June 25th, 2013... Simplifying the equation...

[Product Placement]

I believe he will attempt to block Oblivious in melee, and nothing can block Oblivious. I wonder if PsiMax could live without a few vital bits?

http://www.goblinscomic.org/02172012/

For once his insanely high INT works against him.

It's not that nothing can block Oblivious, it's that only MinMax can move it. There's a difference between an unstoppable force and an unmovable object.

Basically, the sword is giving MinMax some mad defense bonus. People blocking attacks from MinMax only have to overcome his strength, in order to block it, just like any other weapon.

Of course, the ability to portal the sword through time and space is granting Minmax the ability to pull off some highly unorthodox fighting style that is throwing off his opponents, thus granting him some additional attack bonus. Possibly, I'd go as far as rule that portalling the sword causes his opponents to become flat footed (denied DEX bonus).

[Zambee]

Assuming that the comic universe follows similar rules to the D&D one, perhaps Psymax not to worshiping any gods knows that regardless of how good he might be able to make his life, he will die a "Faithless" and be unclaimed by any gods and have to spend the rest of eternity stuck in a wall of suffering. Life is a big enough shit pile to have to deal with, but the afterlife is worse and infinite, so why not just step into true oblivion and avoid it all?

[lukewarm]

I like the title of this thread. It's much better than the one I would've picked: "It's raining alts. Hallelujah."

Or: "11 problems but a splishk ain't one"

[Corpsificus]

I like the title of this thread. It's much better than the one I would've picked: "It's raining alts. Hallelujah."

Or: "11 problems but a splishk ain't one"

Psimax here soloin this crazy dungeon
Disgusted by existence like a curmudgeon
I got a plan to Replace reality
because I can see with my genius its fallacy!
I made a physics bending temporal reality distortion machine
in a place where the natural laws are certified lean
So in the maze of many, a pocket dimension,
I'll replace existence with oblivion.

But I'm running into problems, the equations I've created
are being put into question and need extrapolated
so while I search for the variables to complete my quest
my work is disagreed upon by the other guests.
In the maze of many, other versions of a person exist
One such group of alternates, reality 156,
are frustrating my attempts with their annoying quirks
As their Minmax repeatedly insists on calling me a jerk.

So I kill those that try to stop me but my work ain't done
I got 11 problems but a sphlishk ain't one.

[Unlucky-for-Some]

Intriguing and surprising to me to find all this PsiMax hate ... he has at least as much emotional depth as Kore (I recognise that ain't saying much ) and I don't recall people hating on him quite so much.
It's the eyebrows isn't it?

Right now I'm not sure Forgath has ever cast a spell besides cure light wounds, and an inflict. That is pretty odd by the way, because I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone memorize that spell. And he channels positive energy, so he had to mem it. Oh well, it didn't matter because he can convert it to a heal anyway.

Don't forget the badger!

[sunbeam]

Intriguing and surprising to me to find all this PsiMax hate ... he has at least as much emotional depth as Kore (I recognise that ain't saying much ) and I don't recall people hating on him quite so much.
It's the eyebrows isn't it?

Right now I'm not sure Forgath has ever cast a spell besides cure light wounds, and an inflict. That is pretty odd by the way, because I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone memorize that spell. And he channels positive energy, so he had to mem it. Oh well, it didn't matter because he can convert it to a heal anyway.

Don't forget the badger!

Double Facepalm!

I. Forgot. The. Badger.

[RidcullyJack]

Forgath has also cast Bless Water. Bless Water? What the hell was that?

[Slings Words]

I know a lot of readers are taking issue with Psimax's portrayal/concept, but I have to disagree on several points. First, the villain in a story is supposed to represent an obstacle for the heroes to overcome. It wouldn't be much of a story if Sir Knight walked up the tower to save the princess, was stopped by the dragon, and promptly flung the dragon across the realm with no difficulty. You have to paint the villain as a viable threat to heroes.

Additionally, Psimax's personality is a direct inversion of our MM. He's cold whereas MM is very emotional. He's logical and calculating whereas MM is....dumb. Pitting the hero against his polar opposite is a trope that's been used time and time again in storytelling and I don't see much of an issue here.

