August 1, 2015: Can you even Axe?

[Aegis J Hyena]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/08012015/

I wonder if Thaco saw the "attack" coming while blindfolded. Heh.

[RocketScientist]

"Nooo!" Poor Thaco.

[Just Karen]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/08012015/

I wonder if Thaco saw the "attack" coming while blindfolded. Heh.

I burst out laughing. I can totally see myself doing something like that in a game. (As GM, not a player. "OK, you escaped the bonds and land with the blade in your neck.")

[gamecreator]

I'm pretty sure this update is not for the 8th of January.

[SGTdude]

THunt "Oh right guys. I forgot to mention the axe phasing thing only works if BE concentrates. He totally just killed himself." Call me sick, but that would have been depressingly wonderful if that had happened. The sudden voices of all fankind going "NOO! WHY!!!"

But now that he is on the ground? Yeah, those things are getting F'd up.

[Krulle]

Why does BIg Ears use "Names", and not "Complains"? Is Minmax' influence so strong?

Otherwise : Fore!

[RocketScientist]

I'm pretty sure this update is not for the 8th of January.

fixed

[Changes_everything]

Now I really, really, really want to see them try to explain to Minmax how the Axe of Prissan works.

[SpeaksManyLanguages]

I wonder if Thaco saw the "attack" coming while blindfolded. Heh.

In the livestream Thunt said that Thaco would see the axe if he would happen to look up. He didn't look up.

THunt "Oh right guys. I forgot to mention the axe phasing thing only works if BE concentrates.

I'm pretty sure the opposite is true: the axe is solid for paladins only when they concentrate (maybe with the exception of holding it by the handle). Otherwise the Kore-suprise wouldn't have worked.

Why does BIg Ears use "Names", and not "Complains"? Is Minmax' influence so strong?

I think, it's a mistake. Did Tarol reply about it in the stream? I joined when the question was already in the chat log and decided against asking for the second time.

[LAYF]

Now I really, really, really want to see them try to explain to Minmax how the Axe of Prissan works.

Uuuuh... +1 for this one.. I really want to see them try.

[Krulle]

Why does BIg Ears use "Names", and not "Complains"? Is Minmax' influence so strong?

I think, it's a mistake. Did Tarol reply about it in the stream? I joined when the question was already in the chat log and decided against asking for the second time.

The stream did not work for me. I could ask questions in the chat, and read the chat. But the stream did not load for me... So I went to bed. 't was time for that anyway.

And he did not reply on Twitter yet....

THunt "Oh right guys. I forgot to mention the axe phasing thing only works if BE concentrates.

I'm pretty sure the opposite is true: the axe is solid for paladins only when they concentrate (maybe with the exception of holding it by the handle). Otherwise the Kore-suprise wouldn't have worked.

And the first time BE touched the Axe (or got touched by the Axe), he did not know about this ability, so couldn't have activated the "passthrough mode" yet.
BE's expression obviously states that BE expected to die at this precise moment.
The AoP sheet also clearly states, that the Axe of Prissan "would always pass harmlessly through any paladin like a ghost drifting through a castle wall. There was only one way for the axe to be solid for a paladin and that were if he wished it so.". So, the axe must be willed to be solid for yourself. If not actively willed to be solid against yourself, the axe will pass through you.
(I would be impressed by BE's ability to concentrate if that was necessary, and after that fall. I'd loose any form of concentration...)


The transcription:

► Show Spoiler

Complains of Names: We have to get down there and help him! Can't you cut through the ropes with your axe, Ears?
Big Ears: No Complains, my arms are tied up. Can't you cut your ropes with your +1 sword?
Complains of Names: I can't reach them! Look, your axe is bigger! Just try!
Big Ears: Well maybe if I twist my wrist back as far as I can...

Big Ears: Crap!
Big Ears: Heads up!
SFX: Shchinng

Big Ears: Oh Gods! I am so sorry Thaco! Are you okay?!
Thaco: Watch what you're doing, ya big, dumb paladin! You almost cut me in half!

