The Sundered Way - OOC

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:18 pm

To be fair. Zephyr was ensuring that the Vrock was dead. And she was also almost dead.
And I didn't keep anything I found.

But, since you brought it up Lets talk about everything that Zephyr has taken. (I think it's easy to pick on me because I'm also the loudest..)
A cloak that lets you swim and breathe underwater = Usefulness thus far = situational.
A scabbard that, after having just asked about it, no one else even wants, except maybe Dornikal who just joined our party.
A scimitar that she can throw at people.
A spear that she gave away in the middle of combat so that some prisoners could fight with.


I have taken nothing from this current fight...nothing. Except a climbers kit. All zephyr did was strip all of the bodies and bunch all of the loot together. The amulet/pendent that I did have, I just gave to Tess.

ZEPHYR HAS TAKEN NOTHING FROM THIS FIGHT <-- not yelling...
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:30 pm

You also had the spear, which you've only agreed to give up because it wasn't any use to you any more.

Anyway, my point isn't what everyone has per se (we're all different classes anyway, and the items we do have are certainly NOT equivalent in terms of power), just that if one or two people make a point of getting first choice of the loot without discussion with the rest of the party then it starts to feel unfair.

I just don't want to be forced to play Finder's Keepers for an entire campaign is all.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:33 pm

Also, just to make certain we all understand this.

Let's have a play by play of what happened in the mummys tomb.

Zephyr moves over towards the door as Holger abandons the party to explore the tunnel. It seems to be opening out into a room ahead...

...within the room, what immediately catches his eye are two softly glowing circular sigils carved on the top of two stone altars in the far corner. Above the glowing sigils float a very real looking spear, and a very real looking curved blade, apparently the basis for the spectral blades that the party fought previously.

Zephyr rushes to Randy's side and tries to help him stabilize.

Holger warily opens one chest, getting ready to close it right away should he see anything that could resemble a trap. If anything needs manipulation, he'll attempt to do it with a mage hand instead.

Inside is a small dark wooden box, a flat case, and what looks like a cloth bag.

Further check if they seem connected to anything before slowly removing each item, one at a time if they appear save to remove. repeat with the second chest.

Holger will put the ring in his own box for now and open the other chest.

"Come Randy, let us not let the others have all of the fun at your expense." Zephyr stoops and helps randy to his feet and practically carries him into the next room and eases him onto the floor where he can easily watch.

As she enters the room, the spear and sword are what immediately catch her eyes and she walks towards them, transfixed by their glowing beauty and wickedly dangerous lines.
She finds herself dumbstruck by their radiance of death and capability of blood-letting. First she looks closely at the spear, but she finds her eyes drawn to the sword. (Scimitar right?)

She's almost unaware of herself as she reaches out toward the hilt of the sword.

Zephyr's greed finally showing through, she reaches for the sword...
(Now, let me input a thought here....I think what tends to happen, is Spider likes to push Zephyr under a bus and make her sound greedy, which is easily noticed by everyone else...but isn't as bad as he makes it sound, basically slandering my good name. :P )

As Zephyr's hand passes through the plane above the glyphs, they go dark and the blade topples forward. In her entranced state, she doesn't withdraw her hand and it slices across her wrist.
(Got damaged for treasure...how dare I)

Her revere broken by the sword falling from its place jolts zephyr to reality. She curses in goblin for hurting herself and picks up the sword by the hilt from where it fell.

With a good deal more thought, noting the moment her hand had crossed some invisible threshold making the sword fall, Zephyr acts more quickly in reaching in toward the spear, making sure her aim is good and reaching for the shaft of the spear, intent on keeping it from hitting the ground.


And back in the ruins.. Zephyrs was the last one to that party.. And the only reason she found the cloak that she kept is because she insisted on cutting into the belly of the tree beast. I think that if a character puts in extra effort and finds a magical item as a reward for that extra effort. I don't know I guess in my opinion they should be able to keep it without it being complained about.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 pm

Yeah, I don't think comparing sharing gold but "items are first grab" is really a fair comparison- Mostly because, although do correct me if I'm wrong, you simply can't just buy most magic items... And it's also not really fair in general when there is just one or two persons looting the treasure hoard- Would they get to keep the treasure for themselves..?