As for his motivation...well, I can't say I agree with the whole "Everything must be unmade for whatever arbitrary reason". I honestly don't recall his reasoning for doing what he's doing beyond seeing if he's capable. Also, didn't Psimax say he was Neutral aligned? If so, it seems like a very Neutral thing to do, along the lines of "There's Good, there's Evil, there's Law, and there's Chaos. I'm just going to undo all of that and have nice, perfect balance."

[Xavier78]

Additionally, Psimax's personality is a direct inversion of our MM. He's cold whereas MM is very emotional. He's logical and calculating whereas MM is....dumb. Pitting the hero against his polar opposite is a trope that's been used time and time again in storytelling and I don't see much of an issue here.

For the whole "Polar Opposites" thing to work, Minmax would have to be totally useless in a fight wouldn't he? Maybe I'm nitpicking.

[Corpsificus]

Additionally, Psimax's personality is a direct inversion of our MM. He's cold whereas MM is very emotional. He's logical and calculating whereas MM is....dumb. Pitting the hero against his polar opposite is a trope that's been used time and time again in storytelling and I don't see much of an issue here.

For the whole "Polar Opposites" thing to work, Minmax would have to be totally useless in a fight wouldn't he? Maybe I'm nitpicking.

So far he seems to be useless in a fight against Psimax.

[Corpsificus]

He just instakilled, at very least, 5 people with a single action. All the while, he's maintaining a psyching barrier that's successfully blocking off all melee attacks.

That's not MinMaxing. That's full fledge, bona fide Gorgonzola territory.

Pretty much, yeah. The big weakness of Psions in 3.5E is that they run out of PP quickly. Even if you add the ridiculous, "Hey, in a very short time, I can construct a machine that gives me unlimited PP" cheese, that doesn't address the ridiculous, "Hey, I can instakill five people with a targeted power simultaneously" cheese.

I was pretty impressed with PsiMax as a villain when we first met him. Now, I just roll my eyes, because he's just so over-the-top.

And he hasn't even showcased the likely power of his Junior arms, yet...

He must be high level. This is a comic based on D&D after all. Remember, there are spells that can kill several lower hit dice creatures. These spells often don't cost very much to cast and are medium spell level.

Kore was shown to be level 14. Perhaps Psimax is level 14 as well. Perhaps Junior is a level 14 challenge rating.

[Slings Words]

For the whole "Polar Opposites" thing to work, Minmax would have to be totally useless in a fight wouldn't he? Maybe I'm nitpicking.

I never assumed "polar opposites" to mean COMPLETE opposite of each other. If that were the case, Psimax would be a woman, would be of a different skin color (other than purple), etc. etc. But the core aspects of their personalities and skillsets are opposite of each other.

[apotato]

i'm going to keep believing this until proven otherwise in-comic...

psimax cant complete the maze. so in order to escape it he must unmake reality. not sure if it's because the red portal kills it's entrants OR because that reality broke their counter and are effectively cheating. thus the punishment

but i believe Psimax can not finish the maze. his goals may be neutral but his intention is selfish. no idea if psions are capable of detecting what enchantments are on items but psimax may be fully unaware of what the teapot can do...or the various realities have ALTpots and his version doesn't teleport people as much as liqiufies them. it seems likely his group would have finished the maze 2-3 runs after breaking the clock so unless his plan was always to neutralise reality, Psimax MUST have finished the maze before formulating this plan.

[Krulle]

Leeched from:

Finished colouring this panel. Compare it to what's currently on http://www.goblinscomic.com http://pinterest.com/pin/404198135277014232/ 

First panel has been shaded.
For those interested:

Link in case the direct image display will not work for you:

► Show Spoiler

Changes even I spotted:
Text got added: "I am great" on Sumerian Minmax' helmet (on the right)
Kin's tail got colour instead of being black (behind masked Forgath)

[RidcullyJack]

What's with the weird IME glow behind/inside Bluemax's head? Very weird/cool/eldritch.

