14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Discuss the comic here!
User avatar
Kingsdragon
Remains Silent
Posts: 6

14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Kingsdragon » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:12 pm

http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-25-2019

Nice, a whole page dedicated to MinMax

User avatar
RocketScientist
Global Moderator
Posts: 5502
Location: Massachusetts

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by RocketScientist » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:01 pm

That gave me feels. :(
Image Image Image

Piximae
Mumbles Incoherently
Posts: 15

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Piximae » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:47 pm

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll think "Not everyone" while looking at the paper dragon and head off to find Kin.

BTW How exactly did they survive the fall?

User avatar
GathersIngredients
Discussion Moderator
Posts: 5046

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by GathersIngredients » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:14 am

paperdragon-hug! :D
The winds of change are blowing, and if I may say so myself: it's about bloody time!
Krulle wrote:My bad memory allows me to enjoy positive news far more often!
Excited for the Isle of Starlight!
Hunters of Letrua: Loki "Boarstrangler" - Obsidian portal page
The wishing fountain: Bombards People With Questions
Lost Mines of Phandelver - Saca Brako (spread sheet - game thread - OOC)
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Krulle
Transcribes Goblins
Posts: 7506
Location: banned
Contact:

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Krulle » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:18 am

"Maxo is gone"? I think it should say "Kickaxo is gone". (Ellipsis already commented on this on twitter.)


Nice page nevertheless.
I love how Parchment (the dragon) is trying to comfort Minmax.
I wonder if the tears will damage the paper dragon...
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Generic
Voices Opinions
Posts: 405

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Generic » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:05 am

This is what happens if you don't heed the unwritten PC rule of "if everyone but you go through the portal/falls through the hole, you follow suit."

https://youtu.be/PUMCIn2swTU

TheOneThatGotAway
Whispers Softly
Posts: 48

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by TheOneThatGotAway » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:49 am

Kingsdragon wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:12 pm
http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-25-2019

Nice, a whole page dedicated to MinMax
Sure, and while I like that he's clearly distraught, it seems weird that Parch' didn't find anything. I want MM to DO something about this situation, he's not the guy to sit on his ass and cry over it, knowing he could A) save his friends or B) continue to go save Kin.

User avatar
Xavier78
Pipes Up Sometimes
Posts: 191

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Xavier78 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm

LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up. Right. Oh, and more 'sad'. How shocking. Last "Everyone I care about dies"? Who died that he cared about other than the Dwarf? What? This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.

User avatar
WorldWarIV
Mutters to Themself
Posts: 27

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by WorldWarIV » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:50 pm

GathersIngredients wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:14 am
paperdragon-hug! :D
I'd take one of that :lol:

bobomarc
Remains Silent
Posts: 8

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by bobomarc » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:12 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up.
This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.
Of course the paper dragon couldn't find the GAP. We clearly saw them drop onto a steep cliff, into water, and then swim underwater to an egress point.

http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-9-2019

User avatar
Generic
Voices Opinions
Posts: 405

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Generic » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up. Right. Oh, and more 'sad'. How shocking. Last "Everyone I care about dies"? Who died that he cared about other than the Dwarf? What? This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.
Not much happens. Minmax spends two frames saying the same thing twice. And I think this page belonged earlier, where we did not know what happened downstairs. We could have gotten a reaction like this (perhaps in half the frames) half a year ago, and now we would see MinMax move into action. Having his reaction straight after Ears and Chiefs self mutilation/I won't let you go/years of torment/pyrrhic victory/"he's buggered off" really cheapen said reaction. I think the page is mostly fine. It's just inserted oddly and holds little content.

But... Yeah. Minmax talking about caring is a bit off. He struck me as a pretty unattached person. Missing Forgath I can understand. And he has a retconned (re-retconned?) connection to Kin. And he has sworn to murder Complains. But Kickaxo?

Speaking of the page. Where is he? On a small ledge? They went up the stairs towards a black void of a tunnel, but now he is just next to a wall? Is he trapped between the chasm and this wall now?