On one hand I can understand the process of "dibs", though my personal preference in this kind of format is that everything should just be put on the same table, and it ends up distributed firstly as would best fit people, and secondly as equally as possible. (if X did not get a magic item last time we got loot, X gets to claim dibs)

With that said I didn't particularly care enough to make a comment until it got raised just now, because I mostly found it to still be done okay, and items always either eventually ended up being pooled together, or whoever found it shared the item if they thought it could be better used... The one gripe I might have had with Zeph from back at the mummy temple was that I really didn't think she should get two magic weapons when there's plenty with none, but whatevs- That's already been resolved.

I will say that I'm not nearly as "annoyed" at Zephyr OOC as I'm at Holger, because while Zephyr I can understand from a "It was there... Was I supposed to NOT take it..?" kind of perspective, and she shared as needed, Holger is actively trying to keep loot hidden and hoarded for himself. And I hope Spider will give us the eventual chance to find out about it and that we can grill him over it IC.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Rodgeir » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

I also appreciate that Zephyr shared, and I feel guilty that Dornikal was one of the first searching for stuff after the fight, even though it was in character as he was naked and looking for his gem (which Zephyr also gave him without any comment) and clothes.

That said it seems like we may need more discussion to avoid feelings of fast looting?

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 pm

Yeah, I think the Mummy Tomb has left a bit of a sour taste to be fair (from both Z and H). The plant-dungeon looting was fine.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Lurks_In_Shadows » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:39 pm

I think as much as anything, the fact that we went zip from one dungeon to another with zip down time to speak of and no real chance to even discuss redistribution (Holger was busy setting undead snake people skeletons on us instead and generally being cagey about it. :P ) probably helped contribute. Randy did get the horn of silent summons to play with (mainly because it helped with scouting the orcs). The sword would have been nice just because of the fire and cold resistance, but it's not that great that I was going to get worked up about it if someone else thought they could better use it. Randy has a bow and doesn't need the spear. It may be that he'll need to either be more careful in his dungeoning so that he spends less time getting revived, or just be willing to save up for what he wants. I'm putting Holger's actions down to a possible cursed item still. Since we're still involved with the current campaign, I'm not going back and looking at those private conversations yet.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Theis2 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:33 pm

Totally agree that I was a total spoon with the mummy loot, but that will hopefully not reflect on future loot sessions with me being a jerk.

But I agree with badge that he, Burns and I have been the worst offenders of grabbing magic loot, the cursed ring being his 3rd item with beneficial effect. The staff is up for discussion, Holger would like to have it just to make him seem more magical when we get to town but isn't a dealbreaker if consensus is money.
My other ring and hat are however super situational and rarely in use and Holger wouldn't mind letting someone else have them.
Ring gives +5 movement speed when dodging and hat lets you cast blade ward once a day and lets you see future or past from those hitting you.
But I think 5e is excellent in forcing the player to share loot as we are all limited by attunement and some of us has hit the limit.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm

Sounds good to me at least. IMO, I think if we just agree to move forward in good faith, this loot thing will resolve itself fine. Hell, at least spider actually hands out loot to his players, unlike certain DMs in certain OTHER games <cough> Wandering Archipelago <cough> who give out almost nothing unless it's a plot item or mechanically useless.

...I really need to get Mehriv his diamond so he can use his spells...

Ok, on a completely different topic, I have spent far too long agonising over my new spell list. Since I'm still going to be pretty heavily restricted on spell slots and because spells don't trigger sneak attack damage, I'm basically ignoring aggressive spells and focusing on utility / Nem's background interests. Also, a lot of these are rituals, which she can now cast thanks to dipping wizard. Her full spell list will (probably) be:

CANTRIPS:
Mage Hand (AT)
Message (AT)
Minor Illusion (AT)
Light (W); Because a magical light source is always useful. Also Ily can deliver this spell at range because it's a touch spell.
Mending (W): Because stuff breaks, and sometimes they shouldn't stay broken.
Prestidigitation (W): Because trail rations should always taste good.
Thaumaturgy (T): Because tiefling eyes need to be disguised constantly I guess.

LEVEL 1 SPELLS
Charm Person (AT)
Disguise Self (AT)
Find Familiar (AT): Who doesn't love pets
Alarm (W): Because god damn it, we need a cart alarm.
Comprehend Languages (W): Because she's not going to be a linguist the old-fashioned way
Detect Magic (W): Seems useful Illusory Script: Seems expensive but fun :)
Feather Fall (W): Because stairs (and fall damage) are for losers
Shield (W): Because squishy
Tenser's Floating Disc (W): Because I have a feeling that this will just be useful sooner or later.

((Identify (Scroll): Nem will finally be able to copy this scroll into her book, which I think will help us out a decent amount!))