[Krulle]

Possibilities coming readily to mind:

1. The visual effect of a rage? ("Our" Minmax is a Barbarian with extra feat: "extra rage", so why not an alternative MinMax too?)
2. IME glowing due to the use of magic/a magical artifact?
3. Alternative reality: A rage makes your IME glow.
4. it looks cool, sufficient reason for the author

[spiderwrangler]

Possibilities coming readily to mind:

1. The visual effect of a rage? ("Our" Minmax is a Barbarian with extra feat: "extra rage", so why not an alternative MinMax too?)
2. IME glowing due to the use of magic/a magical artifact?
3. Alternative reality: A rage makes your IME glow.
4. it looks cool, sufficient reason for the author

Doesn't look like the raging type to me, and his weapon puts me more in the mind of that MM being some form of caster rather than melee.

[Morgaln]

I know a lot of readers are taking issue with Psimax's portrayal/concept, but I have to disagree on several points. First, the villain in a story is supposed to represent an obstacle for the heroes to overcome. It wouldn't be much of a story if Sir Knight walked up the tower to save the princess, was stopped by the dragon, and promptly flung the dragon across the realm with no difficulty. You have to paint the villain as a viable threat to heroes.

Additionally, Psimax's personality is a direct inversion of our MM. He's cold whereas MM is very emotional. He's logical and calculating whereas MM is....dumb. Pitting the hero against his polar opposite is a trope that's been used time and time again in storytelling and I don't see much of an issue here.

As for his motivation...well, I can't say I agree with the whole "Everything must be unmade for whatever arbitrary reason". I honestly don't recall his reasoning for doing what he's doing beyond seeing if he's capable. Also, didn't Psimax say he was Neutral aligned? If so, it seems like a very Neutral thing to do, along the lines of "There's Good, there's Evil, there's Law, and there's Chaos. I'm just going to undo all of that and have nice, perfect balance."

The problem here is that at the moment, Psymax is about the same kind of obstacle as a tsunami or tornado. It blocks the characters progress, it's incredibly dangerous, but all they can do is run and hide. There's also no story or emotion behind it, it's just there. If it catches them, they'll survive through either pure dumb luck or through some arbitrary factor that doesn't really have anything to do with the strengths of the characters. Or in other words, Psymax currently looks like the kind of villain that the character don't overcome on their own. That isn't especially satisfactory to watch, and from personal experience in RPing, it's quite boring to play through as well.

Kore, for example, is different; he is also far beyond the abilities of the protagonists at this point, but he's not acting like a force of nature. He's of course also an obstacle, but he's not reduced to that position. There's a story surrounding him that while tying into why he is an obstacle, also could stand on its own right. He's an actual character, and he could be the protagonist just as well if the story was told from a different viewpoint. I personally am looking forward to learning what made Kore into who he is now and how he can be what he ostensibly is, while I couldn't care less about seeing Psymax making more random bodies explode.

I also have issues with extremely powerful villains who prove again and again that they have no qualms to kill anyone at any time if they are in the way but leave the protagonists alive when they are at their mercy. The way Psymax has been acting, I don't understand at all why he didn't just kill Forgath and Kin in front of the treasure room. There's no reason to leave them alive at this point and he's certainly not squeamish about killing. He already knew he'd have to recalculate things at that point, what are two minor variables more, especially variables that have by now proven to cause more trouble when left alive. Also, what better way to get Minmax to draw his sword in rage than to show him the head of the woman he loves...

[Slings Words]

The problem here is that at the moment, Psymax is about the same kind of obstacle as a tsunami or tornado. It blocks the characters progress, it's incredibly dangerous, but all they can do is run and hide. There's also no story or emotion behind it, it's just there. If it catches them, they'll survive through either pure dumb luck or through some arbitrary factor that doesn't really have anything to do with the strengths of the characters. Or in other words, Psymax currently looks like the kind of villain that the character don't overcome on their own. That isn't especially satisfactory to watch, and from personal experience in RPing, it's quite boring to play through as well.

Kore, for example, is different; he is also far beyond the abilities of the protagonists at this point, but he's not acting like a force of nature. He's of course also an obstacle, but he's not reduced to that position. There's a story surrounding him that while tying into why he is an obstacle, also could stand on its own right. He's an actual character, and he could be the protagonist just as well if the story was told from a different viewpoint. I personally am looking forward to learning what made Kore into who he is now and how he can be what he ostensibly is, while I couldn't care less about seeing Psymax making more random bodies explode.

