

Yeah... I find it a little suspect that he went offline just before starting on the panel he said he was worried about.

[sunphoenix]

Call it a gut feeling... but I think ... this is the LAST RUN of the MoM. I think.. Minmax.. is going to do what Psimax hasn't been able to do.. destroy the maze and end the cycle. Minmax I don't know if he will realize what he is going to do.. but I think he will do it just the same.

As for the current predicament.. I could see Forgath speaking up and telling Psimax to leave Kin alone and he'll answer whatever he wants to know... just don't use that leash on her... just a feeling.

Why? Because love makes the impossible... possible.

When you said that thing about love, it made me think of that prophecy (about love fueling hate)... could it be that Kin and MM's love for each other could fuel PsiMax's hatred of them, because it is messing up his oblivion machine?

But then I went and found that prophecy page, here.

And the part the wall says before the actual prophecy seems quite revealing, something I hadn't thought of before (and don't remember seeing it mentioned in the forums):

It says that if they ever find those goblins, that it will end badly for both of them (them == Forgath and MM). That means in order for them to meet the goblins, they have to BOTH be TOGETHER! That suggests to me that at least those two must survive the Maze.

OH CRAP! I think I see what Might happen...

FMK arrive to where the goblins are and MM goes to kill Complians and ...kin recognizing them intervenes.. there is a struggle and MM hits Kin striking her down... making the serpent become his prey... MM Blames Complains for hitting/killing his love and goes into rage. Then Kore Arrives while they fight and Forgath is slain fighting to hold him off while MM and complains battle it out ...

A Real cluster screwing...!!! And sad for both... as kin slips into -10.

[Krulle]

I think each reality has a not-Walter demon, and that MM brought his demon in as part of his party, so it should reset over and over like party members, except that it is a demon and may be badass enough to make its own rules. Pretty harsh for the demon; he gets away but then there's a reset and it never happened, or did it? It depends on the nature of demons. Same way there's a teapot for every winner. Did we ever find out if every group is after the Jade Teapot? or are some of them after other prizes?
Big L, if these are versions of our group, then their players must be versions of our group. So there's a huge multiverse full of Evil Herberts? (shudder)

I am pretty sure, that Not-Walter always reappeared and apperently has no memory of doing so.

Here Not-Walter #38 explains that he does not want to be here and his compelled to fight. No hint of doing so again.
And he shows no sign of trusting Kin because he knows that she will do as promised (as possibly in previous runs).
Here PsiMax discloses that Reality 38 will enter within a few minutes, and that he prefers the group to die in the tower room again. Implying that they WILL survive the encounter with Reality 38 and Not-Walter #38.
Together with the current update it becomes clear, that our group normally survives the encounter with Reality 38 completely alive to get to the tower room.

This leads me to the conclusion, that our Kin likely used the same trick in most runs to defeat reality #38.
This leads me to the conclusion, that Not-Walter #38 (Grinnorarcen) will be rest, and does not retain his memory.

(BTW, we don't know whether our Not-Walter is also named Grinnorarcen, or whether Not-Walter #38 has an unusually easily guessable name different from Not-Walters of the multiverse, being the reason why reality #38 is the only one coming with a demon...).

OH CRAP! I think I see what Might happen...

FMK arrive to where the goblins are and MM goes to kill Complians and ...kin recognizing them intervenes.. there is a struggle and MM hits Kin striking her down... making the serpent become his prey... MM Blames Complains for hitting/killing his love and goes into rage. Then Kore Arrives while they fight and Forgath is slain fighting to hold him off while MM and complains battle it out ...

Why would Kin do that (teleporting to the GAP with Complains of Names)? She would have to leave the Jade Teapot behind, her only reason to dungeon crawl at all.

[DrinksTooMuchCoffee]

(BTW, we don't know whether our Not-Walter is also named Grinnorarcen, or whether Not-Walter #38 has an unusually easily guessable name different from Not-Walters of the multiverse, being the reason why reality #38 is the only one coming with a demon...).

And somewhere in the multiverses there is a poor demon named Walter enslaved to a stupid MinMax.

[sunphoenix]

OH CRAP! I think I see what Might happen...

FMK arrive to where the goblins are and MM goes to kill Complians and ...kin recognizing them intervenes.. there is a struggle and MM hits Kin striking her down... making the serpent become his prey... MM Blames Complains for hitting/killing his love and goes into rage. Then Kore Arrives while they fight and Forgath is slain fighting to hold him off while MM and complains battle it out ...

Why would Kin do that (teleporting to the GAP with Complains of Names)? She would have to leave the Jade Teapot behind, her only reason to dungeon crawl at all.

Hmmm.. Valid point.

[Changes_everything]

Still, I always wondered what that unopened bottom compartment of the chest was about. Okay, it's a theory, but one that is supported by Thunt's drawing, and he does not make any mistakes like an unexplained shut lock on a treasure chest. In fact, he rarely ever makes any mistakes at all, save for some colouring stuff maybe, but NEVER on the story side.

Unopened compartment? I seem to remember a theory about that on the old forum but not clearly.

Here's the best picture of the chest

This is referring to those four small lever-things at the bottom of the chest, yeah? How they seemed to move for the CHA, STR, and DEX keys but not the INT key? I noticed that detail too but I don't think it's relevant. I think that if it was important or an unopened compartment then Thunt would've at least given it a casual mention through one of the characters even if they didn't open it and it would most probably have been Kin. You know like she would say, "This chest seems to have another compartment..."

Chekov's Guns only works if you foreshadow them, otherwise they come off as an asspull. I don't think we're ever going back to that room, that chest or that key. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

Here, my theory again:

This chest has a hidden compartment, maybe by turning the keys into the other direction you can open the double locks at the bottom. Why do I believe that? Well:



1 - All three locks opened by the other group are open at the lower end. Not so the last one, opened by our MinMax.

Why draw the locks like that, with "holes" where the lower end of each lock would be as well, and the leftmost lock different from the others?
Thunt simply does not draw things like that without a meaning. At least not that I have heard of.

2 - The middle lock allows for opening along the line there.

3 - A bit hard to spot, but: The boards do not line up as you would expect from a chest that has a side made to be one there. The lowermost board "sticks out" a bit, as you would expect it to be when a chest really opens there. The corresponding part on the left is conveniently hidden by Minmax' hand...

Enough for a theory, what do you think?

[CelineSSauve]

Enough for a theory, what do you think?

Hmm... Maybe? But I find it doubtful that it'll be something that comes up, because they can't really get back to that room, have no real reason to, and would lose all the experiences of this run if they reset. (And we, the Fans, would be at arms over that, I'd think. )

[LAYF]

Hmm.. how about...
The maze DO reset... BUT.. an oblivion hole has eaten MFK groups Counter!!!!
O_O