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Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:26 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
Used spoiler tags for brevity.
@Wears
► Show Spoiler
Cost:
8 coins
Boots
► Show Spoiler
Increases the range of continous movement skill tokens by 1.
(E.g.: Run, Combat Movement, Exhaust)
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When landing on a mine, boots propel the player in the direction identical to the directon in which they have moved, having 25% chance of destroying in the process. In case of spawning or teleporting (or other form of directionless movement), the player isn't moved further anywhere, though they will still avoid the explosion.
► Show Spoiler
Increases the Answer the Call skill tokens level by 1. (Or grants a level 1 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Heroic only.
Increases the Punish skill tokens level by 1. (Or grants a level 1 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Heroic only.
If a heroic skill has been used in the turn, allows another main action next turn, then this ability goes on a 5 turns cooldown.
► Show Spoiler
Increases the Treasue! skill tokens level by 1. (Or grants a level 1 skill if the player does not have it.)
@gamecreator
I assume you still go for one item for 46 coins, right?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:18 pm
by gamecreator
No, I do not. As I said, less than 46 coins is acceptable. Exact value is up to you. If you feel that it would be better to offer items like example boots, then do that.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:20 pm
by WearsHats
Hmn. Boots of speed or tin foil hat? I don't currently have any movement skills. Would the boots do anything for me? Or would I have to wait to level up?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:59 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
@Wears:
No, boots of speed wouldn't add anything to you just yet in that case (which is an error of my part since I tried to make sure every item is useful. Ah well. Gonna reroll it if nothing else is to your liking). You could try to reroll all of your skills though, since if you go for the heroic spelunker you will get a spelunker and a heroic token at each level since they don't have much in common. (means 4 tokens surely in category for your level 2). Also you are about 3 XP away from leveling up, you could even gamble in the hope of getting something fitting.
@gamecreator
Yes, but you see, it is still far too many combinations. I mean, my random algorithm is something along this way:
basic item of Something = basic item cost + few golds, depending on buff strength: + 0-4 coin cost
extra levels: +n*5 coin per level
extra quality: coin cost depends on rolled quality class.
So up to 46 gold means the following cases:
10-15 base gold item (jewellery and pricey base items, like magic stuff) of Something up to +3, or with quality boost ranging from small to large and even with +1/2 to level
6 base gold item (pricy base item) with guaranteed quality and of Something buffs, in a (good quality, +3) - (awesome quality, +1) range
4 base gold item (normal base item) with guaranteed quality and of Something buffs, in a (pretty good quality, +3) - (awesome quality, +1/2) range.
So by your request and by my mechanics I have to roll separately for everything, which would mean a lot more calculation for me (I had not finished the automatization just yet), and the result is pretty doubtful: what if you get only a bunch of 10-20 coin items and none is to your liking? What if you get a good 40 coins item but you cannot have it since you oggle more for a 20 and a 15 coin cost pair of items?
With so many possibilities I think the random roll will be more of a let down than a worthwhile gamble, and that's why I would prefer some exact numbers. Like gloves for 25 coins and masks for the rest, or 3 item types for 20,15,10 cost, or two items for 30 and 16 coins, etc. Easier for me, and more secure for you.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:55 pm
by WearsHats
You're saying I could cash in all four current tokens and reroll them? I assume that would be all or nothing. I couldn't keep Call and trade in the other two. Might still be worth it.
Or I could take the boots of speed and see what happens when I level up.
I don't know.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:54 am
by gamecreator
LooksAndSmiles wrote:
Yes, but you see, it is still far too many combinations. I mean, my random algorithm is something along this way:
I see. But you also said that one item for 46 coins may be game-breaking and that items can only get one type of bonus. I don't want either of that, but I don't know enough to determine correct item value.
Fine, if you must have exact item value, be it 23 coins. Just roll something already, because this is getting ridiculous
. I want to see items!
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:19 am
by GathersIngredients
► Show Spoiler
GathersIngredients wrote:So, out of Stumbles things (13 / 13 flags, jacket, sword, 10ft pole, pink flower wreath, 9 coins, frying pan, pointy stick), he can't use the sword and the 10 ft pole. Anything else?