I also have issues with extremely powerful villains who prove again and again that they have no qualms to kill anyone at any time if they are in the way but leave the protagonists alive when they are at their mercy. The way Psymax has been acting, I don't understand at all why he didn't just kill Forgath and Kin in front of the treasure room. There's no reason to leave them alive at this point and he's certainly not squeamish about killing. He already knew he'd have to recalculate things at that point, what are two minor variables more, especially variables that have by now proven to cause more trouble when left alive. Also, what better way to get Minmax to draw his sword in rage than to show him the head of the woman he loves...

I recognize your points and admit the possibility of you being correct. However, I have to disagree with the assumption that Psimax can't be defeated by the heroes own abilities. One particular idea comes to mind, throwing back to Kin's theory of how Oblivious works. What if, playing along the polar opposites idea, the key to defeating Psimax legitimately lies in MM's own stupidity. As Kin theorized, Oblivious becomes more powerful the more the wielder doesn't understand it, and Psimax's schtick is understanding everything. What if this brings about his undoing? Let's say hypothetically that Psimax gets Oblivious from MM...and let's say he begins analyzing it to understand it better so he can make his Un-Reality Engine work. If Kin's theory is correct...Oblivious should become incredibly weak in his hands.

Wouldn't you say, with the already existing groundwork Thunt has laid for this storyline, that this would be a viable avenue to defeat Psimax that isn't a deus ex machina or dumb luck?

[stevedj]

I think it is interesting Psimax splished everything except for the Forgath's ax head, I don't think that really matters to anything but interesting none the less.

I just had a thought on that -- maybe that ax head is cursed! So, of course he couldn't simply Splishk it.

As I was looking at that last frame again, I just realized that not only did all the Alts (at least that we can see) go Splishk, along with that piece of arrow, but every single droplet of goo that was floating up also went Splishk! That does make it seem more like an area-of-effect power, rather than something he targets?

[Master TMO]

I think it is interesting Psimax splished everything except for the Forgath's ax head, I don't think that really matters to anything but interesting none the less.

I just had a thought on that -- maybe that ax head is cursed! So, of course he couldn't simply Splishk it.

As I was looking at that last frame again, I just realized that not only did all the Alts (at least that we can see) go Splishk, along with that piece of arrow, but every single droplet of goo that was floating up also went Splishk! That does make it seem more like an area-of-effect power, rather than something he targets?

Supported by the arrow being included in the Splishking. So there's an Area Effect Splishk power. And note that the second axehead apparently got splishked. So there's either something special about that surviving axehead, or Thunt just thought it looked cooler or needed something to show that it was more than just the people getting splishked.

[spiderwrangler]

This special axehead thing doesn't hold weight with me, as I send elsewhere, unless there was something special about Browgath's beard braid....

http://www.goblinscomic.org/06112013/

Also, now that it's fully colored and shaded, it looks like the 'fleshtone' part of Psi-max's arm was indeed just a coloring bit that was missed on first pass. So much for all that guesswork.

[Morgaln]

The problem here is that at the moment, Psymax is about the same kind of obstacle as a tsunami or tornado. It blocks the characters progress, it's incredibly dangerous, but all they can do is run and hide. There's also no story or emotion behind it, it's just there. If it catches them, they'll survive through either pure dumb luck or through some arbitrary factor that doesn't really have anything to do with the strengths of the characters. Or in other words, Psymax currently looks like the kind of villain that the character don't overcome on their own. That isn't especially satisfactory to watch, and from personal experience in RPing, it's quite boring to play through as well.

Kore, for example, is different; he is also far beyond the abilities of the protagonists at this point, but he's not acting like a force of nature. He's of course also an obstacle, but he's not reduced to that position. There's a story surrounding him that while tying into why he is an obstacle, also could stand on its own right. He's an actual character, and he could be the protagonist just as well if the story was told from a different viewpoint. I personally am looking forward to learning what made Kore into who he is now and how he can be what he ostensibly is, while I couldn't care less about seeing Psymax making more random bodies explode.

I also have issues with extremely powerful villains who prove again and again that they have no qualms to kill anyone at any time if they are in the way but leave the protagonists alive when they are at their mercy. The way Psymax has been acting, I don't understand at all why he didn't just kill Forgath and Kin in front of the treasure room. There's no reason to leave them alive at this point and he's certainly not squeamish about killing. He already knew he'd have to recalculate things at that point, what are two minor variables more, especially variables that have by now proven to cause more trouble when left alive. Also, what better way to get Minmax to draw his sword in rage than to show him the head of the woman he loves...

