19th June 2013-Get 'Im

[RidcullyJack]

(snip)There's no WAY NinjaMax is dead already(snip)

NinjaMax is there, in the last panel...

[bcas77]

(snip)There's no WAY NinjaMax is dead already(snip)

NinjaMax is there, in the last panel...

I see what you did there. I (didn't) see him too!

[GuessesWildly]

What do you suppose is the minimum level he could do all that, assuming optimization cheese from a lenient DM (like giving up the ability to learn mind control powers for extra INT!) and a much higher point total than he should have? I ask because a while ago some people ran the math and determined that fighting encounters full of 3rd level characters can only get you to ~ level 12 before you stop getting any XP for the effort. Which works out great I think, since level 11-12 is when you start getting 6th level powers like overland flight.

Does that take into account that some people can level up during the dungeon and thus provide even more XP? For example, what if a few characters in the dungeon get to level 4 or 5 towards the end?

The big issue here is trying to figure out the minimum level for a psion to create a Universe Machine, or a device capable of altering the constants of a pocket plane. I'm afraid to say that the lowest level power that could possibly alter a pocket plane like this would be the 8th level power Bend Reality, which is equivalent to Limited Wish. I would fathom that if each one of those gears were enchanted with a separate instance of Bend Reality, together they would be able to change all of the pocket dimension's constants without having to resort to Reality Revision, a 9th level power.
This still leaves us with a minimum Psion class level of 15. Since at 15 you get your first lv8 power.

[sunbeam]

I think the level of any of the teams in the maze is hard to figure. Some of them have templates. Kin is a Yuan Ti, who apparently has an inhibitor device that keeps her from using her spell like (or psionic if you go that way) abilities. But even without those she has racial hit die, being a halfblood. I think after a little googling, halfbloods have 7 racial hit die, which is more than Minmax and Forgath have together, even after leveling.

The Scorpikin/Pipemax/Forghast group seemed like they had more levels. If they didn't they sure blew away the wealth by level the other groups have.

One Minmax had Junior as an arm. One Kin had Goblinslaye'rs template. One Forgath had the Axe of Prissan.

I don't see anyway all the groups in the Maze started out on an even level going into this.

Of course I'm not too sure how closely the 3.5 rules are being followed.

[GuessesWildly]

Also, CR and experience works differently when you are fighting more than one monster/character at a time.
Encounter Level takes precedence. It's not the same to defeat 50 kobolds 1 by 1, than to have them all fight you at the same time. Experience varies depending on the encounter level.

This means that PsiMax, at higher levels could have just teleported to the tower room, announced to everyone that he had acquired the keys, and fought everyone at the same time. Taking into account the ridiculous number of times he has traveled the Maze, he could easily be Epic Level by doing this.

[willpell]

The Scorpikin/Pipemax/Forghast group seemed like they had more levels. If they didn't they sure blew away the wealth by level the other groups have.

They come from a world where magic rings are more common, and thus presumably cheaper. The staff was a lucky find, and yes that puts them above WBL, but WBL is generally assumed to be a loose guideline (and particularly so in Thuntiverse - see the Axe of Prissan).

One Minmax had Junior as an arm.

Probably counts as an intelligent magic item, with a unique "attached to you" clause.

One Kin had Goblinslaye'rs template.

About which we know nothing including whether it is indeed a template. It could be the effect of a Locations as Magical Treasure, or a permanencied spell which also just costs gold.

Of course I'm not too sure how closely the 3.5 rules are being followed.

Goblins is mostly 3.0 actually, not that this makes a lot of difference. (It explains why Dellyn the ranger had a good lot of hit points, that's about all I can think of.)

[LurksQuietly]

Giant MinMax only has one "M" on his badge. He's either Min or Max.

THANK YOU. He's clearly "Max". Because he's definitely not min.

[SamWiser]

(snip)There's no WAY NinjaMax is dead already(snip)

NinjaMax is there, in the last panel...

I see what you did there. I (didn't) see him too!

Don't worry, he's there. We ninja's can tell that about each other.

[Pneumo]

Don't worry, he's there. We ninja's can tell that about each other.

Huh???
Who said that???

[stevedj]

Everyone keeps saying the 11 characters in the final frame are the "eleven minor variables". Well, read PsiMax again -- he said "...at least eleven minor variables" That means there are likely more, just out of frame (or, behind him?).

And if any still doubts that Kin's message was heard by others besides our MinMax... remember that we know that PsiMax heard it, too!

[EatsAPeach]

I can see several ways this could go; PsiMax could levitate, sneer at the crowd, and get an arrow or spear through his head while he splishks the closest alts, or he could stand and fight while MM #156 thinks of a way to defeat him, or he could grab MM #156 and teleport back to the treasure room to face whatever the Kinfolk have done to his machine.
If he'd calm down, the Kins could use the machine to obliviate him, which is what he wants, and then use it to create situations in which every group wins and goes home with their treasure. But I think it's even darker; remember his weird monologue to his Kin before he killed her again? I think he somehow loved his Kin and Forgath and wants them obliviated beyond resurrection as well, and he thinks he's 'helping' when he kills them before they can die again in the Maze. As a psion, he may have recalled each trip through the Maze, counter or no counter, and been driven mad by his memories.
I think his plan was to somehow change the Maze's reality so that it would reset one last time, and then vanish as the winners left. He has only minutes left to do it. If one of the Kins gets into the treasure room, he's lost and must play again to get back in position, including rebuilding his device.

