The Goblins Fan Forum

In terms of the traveling to Hell - maybe this is where Minmax may have a chance to shine - after all, he has heard NotWalter's true name now (unless of course his name is different in this reality...)

Anyway, with THunt's propensity for setting up things a long time ago, I wouldn't be surprised if NotWatler makes an appearance soon.

Just had a new thought.

Al has no reason to lie. His purpose is to impress upon the puny mortals how hopeless their situation is. Their entire world is in the process of becoming the newest layer of hell, and there's an unimaginably powerful demon who will rule over it all. Al's point is that they should spare themselves. Just give up now. No point in fighting when they're so insignificant. Might as well surrender to him now. Better than being killed and claimed by a more powerful demon, right?

But Al doesn't seem to be very smart. He's inadvertently given Ears some major clues. And, I think, there's an even bigger clue which the GAP has not yet caught.

The first Prissan was made by evil to trap some powerful source of pure good. Al insists that it's not just equal to the Axe but superior. Which means it has to be trapping something which is at least on par with the Sacred.

The second Prissan is the Axe. Fueled by good deeds, it breaks on contact with anything demonic. At which point it becomes a portal to hell powerful enough to eventually consume the entire world.

The third Prissan traps "damned souls."

So here's what I'm thinking.

The demons created the Hammer of Prissan, trapping some incredibly powerful force of pure good. The Greyhill paladins fought the demons, trying to reclaim the Hammer's prisoner. That's what lured them into hell. But they failed. In failing, they created the Axe in an attempt to seal off the Sacred and at least level the playing field. The demons then cursed Kore, the last surviving Greyhill paladin, getting him to bring the Axe back to the GAP's reality. Kore himself is the third Prissan. His curse compels him to claim the souls of anyone even slightly evil, so that when the demons emerge from the Axe they'll have a bountiful harvest ready and waiting.

But here's the thing. The Hammer is the key. The entity it's trapping is the only force for good powerful enough to fight the Sacred. And, if the Hammer works like the Axe, then Ears (who is pure good) might just be able to break it. That's how they stop this. That's how they win.

But where is the Hammer? We've seen no sign of it, heard no legends of it.

If I'm right, the Hammer is in hell. That's where the paladins went to fight. The paladins who knew about the Hammer and were desperate enough to get it that they would risk sending their entire order into hell for it.

WearsHats wrote:[...] Kore himself is the third Prissan. His curse compels him to claim the souls of anyone even slightly evil, so that when the demons emerge from the Axe they'll have a bountiful harvest ready and waiting.

That's what I was thinking of tonight, when thinking of Kore's IME (the wing of faces).

Since this is what Thunt wanted to scream at us since 11 years, I think BE hit the truth.
Without Thunt's tweets on this subject, I would've taken it as a theory to be proven or disproven later.

What would happen ifthey tied the axe to Oblivious and Minimax let go? Would the axe be pulled into the future? If so, would it buy them time?

Minimax just never reaches for Oblivious till they're in the other realm or they've a way to defeat the demon deity.

Would that work?

This is MinMax we're talking about though. He'd reach for the sword the moment he stubbed his toe.

So yeah, I'm on the same camp that Ears had a moment of badassery but words are empty if you can't follow through. How exactly is he planing on getting the axe to hell, in the time it will take for the big cheese to escape the axe (which I'm assuming is not a long time).

Krulle wrote:

Rooks wrote:First.... SQUEE! I get to create the comic thread. I hope I did it right.

You're lacking the provisional "permalink": http://www.goblinscomic.org/09082016-2/

Fixed!

I have only this much time to say this before my battery dies, but,

That... Was... Awesome!

I suspect is the hammer and the axe ever touch they would both be destroyed, immediately releasing what they were designed to imprison. (magic like that tends to interfere destructively with its opposite. So the result of the two touching would be both unraveling).

We now know the history of the Axe it magically imparted was a lie. The Grayhill Paladins died in hell.

And it's likely the reason evil is winning is because of the hammer.

The ultimate quest, then, would be to cast the axe back into hell, to destroy the hammer, and change the fate of the entire multiverse.

And our party isn't even near level 10.

This is going to be one hell of a quest.

What I'm wondering is, can we "break" Kore's Prissan and release the damned? And what would happen if we did? Would they be released into the hell plane? Could Chief fight with us there? What about Taps, Haul, Targoth Bladebeard and all the monsters Kore killed at the beginning of the comic?

Also, is the trapped good god/spirit/whatever the reason "evil is winning" in the multiverse? Maybe trapping it threw the multiverse out of balance?

Problem would be solved easily. All Minmax has to do is call Not-Walter. Axe gone.

Also, someone mentioned the Axe is breaking because Ears is a Paladin? If that is the case, can't he just hand it to Complains? A Demon holding it would surely stop it from breaking wouldn't it?

But then, Complains' touch obviously sped up the breaking....