I recognize your points and admit the possibility of you being correct. However, I have to disagree with the assumption that Psimax can't be defeated by the heroes own abilities. One particular idea comes to mind, throwing back to Kin's theory of how Oblivious works. What if, playing along the polar opposites idea, the key to defeating Psimax legitimately lies in MM's own stupidity. As Kin theorized, Oblivious becomes more powerful the more the wielder doesn't understand it, and Psimax's schtick is understanding everything. What if this brings about his undoing? Let's say hypothetically that Psimax gets Oblivious from MM...and let's say he begins analyzing it to understand it better so he can make his Un-Reality Engine work. If Kin's theory is correct...Oblivious should become incredibly weak in his hands.

Wouldn't you say, with the already existing groundwork Thunt has laid for this storyline, that this would be a viable avenue to defeat Psimax that isn't a deus ex machina or dumb luck?

But even if Oblivious becomes very weak in Psimax's hands, that doesn't matter for him. He doesn't need it to fight or use it for anything, he's very obviously capable of defending himself without any sword, magic or otherwise. He just needs to understand how it works to include it in his calculation. If, somehow, Oblivious is the central factor to defeating Psimax, then he will be defeated because the protagonists had the dumb luck of coming across the one item that could thwart his plans and doing the one thing (sticking it into an oblivion hole) that would make it capable of that. It's not the skills or strengths or beliefs of the group that defeats Psimax in that case. Even worse, very likely none of it would be happening if Psimax would just have killed the group when they first upset his plans
Of course this is all speculation and we don't know yet how this will resolve; I might be completely wrong and there's a chance Thunt will come up with a good plot twist for this situation, and I certainly hope he does. But currently, the sheer power Psimax displays seemingly without effort makes any solution that doesn't use some plot device or lucky coincidence working in the heroes favor unlikely.

[lukewarm]

I like the title of this thread. It's much better than the one I would've picked: "It's raining alts. Hallelujah."

Or: "11 problems but a splishk ain't one"

Psimax here soloin this crazy dungeon
Disgusted by existence like a curmudgeon
I got a plan to Replace reality
because I can see with my genius its fallacy!
I made a physics bending temporal reality distortion machine
in a place where the natural laws are certified lean
So in the maze of many, a pocket dimension,
I'll replace existence with oblivion.

But I'm running into problems, the equations I've created
are being put into question and need extrapolated
so while I search for the variables to complete my quest
my work is disagreed upon by the other guests.
In the maze of many, other versions of a person exist
One such group of alternates, reality 156,
are frustrating my attempts with their annoying quirks
As their Minmax repeatedly insists on calling me a jerk.

So I kill those that try to stop me but my work ain't done
I got 11 problems but a sphlishk ain't one.

That's pretty sweet.

[Slings Words]

But even if Oblivious becomes very weak in Psimax's hands, that doesn't matter for him. He doesn't need it to fight or use it for anything, he's very obviously capable of defending himself without any sword, magic or otherwise. He just needs to understand how it works to include it in his calculation. If, somehow, Oblivious is the central factor to defeating Psimax, then he will be defeated because the protagonists had the dumb luck of coming across the one item that could thwart his plans and doing the one thing (sticking it into an oblivion hole) that would make it capable of that. It's not the skills or strengths or beliefs of the group that defeats Psimax in that case. Even worse, very likely none of it would be happening if Psimax would just have killed the group when they first upset his plans
Of course this is all speculation and we don't know yet how this will resolve; I might be completely wrong and there's a chance Thunt will come up with a good plot twist for this situation, and I certainly hope he does. But currently, the sheer power Psimax displays seemingly without effort makes any solution that doesn't use some plot device or lucky coincidence working in the heroes favor unlikely.

Y'see, I still don't believe that. Yeah, Psimax can dish out quite a bit, but as I stated earlier, there ARE several ways of countering psions. First and foremost, they can't keep dishing out that kind of power forever. They run out of juice just like any regular spellcaster. And I'm doubting he's had a chance to rest since this instance of the MoM has begun, so even at a significantly higher level, he won't go on forever.