[RedwoodElf]

Naw, the Kinship wouldn't allow a reset before they arrange to remember each run.

[apotato]

Naw, the Kinship wouldn't allow a reset before they arrange to remember each run.

unless the maze is timed, which it would have to be in order to clean up the stabilised cripples and the cowardly non-combatants. otherwise the maze would never reset. with so many alt's in the tower room it's likely the maze is close to resetting

this is the fastest explanation as to why psimax doesn't just kill everyone to minimise variables, doing so doesn't give him more time at all and would, in fact, waste a significant portion of it

[bcas77]

I for one am a major fan of the theory that the "eleven minor variables" are the 11 alts shown in the last panel. The wording of PsiMax's last bubble is, to me at least, the biggest clue. He seems to be saying "But it's nothing I can't easily handle/take care of" but then when he realizes that all those alts (11) are the ones who are "upset" he's a little more concerned about his ability to handle them.

[Mytical]

Am I the only one who thinks the dark skin Kin is not a zombie, but drow? Yes? Ok so I am probably wrong.

[Glemp]

By the way, can we get a lower caseification on the thread title? It's prickling my grammatical senses.

[Arthric]

I'm thinking PsiMax waxes the crowd, but MinMax gets him from behind with the blade. Not smart putting himself in melee range of a bruiser (MinMax) wielding a superweapon, and promptly get distracted looking the other way. This hinges on whether he can affect the sword with his telekinesis.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02102012/

[Arthric]

Also, I'm thinking that PsiMax will be unable to affect the sword at all or even sense it due to his insanely high INT.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02172012/

[Glemp]

By the way, can we get a lower caseification on the thread title? It's prickling my grammatical senses.

Yay! Now I must deal with the spaces surrounding dashes...

[Gurkenglas]

Psimax might have forced his Kin and Forgath to kill the rest of the mazes inhabitants again and again, since his team didnt reset correctly when the maze was set back. So his team farms the first 50 of its Psimax-containing runs to get everyone up to lvl 12, then he and his Kin kill Forgath for the next 300 runs to get up to lvl 16, then he "defeats" her for another 150 runs to get to epic level, and then he spends 400 more runs constructing his universe machine by trapping the souls of the Forgath and Kin of a single given team in each of its gears and kicking the Minmax out by letting him "win", preventing the escape of his companions by the trapping of their souls. After that, a few dozen runs to scientifically determinine the true rules of the maze and here we are.

Edit: How he gets them to comply: Getting the whole team farmed is a reasonable suggestion, if they aren't attached to innocent lives (especially given that everyone else resets harmlessly). Them farming everyone isnt hard as they know the layout of the maze and the other teams by heart after the first few runs. So when they max out at level 12 and get ready to leave, Psimax says "Plan has changed" and grabs Kins leash to command her to kill Forgath on half the ensuing 300 runs (Him managing to do that isnt hard either, due to Linear Warriors, Quadratic Psions). The rest is easy.

[RidcullyJack]

If Psimax has had so much control over what happens in the maze, why does this, his final run (in which he wants to understand all the variables) contain something as inherently crazy and unpredictable as a Shield of Wonder? Surely he'd let that reality win, so he got a more predictable set of opponents to study? Even if the SoW is only hit three times, there are a million different wildy different outcomes of that short battle.

Reality #114

[Glemp]

If Psimax has had so much control over what happens in the maze, why does this, his final run (in which he wants to understand all the variables) contain something as inherently crazy and unpredictable as a Shield of Wonder? Surely he'd let that reality win, so he got a more predictable set of opponents to study? Even if the SoW is only hit three times, there are a million different wildy different outcomes of that short battle.

Reality #114

Maybe because by the time he starts oblivioning everything, the holder of the Shield will have invariably died in a previous room? Then he only needs to assess the variables of the remaining teams. If the Shield is just lying next to Insomniac-Maxs' dead body, it can't be a factor in anything.

[Ulalume]

This may seem trivial and somewhat stupid after 5 pages of discussion over names, powers, and future progression, but was I the only one that found the expression on PsiMax's face in panel 3 the funniest part of this page? I dunno, it always satisfies me when I see an "all-knowing, all powerful" character taken by surprise.

[Aquillion]

Oh, and Minmax #38 did make it to the tower room, without his Grinnorarcen?

Probably he just took it slowly and carefully and let other people set off the traps or kill each other. Usually this wouldn't have worked (he'd have arrived too late and someone else would win), but this time nobody won because of all the shenanigans going on, so he got lucky.

[Mereneth]

Spider-pet Kin has been absent for the past several posts and has shown signs of her tail being bitten by zombies. I strongly suspect team Kin are about to encounter some serious trouble.