SOURCES: AT = Arcane Trickster / W = Wizard / T = Tiefling

I believe she can prepare 3 spells (INT mod + WIZ level) per day, but can cast unprepared rituals from her spellbook as needed (which includes everything except: Charm Person, Disguise Self, Feather Fall and Shield). Detect Magic is the only a concentration spell.

Ok, what do you guys think? Is there too much overlap between this list and anything anyone else has picked? The only thing really is that Nem has no way of doing magical damage should it become necessary, but hopefully that's something we'll figure out in the future.
Last edited by thinkslogically on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:05 pm

But... Going for an utility build is Ulmwin's thing! :P

Ulmwin does already have identify, but that wouldn't stop Tess- Means I could potentially even replace it down the line with something more useful.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:20 pm

I think he has detect magic too, right? The identify comes from a scroll we found in the plant dungeon so it's less a choice and more that we have it :)

Nem's mostly just interested in learning stuff abd not using spell slots to do it, so this seemed like a good set. Saying that, illusory script was also very tempting, so if you think there's too much overlap I'm happy to swap DM for that ((or anything else that's too close to Ulmwin's build)).

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:29 pm

Now wait a minute holger... At no point did I accept any blame for "going for the loot first"
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:32 pm

thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
unlike certain DMs in certain OTHER games
No comment!
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
Light (W); Because a magical light source is always useful. Also Ily can deliver this spell at range because it's a touch spell.
He can also then carry it around for you, like the magic pebble Hurm ate.
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
Thaumaturgy (T): Because tiefling eyes need to be disguised constantly I guess.
Wait... you're a tiefling?!
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
((Identify (Scroll): Nem will finally be able to copy this scroll into her book, which I think will help us out a decent amount!))
You won't be reliant on that bard any more!
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
I believe she can prepare 3 spells (INT mod + WIZ level) per day, but can cast unprepared rituals from her spellbook as needed
You can prepare 3 spells you learn as a wizard this way, your AT spells are always at hand.
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm
The only thing really is that Nem has no way of doing magical damage should it become necessary, but hopefully that's something we'll figure out in the future.
With only a +4 modifier, any attack spells are likely to be less damaging than your ranged weapon attack. That's also still only a +4, but if you use the means you have to get advantage, you can be doing sneak attack on that too. I suppose for things that are resistant to piercing or non-magical damage, it would be a benefit, but if you're wanting something you can use repeatedly, that likely means cantrip. Wizard has access to decent ones, but it would mean not taking on of your others.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by NotStickFigures » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:39 pm

Coljin can also pick detect magic as a daily spell and then cast it as ritual. He just hasn’t yet.
And while in the mine. He’s making some continual lights. Who wants one. Three available and what do you want them cast on? I think Holger expressed interest

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:44 pm

3 NEW spells... Ok, that's awesome and definitely something I'll constantly forget :lol: I'll go and write it in my sheet :)

Thanks for the input! This is basically the only wizard level I'm planning on taking, so I'm not expecting to get many more slots. Also, Nem may or may not just pack up and retire when she gets Leomund's Tiny Hut at level 9 AT :D

EDIT: Ok, if we have Detect Magic through other means, I'll take Illusory Script instead then. Don't expect any letters though, the ink's forking expensive!

EDIT 2: Shield, Feather Fall and Comprehend Languages will be my default prepared Wizard spells in case I ever forget to say. I think everything else can probably wait +10 minutes in most circumstances.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:49 pm

What does illusory script do again? Would it have any advantages over the horn we found?

Not that I'm dissuading you from picking it, just figuring that if you're going for "uncovered utility" first that might be worth considering :P

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:55 pm

Also forgot to mention you get Arcane Recovery, which allows you to recover half of your wizard level rounded up in spell slots once per day after a short rest (so 1 spell slot of 1st level).

Totally fine if this is your only wizard level, but there might be some interesting Arcane Traditions that give you something cool at 2nd level.

Illusory script lets you write a message that can only be seen by the intended recipient. It does cost 10 gp in special inks per use.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 pm

It lasts 10 days, is incomprehensible / appears like a totally different message to anyone except the intended recipient (except for truesight folk) and it is a touch spell so Ily can deliver it at range. The latter aspect is what makes it a bit more flexible. The horn is free though, so if we're not stuck in terrible circumstances, we could use that first :)

I forget what the horn does now, but i think it's similar.

The other alternative of course, is Unseen servant, but i think i can do everything it can do by other means already, and it can't cook.