Big Ears: Hey, I have an idea. Maybe if I turn off my armour, I can slip out...

SFX: ffffffffffffff

Big Ears: Wah!

SFX: Thwomp
Thaco: Big Ears! Nooo!

Big Ears: Ouch.
Thaco: Oh, right. I forgot.

unshaded image

Also: convenient break in the fight.... Do the constructs need to draw new numbers right now, now that the fight has changed from a x.vs.1 to a x.vs.2?

[SGTdude]

NU UH!!

Joke missed. I said:
Call me sick, but that would have been depressingly wonderful if that had happened.

After the way everyone went bonkers at the death of chief (including me), I found myslf laughing at the possibility that Big Ears would die effectively from stupidity.

But it didnt. And Big Ears will likely never die (for specculative reasons I will not share openly). So everyone can relax and be happy.


Thanks

[Xavier78]

If the Axe can cut through stone so easily, how are they ever stuck inside somewhere (like this dungeon)?

[Zathyr]

They're not stuck inside the dungeon. They're trying to get through it to the other end, and they're doing that. Trying to cut a straight path through, leaving giant holes in the walls as they go, is probably the worst thing they can do with Kore coming after them.

[RocketScientist]

If the Axe can cut through stone so easily

Wait, what stone did it cut through easily? Did I miss something?

[LAYF]

I think he means the floor it is stuck in....

But even with that, I think it would be really hard and tiresome work to cut through a dungeon....

Any Axe could do to wood what the AOP did to the stone floor. But I bet you would not be able to chop your way through a wooden maze faster than you could walk it.....
So I don't think it really applies unless you know that the exit is just through the next wall or some such....

[Morgaln]

And the first time BE touched the Axe (or got touched by the Axe), he did not know about this ability, so couldn't have activated the "passthrough mode" yet.
BE's expression obviously states that BE expected to die at this precise moment.
The AoP sheet also clearly states, that the Axe of Prissan "would always pass harmlessly through any paladin like a ghost drifting through a castle wall. There was only one way for the axe to be solid for a paladin and that were if he wished it so.". So, the axe must be willed to be solid for yourself. If not actively willed to be solid against yourself, the axe will pass through you.
(I would be impressed by BE's ability to concentrate if that was necessary, and after that fall. I'd loose any form of concentration...)

Technically, that means he has to be concentrating on the axe being solid all the time, or he wouldn't be able to carry it. It would fall from his hand the moment he stopped concentrating.


I think there's a lot wrong with that page. Big Ears was lying horizontally; after he got rid of the armor, he should have dropped right into the loops of rope that held him, which then should have grabbed him again. Speaking of which, all we see are two loops of ropes that go under him around the neck and either his waist or his thighs. They don't lope around him, they just support him from below. What kept him from slipping out of those in the first place? Involuntarily, even, because hanging like that is a pretty precarious position where even small movements can unbalance you easily, especially if you're burdened by heavy armor.

[Krulle]

I think it's a subconscious thing.
If the paladin expects that the handle can be gripped, as you normally can, then that Axe-part is solid.
If damage WOULD happen, the Axe is pass-through. Same with carrying. He expects it'll hold, and it holds....
Although in the fight with Saral Caine, the Axe is both. BE still holds the Axe at the handle firmly with his hands, while the Axe and the upper part ofmthe handle passed through him....(lowest row)

Edit: about forty minutes ago (+-30minutes after I created this post) he tweeted that he'll correct the Names/Complains thingy with the shading...(1, 2)

[RocketScientist]

I think he means the floor it is stuck in....

Ahh. OK. I get it now. I forgot it was stuck so far into the floor.

Edit: about forty minutes ago (+-30minutes after I created this post) he tweeted that he'll correct the Names/Complains thingy with the shading...(1, 2)

Yay!

[Krulle]

Full shaded page (with correction) is up:
http://www.goblinscomic.com/08032015/

[SpeaksManyLanguages]

On the question of "axe stuck in the floor" i would like to remind everyone how the floor in this room looks like
It's a fair assumption that the axe is stuck between the slabs. It's a creative freedom not to draw the details all the time, though.

