05 November 2018: Whew

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:15 am

AXIS wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:49 am
Odd decision to crawl into a hole instead of continuing to run.

She's lucky did didn't die right then and there crawling into hole, no way that was faster than scrambling further away.
Idle doesn't have infinite energy, a hiding spot would be a good place to rest if you don't let yourself get stabbed.

Krulle, if the creature you obsessively want dead is within enough grasp to throw, it's already primed for stabbing and there's no sense in letting it make itself more difficult to stab.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:12 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:15 am
Idle doesn't have infinite energy, a hiding spot would be a good place to rest if you don't let yourself get stabbed.
Not infinite energy? She has run like 20 meters or something. She must have the lowest energy ever charted if that is the case.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:50 pm

Oh good, I have the energy to keep running for 5 hours! That'll be so helpful until 5 hours from now and the damn thing is still chasing me.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:23 am

Well, it beats coming to a dead halt to crawl into a passage you have no idea of where it is going. Against a thing that kinda does shape shifting as it's schtick. I agree with Axis on this one. I am surprised she was not gored then and there.

Has Thunt used a reference photo for the first fram of her jumping? The legs, the musculature and everything is really nice. When she starts to crawl her leg is mounted at the front of her pelvis and the thigh is way to short though.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Krulle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 am

Okay, I've just re-looked at the sequence of panels, and I think we may have interpreted them incomplete.

I think Idle wanted to flee towards the end of the hole. She saw light, so she thought she can get out of there at the end of the tunnel.
But when she arrived there, she found only a hole, and not something that allows her to crawl out.
But psychologically, still, a hole means air, and at least a small sliver of the outside world, good against claustrophobia.
And she notices not having been followed, and therefore likely being safe.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Wolfie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:29 am

I do agree with Legos here. She crawled into a hole in solid rock that is barely large enough to accommodate her own small-ish size. She's probably thinking that this really large, obviously damaged creature might leave her alone for a moment so she can gather her senses.

She didn't account for its mindless need to kill that which hurt it so badly. Also, solid rock with a single tiny hole in it. Good spot check for Buzz. Bad luck for Idle.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by redfeather » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am

Generic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 am
Whatever. He might not have meant anything, but there is plenty of meaning there anyways.
You can find anything anywhere if you spend long enough looking hard enough. Eventually you start seeing things that aren't really there.

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm

redfeather wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
Generic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 am
Whatever. He might not have meant anything, but there is plenty of meaning there anyways.
You can find anything anywhere if you spend long enough looking hard enough. Eventually you start seeing things that aren't really there.
Hmm hmm. I thought I gave plenty examples and was quite specific. You want page numbers as well?
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:56 pm

Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:23 am
Well, it beats coming to a dead halt to crawl into a passage you have no idea of where it is going. Against a thing that kinda does shape shifting as it's schtick. I agree with Axis on this one. I am surprised she was not gored then and there.
While I concede it was a gamble to slow down for entering the hole, Senior and Junior are the only kliks we've actually seen shape-shift like a T-1000, which leads me to expect it's a trait shared only by metallic variants. Obviously, if Buzz could shape-shift, he'd have done so to enter the hole; but Idle has spent long enough around these creatures before meeting Forgath that she probably knows the difference and probably would have sacrificed herself to keep Forgath and the kliks safe from infection if they all did that. (Which I still suspect is demonic and not from nibbling on a magic weapon; just look how similar Buzz's tongue was to the green mud-pit monster!)
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:24 pm

Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm
redfeather wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
Generic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 am
Whatever. He might not have meant anything, but there is plenty of meaning there anyways.
You can find anything anywhere if you spend long enough looking hard enough. Eventually you start seeing things that aren't really there.
Hmm hmm. I thought I gave plenty examples and was quite specific. You want page numbers as well?
To suggest there's a theme of specifically women getting the slasher treatment disrespects all the times male characters suffer the same.

One of your examples of "woman dies horribly" (off-panel, no less) includes a reference to a male character who was torn in half ON-PANEL.
On that note, I'm surprised you didn't list Goth Kin vs. the spiked wall, who cares that she had men with her? When Psimax gave his Kin the Scanners treatment, he had already done the same to his Forgath. In fact, the entire Maze of Many was a free-for-all where no variants of the group included protected individuals.
Between the Recruiting Room Slaughter, Battle of Wonder, and Great Monster Escape; at least a few hundred evil guards were slain and we only saw so many dozens of them but they were ALL men.
When Biscuit goes golfing, neither gender is safe for the same reason the male-only hobgoblin horde was squashed by Vipers of both genders.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by redfeather » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:29 pm

Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm
Hmm hmm. I thought I gave plenty examples and was quite specific. You want page numbers as well?
No, I'm not questioning that Thunt created artwork which contains the things which you identified as "problematic" or "questionable" or whatever your point was. I'm only saying that you, and only you, decided that those events contained any sort of hidden meaning, or formed any sort of pattern among themselves, which is suggestive in any way of anything whatsoever. The fact that Tarol is generally on the lovey-dovey progressive Leftist side of the political spectrum, tremendously motivated to display exquisite sensitivity toward the concerns of women and other "marginalized" groups, is well-documented. All I see, when you point to these examples, is that nothing is ever going to be good enough because some people are just impossible to please.

