Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

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Sleaw
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Sleaw » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:49 am

BuildsLegos, your post was deleted for its unacceptable transphobic contents. In case you were wondering.

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Krulle » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:19 am

Well, I've observed that I often feel a little uneasy around homosexuals (of either gender), and transsexuals.
Mostly due to inexperience on my side.

I don't want to feel homo-/transphobic, bit often recognize in myself a "delay" in the utterance of the positive/supportive expression I want to convey.

As long as anyone does not harm another with being her-/him-/itself, I am of the firm belief, that it's the person's own choice and responsibility.

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by GathersIngredients » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:48 am

I can relate to what you're saying a bit, Krulle.
Last month, when I was in a cake shop, shopping for a (you guessed it!) cake, I saw this cashier, who was very slim and tall (and had an adam's apple) and dressed in a nice dress and apron with long hair. I wanted to go over to her and compliment her on what a charming, beautiful young lady she was, but I couldn't quite muster up the courage. What if they were "just" cross-dressing or something? What if I had read too much into their appearance and they didn't really -want- to be perceived as female?
Instead I settled for writing the owner of the cake shop (who I had to contact for some details on the cake, anyway, because the nice cashier couldn't tell me all I wanted to know) an email later that day, and mentioned the lovely, charming lady cashiering that afternoon, in the hopes that the owner would pass on the compliment if it applied and acting as my "filter" in case it didn't.


And you will probably have read this, but if not (or if you want to look at it again), in this tweet, Elli says it's okay to feel uncomfortable:
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/statu ... 6306297856

And that really is the best outlook I can imagine anyone having on this. Yes, sometimes life is weird, but if we all keep working at it, we can achieve great things together, like understanding one another and accepting one another for who they/we really are and getting over stuff that holds us back (like feeling uncomfortable). At least we can try.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Krulle » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am

I've read her comment on this, and it's one of the reasons I'm comfortable enough to confess this here....

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Sleaw
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Sleaw » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:48 am

Okay, so, my two cents here - i'm sure there are trans people who would enjoy the sort of positive attention that Gathers considered giving, because of course it is well-intentioned and meant as a compliment, but in general i would really suggest you don't go out of your way to comment on trans people's appearances or trans-ness or whatever in a way that you wouldn't do in the same situation for someone cis (which i also think is often done inappropriately, esp. in work contexts, but that's a separate discussion entirely).

Because there is a very big chance that it would end up being awkward and uncomfortable for them, since it's going to feel like you're basically saying 'hey i immediately noticed you are trans and i just had to say something and also here is my personal opinion about your appearance that i am sure you were eager to hear, what do you think about that?' and it's just... it is not great to be put on the spot like that where someone makes you painfully aware of how you're standing out while also immediately treating you different as if you were somehow waiting for their validation/approval. Instead of just like, treating you as a normal person just like everyone else, regardless of your appearance or gender or gender expression.

i appreciate when people have good intentions, but trans people are still people. They don't need to be singled out and be reduced to like their trans-ness. and when strangers start commenting on your appearance out of nowhere, even with supportive intentions, that's how it can easily feel.

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by BuildsLegos » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:59 am

Content removed and safely stored in the admin forum.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:02 pm

To me it read along the lines of "I don't believe this is a thing, and they're mistaken, but I don't care as long as the comic happens."
Last edited by spiderwrangler on Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by BuildsLegos » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:05 pm

Well that's a part of it, but I have no illusion of knowing the details; I at least intended to acknowledge in both posts I could be wrong.

It's smart to not censor people, by the way.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by GathersIngredients » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm

BuildsLegos, you do NOT get to call any forum member (and yes, mods are forum members, too) THAT. This is an offical WARNING you are being given, and FYI not your first one. You therefore have been put into the probation group, which means until further notice your posts will have to be approved before anyone (but the moderators) can read them. Have a nice day.