User avatar
Rooks
Speaks Quietly
Posts: 105
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Rooks » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:47 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up. Right. Oh, and more 'sad'. How shocking. Last "Everyone I care about dies"? Who died that he cared about other than the Dwarf? What? This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.
bobomarc wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:12 pm
Of course the paper dragon couldn't find the GAP. We clearly saw them drop onto a steep cliff, into water, and then swim underwater to an egress point.

http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-9-2019
Yeah. Sorry Xavier78. I'm agreeing with Bobo here. If you go with standard physics (which is always dangerous in DnD), even if it took 3-5 minutes before Minmax finally said "Parchment, can you chase after them to see if there alive?" they have already swam way downstream, which additionally looks to flowing as well only adding to their speed, they are way off the drop location by the time Parchment does his controlled descent.

I mean you could make the argument that in a giant cavern the GAP voices would be echoing like crazy and make it back to Parchment, but on the next page after the GAP fall, you see them enter the room with the golem. So as soon as they enter that room, the sound isn't echoing back. I don't think it's unreasonable. That said, it feels like I'm always in the position of defending Eli's work, so maybe I'm just more accepting of the story lines.

User avatar
WearsHats
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7247
UStream Username: WearsHats
Location: Third star to the left, and straight on until midafternoon.

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by WearsHats » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:41 pm

I think it's more that you don't waste your time hate-reading it and teaching yourself to look for anything that might be wrong (even if it turns out that it does make sense and there is good reason for it) instead of actually, you know, enjoying the comic.
Mostly offline/inactive due to chronic health issues. PM me if you really need attention.

"(Asks), why do you want to shoot all of my favorite animals out of guns?" - JibJib

Some potentially informative links, should you be interested:
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
WearsHats
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7247
UStream Username: WearsHats
Location: Third star to the left, and straight on until midafternoon.

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by WearsHats » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:04 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up. Right. Oh, and more 'sad'. How shocking. Last "Everyone I care about dies"? Who died that he cared about other than the Dwarf? What? This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.
Warning
Xavier, last time you were here, you'd missed the discussion about the new forum rules and, due to an oversight, they hadn't been updated yet. I informed you about the change and left it at that. (Generic's unnecessary backseat modding notwithstanding.) But you knew the new rules before you posted. You'd been told they were there and the post had been updated. These are the official fan forums. For people who enjoy the comic. Constructive criticism is okay. Coming here just to talk trash is not. If you've ever posted anything productive around here, I haven't seen it. This is a warning. (And you've already had two official warnings for previous behavior, even if it has been a while.)
Mostly offline/inactive due to chronic health issues. PM me if you really need attention.

"(Asks), why do you want to shoot all of my favorite animals out of guns?" - JibJib

Some potentially informative links, should you be interested:
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Generic
Voices Opinions
Posts: 405

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Generic » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm

WearsHats wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:04 pm
[...] (Generic's unnecessary backseat modding notwithstanding.) [...]
Pardon?

User avatar
WearsHats
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7247
UStream Username: WearsHats
Location: Third star to the left, and straight on until midafternoon.

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by WearsHats » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:48 pm

Last time Xavier popped up, I informed him of the rule change (with the understanding that he may have missed that discussion).

(We had discussed the upcoming rule change publicly. And the tone of discussion did become more productive in the wake of that. But, while we spent time drafting the official language and had agreed on the final wording, the public rules thread didn't actually get updated. Our mistake. It's updated now. But I understand that it wasn't up at the time, even though I thought it was.)

You contradicted me to say you thought it was totally fine for him to keep trashing the comic without adding anything productive, even though, as I'd just specifically said, the discussed rule said it wasn't.
Generic wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:50 am
I for one is totally fine with people saying what they think of the comic, and I am glad to see you again Xavier78.
Later in the same discussion, when I had already given Xavier slack by informing him of the change (so that he would know going forward) without taking any official action, you said you were willing to give him some slack.
Generic wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:45 am
Last time I saw Xavier was in spring. It's not very easy to keep track of rule changes that has not been detailed or published, and are only refered to in long flamy threads a bit back. I am more than willing to give Xavier some slack in this regard.
This implies that I was unnecessarily harsh, while also suggesting that you are in a position to decide appropriate mod action. You aren't officially in trouble for it, but it was inappropriate.
Forum Rules wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:08 am
No commenting publicly on moderator warnings or actions, if you have a problem with how something was handled or about how moderation is handled in general on this forum send a private message to Moose or Wolfie.
Thankfully, the discussion got back on topic immediate after that. Which I am hoping will happen again.
Mostly offline/inactive due to chronic health issues. PM me if you really need attention.