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by TheDarkTyger » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:02 pm

So...if Idle is injured mortally after her "one per day"...but doesn't die from said injury until the following day....does that count for her death that day or would it be a second death the day before since that was when the wound that killed her was inflicted?

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 pm

I'm 99.99% sure that it would count as her once-per-day as long as she made it passed midnight. Gremlin rules, yo.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 am

redfeather wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:29 pm
Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm
Hmm hmm. I thought I gave plenty examples and was quite specific. You want page numbers as well?
No, I'm not questioning that Thunt created artwork which contains the things which you identified as "problematic" or "questionable" or whatever your point was. I'm only saying that you, and only you, decided that those events contained any sort of hidden meaning, or formed any sort of pattern among themselves, which is suggestive in any way of anything whatsoever. The fact that Tarol is generally on the lovey-dovey progressive Leftist side of the political spectrum, tremendously motivated to display exquisite sensitivity toward the concerns of women and other "marginalized" groups, is well-documented. All I see, when you point to these examples, is that nothing is ever going to be good enough because some people are just impossible to please.
You gonna have to point at the place where I called it problematic. That, or the leftish strawman and you can just duke it out without involving me.

What i was trying to say is that she is one of the characters who displayed most of her sexuality, despite what Thunt tweets about. Then I rambled about how the scantly clad women trope is quite well used and ended up in some kind of musing on how older women gets "put in their places". I don't need you to agree with me. I am not making any kind of case here.
Last edited by Generic on Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:55 am

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:24 pm
Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:50 pm
redfeather wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
You can find anything anywhere if you spend long enough looking hard enough. Eventually you start seeing things that aren't really there.
Hmm hmm. I thought I gave plenty examples and was quite specific. You want page numbers as well?
To suggest there's a theme of specifically women getting the slasher treatment disrespects all the times male characters suffer the same.

One of your examples of "woman dies horribly" (off-panel, no less) includes a reference to a male character who was torn in half ON-PANEL.
On that note, I'm surprised you didn't list Goth Kin vs. the spiked wall, who cares that she had men with her? When Psimax gave his Kin the Scanners treatment, he had already done the same to his Forgath. In fact, the entire Maze of Many was a free-for-all where no variants of the group included protected individuals.
Between the Recruiting Room Slaughter, Battle of Wonder, and Great Monster Escape; at least a few hundred evil guards were slain and we only saw so many dozens of them but they were ALL men.
When Biscuit goes golfing, neither gender is safe for the same reason the male-only hobgoblin horde was squashed by Vipers of both genders.
Slasher treatment? I talked about characters built on gaze appeal, and mentioned older women in power getting their faces melted off/wings ripped off by someone talking philosophy with them. Junior never said to whats-her-name "Hey, your ambitions suck, here, have this horrible injury".
I made it as a side note and should probably have made it clearer. I never once said that only women gets offed gruesomely in this comic. I probably should have paid more attention to what I wrote because a few people might have read it in a way I did not intend.

My point better laid out without my usual unfocused rambling whenever I write in english: No Twitter-Thunt. I think Idle is the one with the most explored sex-life in this comic so far, and I think you enjoy drawing scantly clad women, in regards to how often it has happened. Talking of women, what is your deal with having older female characters with ambition be mutilated while having a discussion about philosophy?
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:39 am

Generic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 am
Krulle wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:26 am
Thunt did comment on Idle's outfit on twitter: https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/statu ... 7271435264

So, the skimpy outfit is on purpose, but there's no sexuality meant to be involved.
Funny. I think she is one of the characters whoms sexuality has been the most developed so far. We know Mitten-Min-Max is cursed to have sex or die, but we get to know it from her, as well as her attitude towards it. The only other person we had talk about "sex" is as far as I recall The Goblinslayer. But that was for chock value.

We have a few talking about their preference, but not much about the act itself.