Oh and concerning "censorship", allow me to quote our dear Admin-moose on the loose:
SeeAMoose wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:37 pm
You also seem to be operating under the impression that you have free speech rights here. We're not a government agency and we have every right to limit things we don't want to see on our platform. We typically try to use a fairly light hand until something becomes a problem, but in this case it absolutely was. Don't like it? That's fine, go start your own forum and you can post whatever you want, use whatever avatar you want, and dictate terms of use, but you can't do that here.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:29 pm

Just to add to the above: We have forum rules for a reason, Legos. The mod team has tried to keep a light hand in general, but you've pushed the boundaries before. Your post here was completely unacceptable. Adding a note that you could be wrong doesn't make it okay.

Your response to Sleaw made it all the worse. You can disagree with the mod team. In private. We'll listen. We're only human, and we do try to give fair consideration. But lashing out (both privately and publicly) with an offensive personal attack that is a blatant violation of forum rules is just digging the hole that much deeper.

Any civilized society has rules designed to protect the good of the community. Our rules are clearly posted. It's not censorship to enforce them. Remember, too, that these are the official forums owned by the comic's author. We don't necessarily endorse the opinions of any given member, but we do have a responsibility to maintain acceptable standards.

Everyone else, please continue with the on-topic discussion.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Synch » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:57 pm

I have zero issues with someone's sexual preference, gender or choice of gender.

The only issues I have are with a) drag queens and b) people who get angered when you use the wrong pronouns.

A) No problem with a guy dressed in drag, but my observation is that many drag queens prefer to act crass and lewdly, quite often very loud and dramatically. I don't really appreciate this regardless of your sexual preference or gender. I understand that's their typical schtick, but not everyone appreciates someone who's behaviour is so "in-your-face." I was at a charity event where one was the MC, and there was just no way to avoid the behaviour.

B) If someone is a male identifying as a female I completely would understand anger at someone deliberately using inappropriate male pronouns, like Ben Shapiro does. But I really don't like someone scolding me if I say 'they' and get corrected to Xis/Xer in a very angry tone etc. To me "them/they" should be the safe alternative if you're guessing a pronoun and attempting to avoid insult. People don't wear their pronouns on a label on their shirt, so if you have an uncommon one like Xis/Xer you shouldn't scold them if you haven't mentioned it to them first. This has happened to me at least twice, and it almost feels like sometimes certain transgender individuals are looking for offence where there was none.
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by GathersIngredients » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:49 pm

Sleaw wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:48 am
Okay, so, my two cents here - i'm sure there are trans people who would enjoy the sort of positive attention that Gathers considered giving, because of course it is well-intentioned and meant as a compliment, but in general i would really suggest you don't go out of your way to comment on trans people's appearances or trans-ness or whatever in a way that you wouldn't do in the same situation for someone cis (which i also think is often done inappropriately, esp. in work contexts, but that's a separate discussion entirely).

Because there is a very big chance that it would end up being awkward and uncomfortable for them, since it's going to feel like you're basically saying 'hey i immediately noticed you are trans and i just had to say something and also here is my personal opinion about your appearance that i am sure you were eager to hear, what do you think about that?' and it's just... it is not great to be put on the spot like that where someone makes you painfully aware of how you're standing out while also immediately treating you different as if you were somehow waiting for their validation/approval. Instead of just like, treating you as a normal person just like everyone else, regardless of your appearance or gender or gender expression.

i appreciate when people have good intentions, but trans people are still people. They don't need to be singled out and be reduced to like their trans-ness. and when strangers start commenting on your appearance out of nowhere, even with supportive intentions, that's how it can easily feel.
Concerning the "treating them differently": I would have said the same comment to the cashier, if she had been a biological female, too. Only then I wouldn't have experienced the hesitation about whether or not my comment would be wanted, and actually gone through with that.