"(Asks), why do you want to shoot all of my favorite animals out of guns?" - JibJib

Some potentially informative links, should you be interested:
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Nina
Mumbles Incoherently
Posts: 10

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Nina » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:48 pm

Hi all!
At first I thought it strange that Parch didn't find the Goblins, but thinking about it, Parch is made out of paper. If it folded its wings and dived, it would fall really slowly. Likely it can go down faster by flapping than by diving / falling.

No where have we seen Parch flying super fast, normally it seems to be flapping along not much faster than walking pace. So I can see how the Goblins would be gone by the time it flew down that far.

***
Who has Minmax liked? Forgath, Kin, Deven Goblin Slayer (briefly), and Kickasso. I think he is coming to respect Big Ears, and maybe Thaco. I don't think he has warmed at all to Complains. But the goblins had clearly become companions; I don't think it is too surprising that he is depressed about losing them. That said, he is likely going to be going after Kin, pretty quickly.

I hope that he finds her, before the yogurt space monkeys find him!

:lol:

Hugs, Nina.

TheOneThatGotAway
Whispers Softly
Posts: 48

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by TheOneThatGotAway » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:17 am

Nina wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:48 pm
Who has Minmax liked? Forgath, Kin, Deven Goblin Slayer (briefly), and Kickasso. I think he is coming to respect Big Ears, and maybe Thaco. I don't think he has warmed at all to Complains. But the goblins had clearly become companions; I don't think it is too surprising that he is depressed about losing them. That said, he is likely going to be going after Kin, pretty quickly.


Hi Nina, while I understand that you're saying Minmax has started to see the GAP as companions, keep in mind that in real time he's been with them for less than a day. "Liking" is therefor a big word to describe his sentiment towards them. He's known Forgath for as long as we know him, and has a love attachment to Kin. Who he's known for a pretty short time too. The ONLY person we know that died that he would regret is therefor Forgath. Kin is still alive, he would've killed the Goblin Slayer himself if he had the chance, the GAP are merely traveling companions with one dude who has his same childlike demeanor.

I agree with a sentiment that was posted a bit higher up here: this page does not fit here. It might have worked better right after the stairs dropping away, with a first image of MM looking at his companions falling.

User avatar
Krulle
Transcribes Goblins
Posts: 7506
Location: banned
Contact:

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Krulle » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:10 am

Generic wrote:
Xavier78 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
LUL Yeah, I'm sure they fell, got up and wandered off so fast, far and quietly a magical dragon just had no chance of ever catching up. Right. Oh, and more 'sad'. How shocking. Last "Everyone I care about dies"? Who died that he cared about other than the Dwarf? What? This whole page is dumb and makes no sense.
Not much happens. Minmax spends two frames saying the same thing twice. And I think this page belonged earlier, where we did not know what happened downstairs. We could have gotten a reaction like this (perhaps in half the frames) half a year ago, and now we would see MinMax move into action. Having his reaction straight after Ears and Chiefs self mutilation/I won't let you go/years of torment/pyrrhic victory/"he's buggered off" really cheapen said reaction. I think the page is mostly fine. It's just inserted oddly and holds little content.
This. I hope it gets moved earlier if this chapter ever gets shown in a mutilated tree corpse version.
Showing Minmax' reaction right after the GAP fell would feel more natural, and a much better flow.
Switching now he's sad to what happened to the GAP would feel better.
(And adds an element of humour, thinking how Minmax is sad, while the GAP is actually quite fine.)

bobomarc
Remains Silent
Posts: 8

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by bobomarc » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 am

Generic wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:29 pm
Speaking of the page. Where is [MinMax]? On a small ledge? They went up the stairs towards a black void of a tunnel, but now he is just next to a wall? Is he trapped between the chasm and this wall now?
I think that MinMax is perched on the broken top glass step. Also seen here: http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-8-2019

I think that the "wall" that you see is actually the floor behind him, but the (drawing) perspective is difficult to see.

bobomarc
Remains Silent
Posts: 8

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by bobomarc » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:28 am

I am reading through some of your ideas about timing:
Generic wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:29 pm
I think this page belonged earlier.
TheOneThatGotAway wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:17 am
[This page] might have worked better right after the stairs dropping away.
Krulle wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:10 am
I hope it gets moved earlier if this chapter ever gets shown in a mutilated tree corpse version.
I respectfully disagree. I have been thinking about this overnight (apparently), and have come to the conclusion that, for me, it is a good bookend to the "chapter."