Also, do we get to keep the skill tokens we earned so far? Or pick new ones? Or start at level 1 again without any?
Stumbles' skills: Jump, evil(greed), Resist, evil(lure), Visions, Rescue, +1 Tile (Neutral)
LooksAndSmiles wrote:@Gathers:
- You get to keep every skill token you already have. The class and primary trait influences what will you likely get the next level up. (1-2 "not so random" from the 4 random tokens). You can re-roll all your skill tokens now if you want to, but then there is no changing back... >:) Of course, I'm offering everyone this one-time, irreversible full skillset re-roll, but I don't think any of you guys need it.
- Yes, that will be the change to your inventory. You will lose the flower wreath tho' when the game starts. Oh wait this is a spoiler
@Nerre: well, that sounds ok. Divine casting focuses on party / ally buffs mostly, along with the reveal and similar utility skills, of course. I add "focus" on level 5 (where you will be able to select specifically find/defusing mines), but I don't really want to talk about that until someone reaches the level. "Focus" will be available for Spelunkers and Warriors too, of course.
NEW ITEM RULES
- Items no longer can be destroyed by stepping on mines. This makes the "Greed" skill less useful, see below. However, items can still can get lost in certain circumstances, like destroyed in traps, combat, stolen, or if their function is based on their destruction.
- Items will be upgradable and enchantable once you guys get to it. This means there will be different "boots" and so on, which will behave differently. Current items stay as they are, as soon as you unlock enchanting this will be cleaned up and labeled properly. (I think I've said this one already, but worth repeating.)
SKILL CHANGE
Greed: (evil): Player can greedily declare one of their item, which won't be removable by any means (stealing, destruction by stepping on mines), unless it is a natural result of one of the player induced skill, or is is the natural behavior to trigger the item special.
This changes to (caster, dark) subtype, and loses a bit of utility since items won't be dropped or destroyed just by mine stepping.
If anyone with "greed" wants to trade in the skill, I'm offering the following skill token instead:
Claim (caster, dark): Caster only. The player takes away the weapon of one enemy in melee range, provided they have empty hands to do so (or can put the current item in hand away to somewhere). As long as the player is on the map, they can use the weapons basic attack on skill level 1, and can use weapon based (warrior) skills with further level ups. When the player leaves the map for whatever reason, the weapon is dropped at their last location and is freely claimable by anyone.
TEMPORARY SHOPPING RAGE
Some of you have some money to spend and quite a lot of item slots to fill, but sadly there are not many items so far. I'm offering the following one-time deal (one-time meaning before the next map launches): you say in which slot you want to buy and item, and how much coins you want to spend on it. Then I'll make some offers which you can accept (and pay up) or decline (and keep your money you finicky b... oh wait, sorry). This feature will be permanent after about 3 maps, depending on where you drive the story.
Okay wait, what?
We can keep all the skills that we already have. Can we USE them, too, no matter our class?
So only the use of ITEMS are class specific, is that right?
And we are allowed to keep all the skills we have OR turn them ALL in? Or partial trading allowed, too? And what about the greed skill to claim convert option? Is that being able to do "alone"?
And the items we have now, we are allowed to trade in for gold/other items. Does that apply only to those we wouldn't be able to use because of the new classes, or ANY item?
Also, could you please refresh my memory and give the link to the "shop" where the prices to every item in gold coins is written down?
Apparently, Stumbles has a +1 Tile (Neutral) skill token. It is meant to be combined with other skills. So... could I combine it with Visions and then use the visions skill to get info about 2 squares, instead of one, in the future? Or combine it with jump and then jump 2 tiles (or one tile diagonally, if I remember the skill correctly), as if I had jump 2? Did I understand the combination of tokens right?
Or combine it with lure and the target will move faster towards me, then?
What about rescue, can I combine that with the +1 Tile (Neutral) skill token? Or the claim skill, so I could claim weapons from enemies from further away than melee range? Oh, the possibilities!
... WAIT.... Can any other tokens be combined?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:34 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
@Wears
WearsHats wrote:You're saying I could cash in all four current tokens and reroll them? I assume that would be all or nothing. I couldn't keep Call and trade in the other two. Might still be worth it.
