July 1st, 2013 Grossly Overpowered

[apotato]

Wait... it's the actual NUMBER 77,914,839,447 that is his weakness? Not any particular representation of it?

no this is exactly the opposite of the situation. the text clearly states his weakness was translated into a number

random equations and junk

you cant do arbitrary maths at a number and expect to arrive at any kind of answer.

I looked at the number for a few minutes last night before bed, and I came up with something:

Take each grouping of numbers, convert them into decimal numbers, then into hexadecimal values, yielding EE14f. Throw in a zero in front of it, then input it into am html color generator thingie:



Cool thing that happens when you reverse it:



Maybe a green IME? Kin's, perhaps?

you cant add additional digits to binary and hexadecimal values, they do not follow that kind of representation. if a byte of information has 3 zero's at the start you dont just cut them out. both one's and zero's are significant.

[Liesmith]

you cant do arbitrary maths at a number and expect to arrive at any kind of answer.

That got me thinking; the Three and a Half Kins have access to a machine that was built specifically to perform arbitrary math and arrive at a predetermined answer. If they can tweak the function of the Engine, they could change the equation from:

1 = 0

to

77,914,439,447 = 0

[binarytears]

Wait... it's the actual NUMBER 77,914,839,447 that is his weakness? Not any particular representation of it?

no this is exactly the opposite of the situation. the text clearly states his weakness was translated into a number

Depends which meaning of 'translated' was meant.
If they meant like translating one language to another, then it's the written symbol series "77,914,839,447" that is his weakness. So, is that with or without comas? And in which national form; using "." or "," as separator? And which base is that? Might be base 10, or some higher base. What if you say the numbers, like "seven seven nine one four"... etc. Because that's what she said. She didn't write it.

But I took 'translated' in the other sense - it seems more likely to me. In which the word means more like transported, moved, etc. In which case the statement is saying its the actual, abstract number itself that is his weakness. The integer 77,914,839,447, which we just happen to represent in that written form, but can equally well be represented in many other ways. None of which *are* the number. They are just tokens representing it.

That's why I suggested PsyMax's machine might be a way to attack the actual integer number. Prove it doesn't exist. Oblivionate it.
I never did understand why "the number of the Beast" is such a trivial number. Psymax had much more sense, to choose to seriously big one.

[nitwit]

I never did understand why "the number of the Beast" is such a trivial number. Psymax had much more sense, to choose to seriously big one.

if not already mentioned...
Supposedly, the number of the beast, if converted from numbers to letters, spells "Nero" in the roman alphabet, who is credited with the worst attrocities against the christians. The actual number being 616 and not 666(a mistranslation) atleast this is the claim of numerous specials on the history channel(yeah insomnia!)

I for one will be sorely disappointed if this number is completely random, and doesn't have a really good explanation, especially given the amount of effort so far put into tdeciphering it.
Personally i have no clue.

[apotato]

two chains of thought on the number.

it's either an arbitrary number to replace the truly awful crypto night joke

OR

it's a specific plot point borrowed from a future page (the next one even) and brought forward to fill the empty panels

i'm erring on the latter. so i don't think our theories will be wasted effort anymore than they will be when they were all wrong anyway.

[apotato]

But I took 'translated' in the other sense - it seems more likely to me. In which the word means more like transported, moved, etc. In which case the statement is saying its the actual, abstract number itself that is his weakness. The integer 77,914,839,447, which we just happen to represent in that written form, but can equally well be represented in many other ways. None of which *are* the number. They are just tokens representing it.

but that brings us back to using the notion of a number to weaken someone. while this IS DnD and they do refer to dicerolls. the action on the page isn't throwing dice, it's swings, hits and misses. if it were to be something like throw a 17 that is the kind of thing that the Non-DnD fans (myself included) would groan and call lazy writing.

to this point the player characters have only lightly broken the 4th wall, if a solution to the problem specifically breaks the 4th wall the story fans aren't likely to appreciate it. personally i haven't been a great fan of this entire arc and functionally the whole arc is a pointless exp grind for FMK.

IF we are breaking walls for solutions

that number could represent the number of ludicrously good rolls psimax has had. and his machine may be making sure he's playing with loaded dice.

[Krulle]

two chains of thought on the number.

it's either an arbitrary number to replace the truly awful crypto night joke.