And I admittedly don't have much contact with trans-people (at least not that I know of), but I have seen some interesting comics on the topic and there are such that get a huge kick from "passing". (Which, if I understood it correctly, means they get perceived as the gender they feel they are.)
I just wanted to offer some positive experience to the person cashiering. However, as you pointed out, Sleaw, this can easily go wrong and result in awkwardness and feeling uncomfortable on both sides. Which probably is the reason I didn't go through with that, as far as I can tell.
The winds of change are blowing, and if I may say so myself: it's about bloody time!
Krulle wrote:My bad memory allows me to enjoy positive news far more often!
Excited for the Isle of Starlight!
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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Hjerne » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:59 am

GathersIngredients wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:49 pm
Concerning the "treating them differently": I would have said the same comment to the cashier, if she had been a biological female, too. Only then I wouldn't have experienced the hesitation about whether or not my comment would be wanted, and actually gone through with that.
I have no idea what gender or age you are but unless you are a woman, a very elderly male, or a very good looking guy of about the same age then giving a compliment like that will result in you being placed firmly in the 'creepy guy who hit on me at work' category.

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by speakslittle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:24 pm

Rock the FUCK on!!!!
Welcome Ellipsis! Glad to read your amazing comic! <3<3<3

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Just Karen » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:24 pm

Elli,

Let me know if you ever want to chat about what to expect. I’m here infrequently, though, so y’know, don’t get irked if I don’t reply for a few days.

-Signed, a long time reader (like, since before the reached Brassmoon) who happens to be trans.

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Re: Twitter: [now] new GobCom artist: Elli, welcome!

Post by Inspired » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:25 am

Just commenting to show support to Elli. The comic is awesome, still. Cheers!
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Re: Twitter

Post by redfeather » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:20 pm

GathersIngredients wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
BuildsLegos: {snip}

Oh and concerning "censorship", allow me to quote our dear Admin-moose on the loose:
SeeAMoose wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:37 pm
Don't like it? That's fine, go start your own forum and you can post whatever you want, use whatever avatar you want, and dictate terms of use, but you can't do that here.
(From here)
If you actually do this, Builds, send me a PM and I'll be one of the first members to join your new free-speech forum.

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Re: Twitter: [now] remaining Goblins time/14 years GobCom!

Post by Krulle » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:06 pm

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582509969444865 wrote:HAPPY GOBLIVERSARY! #Goblins has been going for FOURTEEN years, today! I have readers who weren't born when I started doing this!

Thank you for everything, you beautiful people!

As promised, here's the answer to a question that I've gotten over the years and never answered...
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582511101906944 wrote:"How far are we along in the Goblins story?"

So, Goblins is a complete story with an ending, that I started writing (I think) about 16 years ago and finished about 14 years ago. When I say "wrote", I mean messy point-form notes designed for myself as I drew out the comic.
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582512163086336 wrote:I clarify because I don't want people thinking that I'm claiming that there's a finished novel somewhere. When I first started drawing this, I thought I could probably finish it in two years, tops. 🙄
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582513203306496 wrote:I've changed a few story points over the years, most of them pretty small. For instance, Idle's name was going to be "Nabb", up until a few weeks or so, before she appeared in the comic.
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582514264416257 wrote:Some changes have been massive, but those were made very early on. For instance, Big Ears was supposed to die in the initial fight at the battle camp. The Axe of Prissan was going to go to Fumbles (who is technically every class, so has a hint of paladin).
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582515363319808 wrote:The idea being, that the axe that would end the world if broken, was carried around by a guy who commonly fumbles. When the axe finally broke, for awhile there was to be a guilty Fumbles, cursing himself because he thought he was the reason.
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582516432928768 wrote:I was literally drawing the panel where Big Ears dies and I thought "This character would look great as a paladin" and 'boom'. I frantically rewrote all that stuff.
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582517535993861 wrote:So while I know everything that's going to happen between now and the end of the story, I don't know exactly how many pages it's going to take to get there. Some of my notes are very vague, as well. While some crucial dialogue is written out, word for word...
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582518576181248 wrote:...other scenes might have "Minmax and Complains argue about the door" or something like that. The dialogue then gets properly written out when I get closer to that point in the story.
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582519578615808 wrote:And sometimes I realise that some exposition is really clumsy, so I adjust it so that information can be conveyed in a much more natural way. But looking over my notes, my best guess as to how long the comic has left before it's finished, is...
https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582520773971968 wrote:... I 'THINK' I should be done within 4 years. Maybe even three.
Congrats, Elli, for fourteen years of running a successful comic, and thank you very much for sharing this story with us!