Yep, all or nothing.
@gc
gamecreator wrote:I see. But you also said that one item for 46 coins may be game-breaking and that items can only get one type of bonus. I don't want either of that, but I don't know enough to determine correct item value.
Fine, if you must have exact item value, be it 23 coins. Just roll something already, because this is getting ridiculous
. I want to see items!
Actually, 46 golds are not that game breaking, Just rolled some, but I still think it's better to buy more items instead. Giving one example then some 23 coin rolls.
► Show Spoiler
Cost:
46 coins
► Show Spoiler
Passive: 20% chance of resisting mind based attacks
Increases a Detect Traps skill token's level by 4. (Or grants a level 4 skill if the player does not have it.)
Cost:
23 coins
Masks/ B. Paint
► Show Spoiler
Passive (1): +10% success chance in persuading NPCs
Passive (2): +1 coin at treasure finds
Grants +2 level to leaping related skills in the active slots. (Example: Jump, Rebound, Air Strike)
► Show Spoiler
Passive (1): Decreases all skill cooldowns by 1 turn.
Increases a Weaponize skill token's level by 2. (Or grants a level 2 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Increases a Dodge skill token's level by 3. (Or grants a level 3 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Increases a Run skill token's level by 2. (Or grants a level 2 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Can hold skill tokens up to level 2 together. Tokens must be declared at the start of the game and cannot be changed on the same map.
► Show Spoiler
Increases the player's base HP by 2.
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Grants a level 3 Jump skill token.
► Show Spoiler
Passive: Increases % based skill success chance by 20%.
Increases Dodge skill tokens level by 2. (Or grants a level 2 skill if the player does not have it.)
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Passive: Increases whatever this item gives bonus to by 1 level. See the (+1) below!
Increases a Detect Traps skill token's level by 3(2+1). (Or grants a level 3(2+1) skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
+2 to armor
+20% to deflect melee physical attacks.
► Show Spoiler
Passive: +5% chance to find an extra common item at treasure finds.
Increases a Lure skill token's level by 2. (Or grants a level 2 skill if the player does not have it.)
► Show Spoiler
Increases a Detect Traps skill token's level by 1. (Or grants a level 1 skill if the player does not have it.)
Increases a Disarm Traps skill token's level by 3. (Or grants a level 3 skill if the player does not have it.)
: Spelunker only. Reveals 1 mechanical trap at 1 movement range, then it goes on a 5 turn cooldown. Grants 1 XP for every revealed trap, but does not disable said traps. Possible upgrades on level up: more traps, bigger range, shorter cooldown.
Weaponize (Spelunker): Allows [util] type equipment to be used as weapons, which deal [item level bonus + this skill level] physical damage. Warriors can pick up [util] type items with this skill, but they can use them ONLY as weapons.
Disarm Traps(Spelunker, agility): Spelunker only. Requires [tool](like [lock picks]) or pointy stick. The player can disarm 1 easy revealed trap in movement distance, and gains equal XP of trap difficulty. Traps that are harder get +20% fail chance per difficulty level difference.
Possible upgrades: remove the item neccessity, increase simultaneously disarmable trap count, increase solveable trap difficulty.
Dodge (Neutral, Survival): Gives 17% (or 1/6) chance to dodge an incoming physical attack, be it melee or ranged. Possible upgrades: better % chances, dodge other attack types (1 new type / level: traps, ambush first strikes, non-mind spells, 1 mine explosion / level).
Spoilered for brevity.
► Show Spoiler
GathersIngredients wrote:
Okay wait, what?
We can keep all the skills that we already have. Can we USE them, too, no matter our class?
You can use every token that does not start with
"Some class/trait only." or does not require an item you cannot wield. (It will start with "Requires a sword.", for example.)
GathersIngredients wrote:
And we are allowed to keep all the skills we have OR turn them ALL in? Or partial trading allowed, too?
All or nothing. Go big or go home.
GathersIngredients wrote:
And what about the greed skill to claim convert option? Is that being able to do "alone"?
It is a unique trade option since the skill got indirectly nerfed, as I removed the item loss/scatter on mine death.