That, and his weakness is encompassed in the universal constant number
seventy-seven billion nine hundred fourteen million eight hundred thirty-nine thousand four hundred forty-seven
as defined by PsiMax himself. I mean, he made a list of all constants and variables in this pocket universe so that he has sufficient gears to manipulate them all directly or indirectly.
And the variable or constant which describes his weakness best (there comes the translation) has that incredible high number (nearly 8 billion).

(I think a number like that deserves it own line)

[willpell]

"You don't know my Minmax"

Seriously, my heart skipped a beat. Nobody else felt that?

Apparently, that sword isn't the only thing that should be called oblivious.

Humanity sure is becoming cold and creepy, isn't it?

It's a bit of a failed aesop anyway; within the same comic, 'half-kin' admits she was wrong. Though IMO she gave up a bit easily, just because one weapon got splishked. I mean, MM has Improved Unarmed Strike, and PM can't splishk both of MM's hands without making it impossible for him to draw Oblivious.

[SlothOfDoom]

I've got it! If you add each separate digit together ( 7+7+9+1+4+8+3+9+4+4+7 ) you get 63. In ASCII, 63 translates to "?"

So basically Kin just said she has no idea what the number is.

Ok, maybe not.

[Liesmith]

two chains of thought on the number.

it's either an arbitrary number to replace the truly awful crypto night joke

What is this joke people keep referring to?

[willpell]

What is this joke people keep referring to?

I already asked that and got an answer.

[Vreejack]

77,914,839,447. If you were to pick an eleven-digit number at random it would probably have about fifteen factors. This one has only three: 3 * 3 * 8657204383. It is extremely unlikely that this occurred by chance, so assuming it didn't, what does it mean? The three numbers could be dimensions of a three-dimensional object. A slender rod three units thick by three units wide by 8657204383 units long would kill Psymax. Which would be an object nine orders of magnitude longer than it is thick. A toothpick one millimeter thick would have to be about 300 kilometers long. So much for that idea.

[Quimper]

Hehe, if you translate the first half into letter it spells out: "gg in 839,447".

[Zambee]

two chains of thought on the number.

it's either an arbitrary number to replace the truly awful crypto night joke

What is this joke people keep referring to?

Something like the above

Kin1: Everything has its opposite;
Kin2: Every day has its night.
Kin3: The psion Minmax has hidden his weakness in a cryptographically.
Forgath: So, we're looking for his crypto-night?

[T' Northerner]

77,914,839,447. If you were to pick an eleven-digit number at random it would probably have about fifteen factors. This one has only three: 3 * 3 * 8657204383. It is extremely unlikely that this occurred by chance, so assuming it didn't, what does it mean? The three numbers could be dimensions of a three-dimensional object. A slender rod three units thick by three units wide by 8657204383 units long would kill Psymax. Which would be an object nine orders of magnitude longer than it is thick. A toothpick one millimeter thick would have to be about 300 kilometers long. So much for that idea.

But people don't pick numbers at random, especially if they want it to 'feel' random. No-one is going to end a chosen on a whim number with a 0 or 5 for example. We're much more likely to use a lot of 1's and 7's because they seem randomer. And if you think of the numbers 1-100, those ending in 7 have less factors than those ending in 3 for example. However, this doesn't necessarily mean there is any great significance to it, just that humans are terrible random number generators.

[EatsAPeach]

Yeah, I'm going back and forth about what's going to happen. "You don't know my MinMax" seemed like a setup, because they aren't wearing 'KEN' necklaces; they DON'T know what MinMax is capable of (and somewhere TortureMax is desperately looking for Kins to save; are they his Xmas present?). This is a great opportunity for MM #156 to outwit and defeat the psion in front of four admiring women, which would tend to raise their opinion of MMs a great deal.
But I expect THunt to have something shinier in reserve, and that idea about setting his number to equal zero might work, because his remote control is broken now. But I think PM would get back there in time to stop them from setting it to zero, and MM is going to fight him and win, and his last words are going to be "Impossible! Oblivion doesn't WORK like that -kkkk." (Then he will go to that special place in hell forever.) Ten minutes later MM says "What did he mean by that? Hey? My sword doesn't work now that I've thought about how it works."

[EatsAPeach]

There's one other possibility: we are discounting Forgath because his butt is stuck to the wall. But look at his face; something is going on there. The more I think about setting PM's number to zero, the more I think that if he got obliviated, he'd never get to that special place in hell where you go when you die complaining about the rules. I really think it's going to be "Hey, that sword can't do that -urk! Ack! Not FAIR! Gaahhh."