Thunt may have made her as a reaction towards the trope. But he explored that trope a few times already. Reverting it with Young and Beautiful, Doing a parady of it with the Drow, Saves a fox, tried and rejected it with Earthworm-Kin (and settled for sex-slave-Kin that breaks her own neck snuggingly in the maze of many), Honey-Mud-Babes, Falls-Over-Something-Stupid, and now latest with Floppy The Elfglin.

Interestingly he also does this thing with the mutilation of older women. Falls over something stupid is mutilated as well, but that is off camera. Kin got mutilated, but she was restored.

Whatever. He might not have meant anything, but there is plenty of meaning there anyways.
You definitely didn't say anything about Duv, and I'm not going to defend Biscuit's methodology anyway; if the accidental preview is anything to go by, his violent act was a poor choice that ruined the progress made by Saves' speech in the previous moment.

Y&B wasn't "having philosophy spoken to her", (nor did she have any particular ambition) she was in fact the one dishing it out and Forgath chose to ignore her pleas until later with Thaco. No shit you should pay more attention to what you write, you'll be less wrong that way.
Last edited by BuildsLegos on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Hjerne » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:30 am

Why did Idle go into the hole? It's incredibly obvious when you think about it. She's part rabbit. So while running away in a panic she did the thing any rabbit would do. She dove into a small hole to avoid the predator.

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:45 am

Generic wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 am
What I was trying to say is that she is one of the characters who displayed most of her sexuality, despite what Thunt tweets about. Then I rambled about how the scantly clad women trope is quite well used and ended up in some kind of musing on how older women gets "put in their places". I don't need you to agree with me. I am not making any kind of case here.
More accurately, you're not making a good case in the slightest. You're trying to establish a trend in Goblins of something specific happening multiple times when it has literally happened just once and her "older woman" status isn't nearly as relevant as the part where she's an obvious Nazi stand-in.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:40 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:45 am
Generic wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 am
What I was trying to say is that she is one of the characters who displayed most of her sexuality, despite what Thunt tweets about. Then I rambled about how the scantly clad women trope is quite well used and ended up in some kind of musing on how older women gets "put in their places". I don't need you to agree with me. I am not making any kind of case here.
More accurately, you're not making a good case in the slightest. You're trying to establish a trend in Goblins of something specific happening multiple times when it has literally happened just once and her "older woman" status isn't nearly as relevant as the part where she's an obvious Nazi stand-in.
You are free to disagree with me. But please don't tell me what I am trying to do. You can say what you think and try to do, I say what I think and try to do. Ok?
BuildsLegos wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:39 am
No shit you should pay more attention to what you write, you'll be less wrong that way.
Ouch.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:55 pm

I strongly suggest you hold yourself to the standard you hold me. You've already given up trying to lie now that I've explained that's what you're doing; this will go over a lot more smoothly if you don't pretend that isn't the case.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:31 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:55 pm
I strongly suggest you hold yourself to the standard you hold me. You've already given up trying to lie now that I've explained that's what you're doing; this will go over a lot more smoothly if you don't pretend that isn't the case.
What standard? The "Please don't put words in my mouth"-standard? Strongly suggest all you want. I think it sounds like a reasonable level to hold the discussion at.

Where did I lie? When I did not bother to say "Well, I think Young-And-Beautiful is an example, since she is a older woman who got mutilated after a discussion, while you say she is not an example"? Because I already told you I don't care. I am not making an argument. I am not trying to change your opinion in any matter regarding this. And going "yeah, she is", "no, she is not" is not making anyone of us any smarter.
Or was it something else?

I am all for a fight though if you want to strongly suggest things and say that things will not go smoothly for me. PM me in this case, because I think that would be off topic.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by BuildsLegos » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:22 pm

Generic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 am
Interestingly he also does this thing with the mutilation of older women. Falls over something stupid is mutilated as well, but that is off camera. Kin got mutilated, but she was restored.

Whatever. He might not have meant anything, but there is plenty of meaning there anyways.
I bold-ed the part where you claim Thunt "does this thing", which strictly implies a trend.
Generic wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:55 am
Slasher treatment? I talked about characters built on gaze appeal, and mentioned older women in power getting their faces melted off/wings ripped off by someone talking philosophy with them. Junior never said to whats-her-name "Hey, your ambitions suck, here, have this horrible injury".

...Talking of women, what is your deal with having older female characters with ambition be mutilated while having a discussion about philosophy?
You then incorrectly claim yourself to have included women "in power" and "have philosophy spoken to them by the assailant" as apart of the quota, when these examples you're so proud of giving very much don't fit with the quota you later applied, but instead imply a "slasher treatment". Even if both Y&B and Duv fit the bill, two examples does not a trend make, mainly because they were both maimed for reasons that have nothing to do at all with their gender.