GathersIngredients wrote:
And the items we have now, we are allowed to trade in for gold/other items. Does that apply only to those we wouldn't be able to use because of the new classes, or ANY item?
I trade in the ones you cannot use automatically, unless you want to give them to someone who can.
You can trade in all the "basic shop items" you have, i.e. that can be found in the shop list.
GathersIngredients wrote:
Also, could you please refresh my memory and give the link to the "shop" where the prices to every item in gold coins is written down?
The old one is
here, but that thread needs a major overhaul. I don't know when I'll get to it.
GathersIngredients wrote:
Apparently, Stumbles has a +1 Tile (Neutral) skill token. It is meant to be combined with other skills. So... could I combine it with Visions and then use the visions skill to get info about 2 squares, instead of one, in the future? Or combine it with jump and then jump 2 tiles (or one tile diagonally, if I remember the skill correctly), as if I had jump 2? Did I understand the combination of tokens right?
Or combine it with lure and the target will move faster towards me, then?
What about rescue, can I combine that with the +1 Tile (Neutral) skill token? Or the claim skill, so I could claim weapons from enemies from further away than melee range? Oh, the possibilities!
You are onto something
GathersIngredients wrote:... WAIT.... Can any other tokens be combined?
Edited some item descriptions for clarity.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:54 pm
by gamecreator
I don't quite understand what hollow earrings do. Do they provide additional skill slots?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:05 am
by GathersIngredients
► Show Spoiler
Stumbles things (13 / 13 flags, jacket (3 coins), sword (6 coins), 10ft pole (6 coins), pink flower wreath (???), 9 coins, frying pan (3 coins), pointy stick (2 coins)), he can't use the sword and the 10 ft pole. (That's 12 coins only for the things he can't use.)
Stumbles' skills: Jump, evil(greed), Resist, evil(lure), Visions, Rescue, +1 Tile (Neutral)
Oookay. So I looked up the values of the items in Stumbles' inventory in the shop link you gave me. If he sold everything he had (except the extra flags), he'd have 29 coins. If he only sells the stuff he can't use, he'd have 21 coins..
What about the wreath, can he sell that (before it disappears in the next round, anyways)? If so, what's it worth?
What about the skill tokens, can those be sold for coins? Or even more interesting: BOUGHT for coins?
Also, since NONE of your skill descriptions so far (in this post
here at least) says "Some class/trait only." or "Requires X", could you please enlighten me on the skill tokens that Stumbles has, whether or not a heroic caster can use them? Because I have a hard time trying to decide on complete re-roll or not, until I know how many of my skills I'd actually be able to use.
Can we get a magical sword that is suited for non-warriors? Like with built in warrior skill (weapon-proficiency) enchantment?
What would that cost?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:41 am
by gamecreator
GathersIngredients wrote:
What about the skill tokens, can those be sold for coins? Or even more interesting: BOUGHT for coins?
If nothing changed, we are yet to unlock this. But this doesn't mean we can't trade among ourselves. You have my attention. What skills can you offer?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:46 pm
by GathersIngredients
Can't answer you that until I know which of the skill Stumbles currently possess would actually be usable by him.
Do you wish to sell any skills?
Also, my bad, for some reason I thought that the "pebble teleportation something" was a skill, not an item, hence that selling skills was already being done.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:20 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
@gc:
the hollow earrings work kinda like active slots. It says: "Can hold skill tokens up to level 2 together", so you could either put in a lvl 2 token, or two lvl 1 tokens, no enchanting or anything special required.
@gathers:
- none of your current skills have class / trait requirement.
- you cannot sell / buy skill tokens yet, that has to be unlocked on a later map.
- Swords, even magical ones count as [weapons] and thus won't be available for mundane casters. HOWEVER, at level five there will be this "Focus" thing I hinted about earlier. One of the focusable direction will be "battle mage", which basically will allow a caster to wield weapons and related skills.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:19 pm
by gamecreator
What would happen if I had two Jump tokens? Would I be able to jump two times in a turn? Also I always forget: does Jump allows you to jump only over
level tiles or over any amount of tiles up to
level?
GathersIngredients wrote:Do you wish to sell any skills?