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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by spiderwrangler » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:21 pm

My wife and I were married on the day Goblins was first posted, so it's 14 years for us too!
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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by Krulle » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:28 pm

Hey, Congratulations, Spiderette and Spider!!!

(my wife and I passed 16 years a week ago (church, legal was half a year earlier))

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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by kisa360 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:36 pm

Ok, first thing Congrats on becoming you Elli. I wish you all the best. Much like with Lynette Nusbacher's transition it may take me a while to get used to thinking of you as you. (maybe a little longer since I see her weekly on Mysteries of the Abandoned.) For that I am sorry but it doesn't mean I don't want you to be happy.

Now that the pleasantries are done. I have 2 questions for anyone that can answer I did try to find the answers but I may be a little lazy.

Well of Darkness: Any update? My son keeps bugging me because he wants me to GM it.

GAR Card Game: Are we able to purchase this yet? I am begging to give you my money. ;)

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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by WearsHats » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:52 pm

Well of Darkness is being finished. She's been drawing illustrations for it all year. G:AR is not out yet. A lot of progress was made, but I think the focus this year has been comic, medical, Animated, and Animated rewards. In roughly that order.
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Re: Twitter: [now] remaining Goblins time/14 years GobCom!

Post by redfeather » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:03 am

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/1143582509969444865 wrote:HAPPY GOBLIVERSARY! #Goblins has been going for FOURTEEN years, today! I have readers who weren't born when I started doing this!

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/statu ... 0773971968"]... I 'THINK' I should be done within 4 years. Maybe even three.
So, assuming the timeframe runs the full length of this projection without going over, when the comic is complete, it can celebrate by going out to buy smokes....

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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by DCFan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:20 pm

As a trans person (I transitioned 2 years ago), I am happy to hear that things are going well for Elli. it is a long journey and wish for it to stay that way.

Some things I wish cis people would understand:
1. Being transgender and transitioning are two different things. Transitioning is a very difficult (some have it worse than others) and personal journey for us. All our transitions as a whole are different, and as noted some choose not to transition for various reasons (family and job are top reasons given). Despite the emotional harm it does them to not transition.

2. Your safest bet is to go with the pronouns as a person presents themselves. If you can't tell, ask.

3. Drag queens may or may not be transgender. Being a drag queen is a performance art of sorts, not a gender identity.

4. It goes both ways. Transmen (women who transitioned to men) and transwomen exist.

5. Don't ever ask if a person is transgender or if they have had "the surgery". Quite frankly it is non of your business.

6. A lot of us don't know we are transgender until later in life for various reasons (lack of information being one of the many reasons this happens).

If you have any questions, other than those listed in item five, feel free to pm me.

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Re: Twitter: [now] 14 years GoblinsComic!

Post by Tofu » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi Folks.

Firstly, I don't know where else to post it, so I am posting it here.

Secondly, I congratulate anyone who has a realisation that their fundamental identity is not right,and that they are able to take steps to resolve it. That we live in a society that has the medical and cultural technology to achieve this is superb. That we can transition at all is a welcoming achievement and to those who transition, I admire your strength and journey.

Thirdly, is it horrible to admit that it's not a case of flicking a switch inside, and that it takes a bit of time to process? Does that make me a bad person or a transphobe? I accept that this discussion, if any is warranted, is nothing related to Goblins and the art that elipsis/tarol has worked on, and should be taken offline.

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