I've also been thinking about TortureMax, who is almost exactly our MinMax. The main difference is that Kin didn't kill Goblinslayer; there may be several parties nearly identical to ours, diverging on minor things like armor and backstory choices. Most MMs have the eye damage, meaning the encounter with the goblins is driving their plot, and nearly all of them have allied with Kin in some way. TortureMax never got to have a birthday party for Kin, but there are a lot of Kins who wear the necklace as well as the collar. Of course, PM may be about to kill everyone in that tower room and make all this speculation wasted, but MM #156 may have unexpected allies coming.
I have been assuming that Grinnorarcen is not powerful enough to be a surefire mazebreaker, because the Maze has been run millions of times and GoldMax is still here, beaten every time. But could he take PsiMax out if Kin, about to die, whispered "Grinnorarcen, PLEASE?" Not a command, not a summons, just 'do you owe me one?'

[WhispersToSquirrels]

I have been assuming that Grinnorarcen is not powerful enough to be a surefire mazebreaker, because the Maze has been run millions of times and GoldMax is still here, beaten every time.

Do we know how many times GoldMax has run the maze?

[bcas77]

I have been assuming that Grinnorarcen is not powerful enough to be a surefire mazebreaker, because the Maze has been run millions of times and GoldMax is still here, beaten every time.

Do we know how many times GoldMax has run the maze?

Nope, not yet. Who knows, this may very well be his first time and our FMK got really lucky!

[Wolfie]

Do we know how many times GoldMax has run the maze?

Nope, not yet. Who knows, this may very well be his first time and our FMK got really lucky!

Or Kin could have outsmarted him with Not-Walter and beaten him every time that way. We'll never know.. unless someone makes a fan fiction of it and it's then endorsed by THunt himself.

[EatsAPeach]

I have been assuming that Grinnorarcen is not powerful enough to be a surefire mazebreaker, because the Maze has been run millions of times and GoldMax is still here, beaten every time.

Do we know how many times GoldMax has run the maze?

Nope, not yet. Who knows, this may very well be his first time and our FMK got really lucky!

Notice that PM told our group "you always die in the Tower room," which means they are not losing by much; they are one of the top groups and we have seen others wiped out early. I'm assuming most of them started at the same time, since we saw hundreds of them at the beginning. So I'd think GoldMax has run it as many times as our heroes and lost every time. Also, there must have been a Kin at one time to tell him about the Maze, and probably a Forgath too, and where are they? Pretty clearly Grinnorcen is not a tremendously-powerful creature. Complains/Junior killed several demons uglier than him, and we've seen 'junior-arms' as well as the psion's force arms, so PsiMax could probably take him, but then Noe could have taken K'Seliss in a fair fight.

[willpell]

Nope, not yet. Who knows, this may very well be his first time and our FMK got really lucky!

Psimax knew that Reality 38 "would" kill 156 and so released them from the wall that Pipemax had collared them onto. So it's obviously not GoldMax's first trip through the maze. Also, there's no need to assume that GoldMax had a Kin; Grinnorarcen being a demon (not to mention Herbert's errand-boy, and thus potentially a giver of quests), he could easily have known about the Maze of Many. Heck, I wouldn't put it past him to have sent GoldMax there deliberately, in the hope that in an infinite number of runs, GoldMax would somehow manage to free him (on the assumption that his enslavement would not reset).

[EatsAPeach]

I've been assuming that most of these FMK-like parties are following a similar script; there are scarred MM's, one-horned Forgath's, and raped Kins wearing collars everywhere. I figure they all entered Brassmoon, or a similar place, met Dellyn and Kin, and left with Dellyn dead or wrecked and Kin as a new party member, and all got the quest from Kin. But you are correct; any Forgath or MinMax who heard about the Maze within that same timeslot could have tried it alone or with other party members and ended up in the Maze. Maybe not-Walter was setting GoldMax up?
Hell, only THunt knows. Hey THunt, is every party a 'cognate' of ours? Did they all step into the Maze at the same time? I assumed the Maze would run multiple sessions for each person who stepped in; if the Goblins got there five minutes later they would step into a Maze filled with alternate goblins?

[SamWiser]

Theoretically the maze exists outside of time (probably an alternate dimension) so it wouldn't matter when they entered. They would all be there together.

[RidcullyJack]

(snip) ... but there are a lot of Kins who wear the necklace as well as the collar. (snip)

Just three to spot, out of dozens of Kins we've seen. As well as our Kin, 02112011-4 and 07222011.