I think that the logical next step would be for the camera to focus on MinMax for a while. We have seen this throughout the history of the webcomic, and I assume that Elli will use this page as a launching pad for MinMax to move forward.

The page also seems in-character for MinMax. He may be an idiot sometimes, but he feels strongly and quickly. I think that "today" he has begun to look at the GAP differently, but he has a real connection with Señor Vorpal; and he makes these connections quickly (remember the awe that he felt, briefly, when he met Devon Goblinslayer?).

My opinion of the page's timing assumes that the next page will follow MinMax.

User avatar
Generic
Voices Opinions
Posts: 405

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Generic » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:32 am

I see what you mean. But in that case cutting to Kin would make more sense. Since she sees through the familiar.

This page does not tell us much more about minmax than the last frame after the goblins fell did. It does tell us more about Kin and Parchment though.

User avatar
WearsHats
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7247
UStream Username: WearsHats
Location: Third star to the left, and straight on until midafternoon.

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by WearsHats » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:17 am

Minmax hasn't known SVK for long, but they bonded quickly. Minmax needs someone to balance him out. He'd just lost Forgath, and SVK was the first person to break through his grief just as Minmax was the first to break through SVK's trauma. I don't think Minmax cares much about the rest of the GAP, and they don't care much about him. They tolerate each other. The GAP sees that he's helping SVK, and Minmax sees that they're SVK's family, but it's not much more than that. But I think we've seen that Minmax and SVK do genuinely care for each other.

Minmax is a goof, but he cares for people more than is always clear. And he's grown quite a bit from the unthinking adventurer only after XP to someone who can truly love a "monster" like Kin.

But he lost Kin. And then Forgath sacrificed himself. And now, as far as Minmax knows, the GAP just died. (They did fall a long way, and were then washed downstream. And Parchment does fly. And we don't know what other dungeon paths there might have been along the way. They could have washed up somewhere else. It's entirely reasonable that Parchment couldn't find them.) He's due a moment of quiet grief, and I don't think there's a good way to make it less than a full page.

I think, though, that having Parchment will be a reminder to him that Kin is alive. It's just a question of whether he can find her and get to her with no one to help him other than Parchment. That's going to be quite a challenge.
Mostly offline/inactive due to chronic health issues. PM me if you really need attention.

"(Asks), why do you want to shoot all of my favorite animals out of guns?" - JibJib

Some potentially informative links, should you be interested:
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Generic
Voices Opinions
Posts: 405

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by Generic » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:24 pm

bobomarc wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 am
[...]
I think that the "wall" that you see is actually the floor behind him, but the (drawing) perspective is difficult to see.
Panels 1 4 & 5 shows perspective just fine. I am still sure that is a wall. I'll assume the passage continue to the left or right of MinMax.

bobomarc
Remains Silent
Posts: 8

Re: 14 Nov. 2019 - FLAP FLAP

Post by bobomarc » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am

Generic wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:24 pm
bobomarc wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 am
[...]
I think that the "wall" that you see is actually the floor behind him, but the (drawing) perspective is difficult to see.
Panels 1 4 & 5 shows perspective just fine. I am still sure that is a wall. I'll assume the passage continue to the left or right of MinMax.
Yeah. I don't know.

When I looked back at the earlier page (http://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-8-2019) again, I see the same problem. Maybe the glass stairs are mounted to the wall on either side and the one that MinMax is sitting on is floating between the two walls. It would be one of the few steps that was not destroyed by the trap. In that case, behind him would be the wall that marks the end of the staircase and somewhere above him (on that wall) is the passage.

Post Reply