That's so cute how you claim to not care, when the problem is you're committing libel against the artist that this forum is dedicated to. That you don't care is APART of the problem. And I'll keep every post about your dishonest self nice and very public for all to see, just as it should be.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Krulle » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:48 am

Sorry to interrupt.
Generic, if you don't care what others think about your rambling, then please don't post it here if it's just a train of thougt that even has been proven to be wrong.
It saves all of us a lot.

Thanks.

@BuildsLegos: you're wasting your time here. He does not want to be convinced, he stated so. I tend to ignore his posts as they're just rather senseless ramblings, amd your posts seem to be the same when answering him. I thus stopped reading the posts of both of you.
You're both not looking good here.

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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:43 am

Legos: Wait? Did I say I never made a claim? I made lots of claims! I put my thoughts on the subject out there. I am not interested in convincing you in believing in them though. There has been to many strawmen and "I strongly suggest" thrown about for me to think it's worth it. Did I put my neck to far out to be allowed to pull it back unscathed? Probably. Can you call me a coward for not wanting an argument? Sure. Whatever. I am a coward.

"You then incorrectly claim yourself to have included women "in power" and "have philosophy spoken to them by the assailant" as apart of the quota[Generics note: Yeah. Yeah I did, didn't I? Guess I lied there. It was not my intention, but I did. Look at that. I added more to my statement in the form of "I said" instead of "I meant to say". That was not good form of me. I apologize. Is this why you are calling me a liar?], when these examples you're so proud of giving very much don't fit with the quota you later applied, but instead imply a "slasher treatment"[Generics note: What? I am proud? Imply a slasher treatment? What? Is this something I lied about to?]"

Yes. I added more, since you asked me. The part about melting older women was a throwaway line at the end of another statement. You started talking about it. You expect me to give you a narrower definition as the talk went along after that? Did I move the goalposts? I don't think I did, since what I've said originally was so vague.

"And I'll keep every post about your dishonest self nice and very public for all to see, just as it should be."
Oh. Thanks? That is very gracious of you? Of not removing my posts?
You know; go ahead. Do that. I am giving you my permission. Of my activities on this forum, you are free to hold and keep a public thread, on this forum, keeping track of my dishonest self. I'll object if you start digging for personal stuff apart from what I've posted myself here or anything of that sorts. But for the user Generic on this forum, yeah. I'll even promise to drop in and comment on my best moments if you like.

Krulle: Proven to be wrong? Builds legos presents another opinion of what makes a trend (I think ALL appearing undergoing the same thing is a trend, Legos says that two does not make a trend). I can not argue with that. Yeah. Two are not many. You are right. Does it say it's not a trend however, when all so far gone through the same thing?

I can not give any guarantees that I will never say anything that will later be proven to be false. I am known to err. But I will henceforth try to write in a less train-of-thought style here if you find it jarring.

This has really stopped being about the comic at this point. After this I'm out as well. Anyone don't think this is finished, tag me into controversy or PM me.
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Re: 05 November 2018: Whew

Post by Generic » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:35 am

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:56 pm
Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:23 am
Well, it beats coming to a dead halt to crawl into a passage you have no idea of where it is going. Against a thing that kinda does shape shifting as it's schtick. I agree with Axis on this one. I am surprised she was not gored then and there.
While I concede it was a gamble to slow down for entering the hole, Senior and Junior are the only kliks we've actually seen shape-shift like a T-1000, which leads me to expect it's a trait shared only by metallic variants. Obviously, if Buzz could shape-shift, he'd have done so to enter the hole; but Idle has spent long enough around these creatures before meeting Forgath that she probably knows the difference and probably would have sacrificed herself to keep Forgath and the kliks safe from infection if they all did that. (Which I still suspect is demonic and not from nibbling on a magic weapon; just look how similar Buzz's tongue was to the green mud-pit monster!)
I have not thought about that. I kind of put Senior up as a generic Klik, assuming as everyone did what it did with slight variations. I remember Thunt posting about the properties of Kliks but can't really remember where it was.
From a wiki I found:
"Metallic kliks are the most common of the five types. They can appear as any sort of naturally occurring metal and even some types of stone. Along with the ability to hover that all kliks have, metallic kliks can polymorph at will, into basic shapes. When they are in any shape other than their natural form (usually a sphere), metallic kliks are unable to hover. "
Yeah. You are right.

I wondered what the purpose of the pit monster was in story. It just kinda appeared, got badgered and went away. Setting precedence for Buzz being demonic could be a thing. It also did go after her before the others. Buzz seems more determined to hurt her specifically than Pitty did though.
Det är mera än låtsas och leka
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om att riktiga rosor är bleka
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