Minmax can't summon him. You need powerful magic to summon a pit demon. Even if he did, he'd have to remember and correctly pronounce his name, and Minmax isn't very good at that. Even so, a pit demon is kind of mid-level. Powerful enough to squash the flea, but I'm pretty sure the Sacred would squash him just as easily.

As for a paladin wielding the Axe, that's happened quite a lot. Saral Cane was in the minority of Axe wielders in that he wasn't a paladin. Paladins strengthen the Axe. Demons weaken it. The thing that seems to have broken it was coming in contact with Kore (and his demon curse).

If Big Ears is right, the demon deity must have pulled quite an act to convince that orc to give him away just to make sure a paladin was near. Or was the idea of waiting a few years longer really torture to it, despite its immortal patience?

I'm not the first to suggest that Kore may carry (or even BE) the third Prissan, but what about the first? The "monster" Big Ears whose weapon exploded was carrying a hammer, and it was "tricked" into fighting its own brother just like Ears was.
We already know they detect as monstrously evil, so it's more than just a reflection of the party.
I suspect this may tie back into the Maze of Many storyline, which established that alternates may be transported between realities.

WearsHats wrote:Minmax can't summon him. You need powerful magic to summon a pit demon.

No, you don't. You only need their name. Magic is only needed if you don't have a name. Though, yeah, I'll give ya Minmax is too stupid.

WearsHats wrote:Minmax can't summon him. You need powerful magic to summon a pit demon. Even if he did, he'd have to remember and correctly pronounce his name, and Minmax isn't very good at that. .

Au contraire. Summoning a demon is easy. Binding a demon is hard.

Can't they just piss off Herbert and get him to send a message via Not-Walter? Then they can be all "So you can kill this flea demon if you want. And then could you please bring this axe back to hell when you go? Kthx."

Although I'm expecting that we have to go to the hells with it for some reason I don't yet understand.

If summoning a demon was that easy, then there'd be no point to Kin having banished him in the MoM. Minmax would just call him back. And he'd have known that, so there'd be no reason for him to have taken the huge risk of entrusting his name to Kin.

I think there's too much thinking going on here. It might very well be possible that the demons dislike the axe, because it messes with their plan to create a decent gateway. If that's the case they've just been trying to undermine it, or just started that in hope of getting what they want now that they have the option, while they themselves have nothing to do with the axe. Or am I missing a part where the flea demon said that they made it themselves?

Still weird that the info Ears got when claiming the axe is wrong though...

Guus wrote:Still weird that the info Ears got when claiming the axe is wrong though...

Influence of the demon(s) tweaking the wording as enters his mind?


Just remembered all of the people who were dead set convinced that Kore was Forgath from the future...

spiderwrangler wrote:

Guus wrote:Still weird that the info Ears got when claiming the axe is wrong though...

Influence of the demon(s) tweaking the wording as enters his mind?


Just remembered all of the people who were dead set convinced that Kore was Forgath from the future...

At this point, we don't know whether the info is wrong or not. Ears is making a lot of assumptions in his speech, but the only one that has actual evidence is that the battle took place in hell. It's entirely possible that the demon deity planned to be imprisoned and is counting on the axe breaking, but we don't know what conditions would make that happen. Good deeds might still keep it strong and evil deeds might still weaken it (although that was not part of the original information), so the demon might just have gone with the assumption that sooner or later, even a paladin wouldn't be able to do enough good deeds.
There is at least one page on a previous owner of the axe (Myorg the Ogre) which strongly implies that the original information is true. Of course if we assume that the information about the axe was wrong and that Big Ears' theory is right, then by extention we have to assume that all the pages on previous owners of the axe are made up as well.

Morgaln wrote:Of course if we assume that the information about the axe was wrong and that Big Ears' theory is right, then by extension we have to assume that all the pages on previous owners of the axe are made up as well.

Well, not necessarily. Demons can tell the truth when it suits them, especially partial, edited truths. Those pages could be mostly or entirely true, because to the Sacred they don't much matter. After all, a lie about trivial facts that might someday be checked independently would serve no purpose, and might imperil the larger lie.

Be that as it may, either Ears is wrong now or the page that magically shows the history, abilities and purpose of the axe is wrong.
Now that I think about it: I thought it would be possible that the axe itself wasn't the prison, but more of a charger that works on a distance that fuels the prison in hell. Except that the page on the axe specifically states that the axe is the prison. According to THunt, this page was very important and eleven years in the making, so I'm assuming there to be some important truth in there. But if that's the case, how does that explain the inconsistency between the page 9 years ago and the page now?

I still think that prissan actually is the prison, and that the demon is trying to manipulatie BE in doing something he'll regret.
Meh, wait and see I guess, I'm pretty confused

I agree. I can't reconcile the Axe info with what Ears is saying now. For example, the first thing the info page says is that the demon ripped its way out of hell and into "this, the prime material plane." Which is exactly what Ears just said it didn't do. One of them is wrong.