Yes, Arcane tradition is pretty cool, but I'm not sure it's cool enough. I definitely want the rogue ASI for level 5 to round up my INT and DEX, then Uncanny Dodge is going to be hard to justify delaying :) Rogues get pretty cool in the lower mid-ranges!

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:33 pm

I have a question, since you only want one lv in wizard, why not get ritual caster or magic adept?

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:37 pm

thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 pm
touch spell so Ily can deliver it at range.
Ily doesn't get you around the "You write on Parchment, paper, or some other suitable writing material and imbue it with a potent Illusion that lasts for the Duration."

There are some things with a range of "touch" that your familiar isn't going to be able to help with, Identify being the other that comes to mind. Probably anything with a casting time of longer than 1 action?

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Right, but since Ily's magical anyway, and the message itself is an illusion couldn't the message be written by Nem (with pen and ink) and delivered by Ily (onto an appropriate piece of parchment?), like via magical ink vomit (or claws / beak)?

By RAW, Familiars can deliver any spell with the "Touch" range, and I couldn't see any other official clarifications that change that, so it's your call, but I'd like to know because it's a fairly major change to how FF works.

Similarly, for Identify, why couldn't it work for Ily to hold an item (e.g. in a different room, or through bars), and have Nem cast the spell? He's just a metaphysical extension of her, no? :P LIke, he doesn't have a duration or require concentration, and it's a pretty explicit part of the FF description.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:50 am

Gonna look at what spells I'll be taking soonish, but first, regarding magic items- Mostly because I want to hear if you guys are interested about a couple of these things :P

So, if I take the horn (Given it's caveat that makes it more usable to a bard), I'll be at three attuned magic items. Still within the limit, but Ulmwin would share given that. The most important thing to share would probably that elven rapier that grants temporary HP- It's effect is too useful and Ulmwin hasn't nearly made enough use of it to warrant not giving it to someone else, assuming someone else could make better use of it. If not, he'd be willing to share his ring of heroism + feather fall to anyone that might be interested.

Assuming no one has the actual proficiency to make proper use of the rapier, Ulmwin can keep it - And he might be able to make better use of it in the future, now that he's getting vicious mockery and will be able to keep it equipped as his main weapon while still having ranged potential.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:35 am

thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm
By RAW, Familiars can deliver any spell with the "Touch" range, and I couldn't see any other official clarifications that change that, so it's your call, but I'd like to know because it's a fairly major change to how FF works.
"Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it."

So from that, you are doing the casting, the familiar is the deliverer.

Illusory Script: "You write on Parchment, paper, or some other suitable writing material and imbue it with a potent Illusion that lasts for the Duration."

You doing the writing is part of the casting, during which you're imbuing the paper with the magic, there is no spell to be delivered.
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm
Similarly, for Identify, why couldn't it work for Ily to hold an item (e.g. in a different room, or through bars), and have Nem cast the spell?
Identify: "You choose one object that you must touch throughout the casting of the spell."

Again, you must touch the object during the casting in order to learn about it, it's almost more an aspect of the somatic component, by the time you complete casting, there is nothing to deliver.
thinkslogically wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm
He's just a metaphysical extension of her, no? :P LIke, he doesn't have a duration or require concentration, and it's a pretty explicit part of the FF description.
"You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, Lizard, Octopus, owl, Poisonous Snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, Sea Horse, Spider, or Weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the familiar has the Statistics of the chosen form, though it is a Celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast.

Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands. In Combat, it rolls its own initiative and acts on its own turn."

He's his own being, you've just bound him to your service.

I'll keep thinking/looking for precedent, but those are my thoughts on how it would work... or not work. Fun side fact... Ily can attune to magic items...

M0rtimer wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:50 am
Assuming no one has the actual proficiency to make proper use of the rapier,
Coljin and Holger are the only two without proficiency to use it.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:38 am

Yeah, so if any of our more melee-oriented fighters want it- You'll probably find it more useful.

Ulmwin would need a replacement weapon, but it wouldn't have to be anything fancy as long as he eventually gets dibs on the first magic crossbow we find.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:19 am

That's a pretty big change to the way FF works as written IMO. If Ily can deliver the spell as if he cast it, it seems like the intent is just to allow FF to offset a touch spell effect by up to 100 feet.

When I say he's linked to Nem, I mean magically. He's a separate entity, but not an independent one, since he can be popped into and out of existence at her command, wherever he is. So he's not a normal ferret anyway, even if he wasn't fey. He's like a spell effect channelling other spell effects.

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