Same goes with the ropes holding Big Ears. Of course, there were more of them, holding him in a convoluted way, but for the ease of presentation and readability only few were drawn on that frame. If you've hung around on his recent livestream, he was very grumpy about drawing even these ropes, not to mention doing many more.

[Morgaln]

On the question of "axe stuck in the floor" i would like to remind everyone how the floor in this room looks like
It's a fair assumption that the axe is stuck between the slabs. It's a creative freedom not to draw the details all the time, though.

Same goes with the ropes holding Big Ears. Of course, there were more of them, holding him in a convoluted way, but for the ease of presentation and readability only few were drawn on that frame. If you've hung around on his recent livestream, he was very grumpy about drawing even these ropes, not to mention doing many more.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but that is just lazy. A comic is a very visual medium. It's the embodiment of "show, don't tell". Those images aren't just there to look pretty or lighten things up with some color, they are supposed to tell a large part of the story. Comics get away with low amounts of text containing few adjectives, because the pictures are dong the descriptive part of the story. If the images don't support your story, though, that doesn't work in the same way it wouldn't work in a movie if it showed you just one or two ropes around Big Ears and expected you to believe he's wrapped tightly.
In addition to that, all pictures containing Big Ears show the same ropes in the same position; the visuals are consistent and yet I am supposed to assume there are more ropes. It's the equivalent of drawing Batman without his mask and then telling us that we need to assume he was wearing the mask all along. To put it harshly, the pictures are lying. That means the images are at best useless to understand the story, and may even be actively misleading. This also applies to what was brought up in another thread, that the time of day cannot be told from the images. This is a serious problem for a comic.

[SpeaksManyLanguages]

Are they misleading though? Did it not convey how Big Ears was tied up and how he slipped through the loops once his armor disappeared?

That is a question every reader can answer differently, though. I'm sure my view of it is different from yours, but while I agree that there are cases, where Thunt should've done some things differenly (and a lot of them), the general principle still stands. I had some grudge that time, when we were shown Kore's shield techniques, because they didn't make sense engineerically/mechanically (and still don't), but whatever. It's not a cornerstone of the comic.

[Morgaln]

But that's the thing, as I said before it didn't make sense that he would slip through the loops. If there are more ropes holding him than shown, it makes even less sense. It would work if he was held vertically like Fumbles, but not in a horizontal position. Of course it's not a cornerstone of the comic but it is one of many small incongruities that get more and more noticeable the longer the comic runs.
Oh, and don't get me ranting about how impossible Kore's whole shield setup is (it doesn't work at all), because it wouldn't be pretty...

[SGTdude]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but that is just lazy. A comic is a very visual medium. It's the embodiment of "show, don't tell".
......
This also applies to what was brought up in another thread, that the time of day cannot be told from the images.comic.

I have to respond here, basically because I am one of the most qualified individuals to do so.

First, no. That last statement is not what was said. I happen to know because you are in fact misquoting me and I heard the information from THunt firsthand. Most of the time of day can be reasonably guessed at from the events depicted in the comic. And those guesses are drawn directly from what was shared (whether images or words). It can not be known precisely because time, while helpful, is a minimal focus of this comic making that last statement an unfair criticism (and just not true). But if that kind of accuracy is what you want from your fiction go watch 24 (and even that show plays a little loose with time). Which leads me to point 2.

Second, the thing is the thing, and in Goblins the thing is essentially "yay the goblins win." We are all waiting to see that happen, and are very interested in how that happens. But we must reasonably allow for slight deviations (we could even say mistakes) on the path of making progress towards seeing that end reached. To demand otherwise is...well...intellectually dishonest.

But to show that I'm stating a fact and not just being rude, please take this challenge and prove me wrong:

Name a single work of fiction told in a visual medium that is generally regarded as successful and is completely without any sort of continuity errors or mistake.


Tl;dr - be a fan, not a fanatic.