Not really, though I might sell Call.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:47 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
gamecreator wrote:What would happen if I had two Jump tokens? Would I be able to jump two times in a turn?
That is a thing one should try out to know the answer.
It might not be that simple, though.
gamecreator wrote:Also I always forget: does Jump allows you to jump only over level tiles or over any amount of tiles up to level?
Any up to level.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:51 am
by gamecreator
Hmmm... I can use Visions, right? What is considered a map item, how many are there usually? And what about +2 to leaping skills: if I had two Jumps, would both get +2 (though I suspect this is another thing to try out)?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:10 am
by LooksAndSmiles
@gathers (sorry I forgot to answer this)
The flower wreath is a quest item, it will disappear to move the story ahead.
@gc:
- Yes, you can use visions.
- Map items come in two flavors: lying around the map, like pile of bones on the last map, or burrowed under the earth, as treasures. I guess [treasure] would have been a better term to use at the item descriptions, will see to it. I generally only put 0-2 treasure per map.
- Items that generally give bonus to other skills (and do not provide a skill on their own) give the bonus to every instance of the active tokens, but do NOT give bonus to item sourced tokens. So, if you have 2 jump tokens in your active slots, then both of them receive the bonus. If you have a jump token, and have a second jump from an item, then only the active token gets the bonus, regardless that you have two jump tokens, technically. Also, if you happen to have a token in your backpack, or slotted into an equipment, or utilized in any other way not in the active slots, that is also an unaffected token. This is to make my life easier.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:46 am
by gamecreator
Interesting... I'm very tempted to buy this battle paint just for the skill bonus, its other bonuses don't look very useful to me. But first I want to see what Gathers says about buying Call.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:44 pm
by WearsHats
I have no idea what I'm doing. Hard to think. So, what the heck. Let's reroll my tokens and see what happens.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:56 pm
by GathersIngredients
What did call do again? Some other player (on the map) had to ask for assistance and then you can appear on a square next to them. Right? A discovered square or an unknown square, or either?
@ L&S could anyone buy the stuff you rolled for GC? LIke the Goat Cowl +2 or the lucky gloves of rude gestures +2 for Stumbles? (If he had enough money, that is.)
I'm pretty sure I'd like to make the trade: greed for claim.
I can imagine parting with the resist skill. Anyone interested in that?
@ gc, what price do you call for the call token?
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:15 pm
by WearsHats
Yes, someone calls for you, and you teleport to their location as a free action. Level one lets you appear only on a known tile. Level two lets you appear on any adjacent tile.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:26 pm
by gamecreator
Pretty powerful movement skill on heavily trapped maps, and it gives you XP indirectly. I'm not sure about its value myself, but I think... 10 coins? I just want to buy three items
.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:27 pm
by LooksAndSmiles
WearsHats wrote:I have no idea what I'm doing. Hard to think. So, what the heck. Let's reroll my tokens and see what happens.
Rerolls for 1st level up:
Run (class roll), Punish (trait roll), Warning, Dodge
Rerolls for 2nd level up:
Disarm (class roll), Rescue (trait roll), Greed, +1 Tile (Neutral)
You can take 2 skills from each batch. I assume you still stick to Heroic Spelunker, right?
@Gathers:
-Yes, but GC has first claim. It makes my life easier (less rolling). Also, if you guys feel generous, you could add up your money to buy an item, and will sort out who owns what to whom later.
-Yes, Call works like that (as Wears said). Level 3 makes you be able to join anywhere within 2 movement distance from the caller.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:43 pm
by GathersIngredients
gamecreator wrote:10 coins? I just want to buy three items
.
no dice, I can't afford that. (I want to buy an item myself.
)
gamecreator wrote:Pretty powerful movement skill on heavily trapped maps, and it gives you XP indirectly.
also... a) we don't know how "heavily trapped" the map will be, and b) if I understood Wears & L&S correctly the "gives XP indirectly" will NOT work with the basic version you are offering.
Re: Goblins Minesweepers - Character Recreation
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:50 pm
by gamecreator
Or I can exchange this skill for some other (I would very much like second visions), of course I would add some money if your skill happens to be better. Or I can lend you money
.