September 9th, 2013: What a Pity.

[Master TMO]

Only panel 1 is shaded. I didn't realize THunt loaded them partially done.

[Krulle]

Only panel 1 is shaded. I didn't realize THunt loaded them partially done.

Since a few comics he's doing that.
It gives a good impression of the progress, and intermediate results...

[Iron Sun 254]

All the Kins need to do is program the gears to give Psimax the oblivion he so desperately desires.

[Trojan]

With any luck, the Kins (other than sapphire) will realise that something needs to be done about psimax before they reset the maze. Preferably, they'll repair his counter so he will at least forget THEM and won't know his vulnerability setting has been tampered with unless he actually thinks to check.

If they repair Psymax's counter he should be seriously reduced as a threat as he should reset back down to his entry level. If they're feeling nasty, they split Psimax from his party and don't reset his kin and forgath so those two remember everything...

Sapphire's Altsplanation reveals that she forgets anyone who dies. Thusly, she doesn't know Psimax exists anymore, and is not accounting for him in her calculations. It was rather stupid of Onyx to leave her in charge of the machine, but maybe Onyx is busy mooning over Ruby and isn't using her Intelligence. Things are going to go south for the 3-Kin Band after the reset, but fortunately "our" FMK should be well out of it by then.

"Stupid" may be harsh - they may not know about Sapphire's condition, I can't see Ruby asking about her Forgath or Minmax much.

[The Rotting King]

I lost it when I read "Take the pity win."

[willpell]

They could have the maze spawn them in the gear room when the entire maze resets, and teleport themselves to various rooms within the maze to do combat and gather loot and teleport back, much like Psimax was doing when he teleported.

There's no reason to think that Psimax needed the machine to teleport; he could just manifest Psionic Dimension Door.

(What I wonder though, since Psimax made the machine out of his own psionic energy, why does it still exist now that he's dead, and will it continue to exist indefinitely? Who does Sapphire think made it, since she can't remember Psimax?)

All the Kins need to do is program the gears to give Psimax the oblivion he so desperately desires.

That wouldn't work. If Psimax ever existed, then he hasn't been obliviated. Hence why he has to unmake an entire (if small) universe, in order to make it so that nothing within that universe ever had existed. If you only remove something from part of space and time, the rest of space and time creates a "hole" around the removed part; that isn't true oblivion as far as PM is concerned.

"Stupid" may be harsh - they may not know about Sapphire's condition, I can't see Ruby asking about her Forgath or Minmax much.

Hm. Rereading her Altsplanation, I had thought before that this stated clearly that the rest of the Kinship knew about her, but I guess that was more like a fan theory which my brain took as canon. So perhaps they don't know. Maybe that's how the serpent will become prey....

[Unlucky-for-Some]

They could remake PsiMax's counter out of something he can't affect so he can't break it again and then set his weakness to connect to every number that isn't tied to a universal constant so that most of the Alts are immune to him (and obviously make themselves immune to him in the process by giving their new team number immunity to him) and then he is going to have a very nasty time all of the time.

Ooh and it just occurred to me that if they make his own number one of those numbers then not only can he not kill his Kin and Forgath but he might not then be able to affect himself with his Psionics either - so no more teleporting/levitating/self-healing etc

[Catmandont]

HA! I'd always seen those keys, I recognized them but didn't know what to think of them. God this comic has so much Chekov's Gun (although this isn't really a very accurate example, I don't really know what else I'd call it). I love it.

Chekov's Gun-rack maybe??

[Liesmith]

I absolutely love Sapphire's face when she says "That's like...really awful!". She's so so damned adorably cheerful.

[AntMac]

[

"Stupid" may be harsh - they may not know about Sapphire's condition, I can't see Ruby asking about her Forgath or Minmax much.

Hm. Rereading her Altsplanation, I had thought before that this stated clearly that the rest of the Kinship knew about her, but I guess that was more like a fan theory which my brain took as canon. So perhaps they don't know. Maybe that's how the serpent will become prey....

I am so glad that it isn't just me who does that brain-construct-unique-canon thing.

[Changes_everything]

I think it will have to do with the manual reset. They can either pick and choose who resets, effectively banishing Psimax, or they can control WHEN the maze resets, allowing them to be waiting in Psimax's entry room for him and killing him as soon as he appears. (resetting his number first to something relating to themselves.) The only catch to this is Sapphire's amnesia problem.

Setting the maze to manual instead of automatic, my thought:
This is a bad idea. Is that line just happy chatter? No. It's Thunt setting up one of his evil twists.

Why? Because if the Kinship are killed all at once in a future run or just cannot get back to the control room for whatever reason, then they are, umm, doomed.

[Iron Sun 254]

Why? Because if the Kinship are killed all at once in a future run or just cannot get back to the control room for whatever reason, then they are, umm, doomed.

If they die and they've they built in a fix for Psimax, every other version who dies there is doomed as well (unless someone else who can figure out the setup makes it.) No reset means death is permanent for everyone.


The fix for Psimax is actually pretty simple. Set his "weakness" number to match the reality he comes from. His version of Forgath and Kin would become immune to his power and would be able to take him out before the door to the maze opens...again and again and again.

[spiderwrangler]

I just noticed with it shaded how bendy Symon's legs are... he looks like a furry octopus in this page.

[wyrmbear]

Rapid-Fire Theory:
FMK gets out.
Kinship resets MoM.
Psimax resets as well due to Sap's inability to remember to do anything about him.
Psimax poofs to Machine.
Psimax finishes his task and Obliviates the entire MoM and himself.
Continue with FMK and Goblins, never having to worry about dealing with MoM again.
fin.

[willpell]

Calling her "Sap" is both cruel and hilariously apt.

Also Psimax's objective is impossible. In order for him to obliviate the Maze so it never existed, he'd have to make all of US forget about it. If any reality is aware of the maze, even thinking it fictional, then the Maze existed, and Oblivion has not been attained.

[wyrmbear]

Existential philosophy at its best! lol

It's not cruel at all, besides, when I die, she'll never remember it.

[TBFProgrammer]

Also Psimax's objective is impossible. In order for him to obliviate the Maze so it never existed, he'd have to make all of US forget about it. If any reality is aware of the maze, even thinking it fictional, then the Maze existed, and Oblivion has not been attained.

Or, rather, success would render all other universes that are in any way connected to the Maze unto Oblivion as well by the fact that Psimax has proven the Maze logically inconsistent. That would include us.

Of course, his success hinges on the universe of the Maze being inconsistent, as he can't prove it to be incosistent if it is, in fact, consistent. Additionally, if the Maze is inconsistent, it does not neccesarily have to obey the logic that an inconsistent universe can't exist. So, it may well be that Psimax' goal is well and truly impossible (or just that any given logical result doesn't apply).

[willpell]

Consistency is overrated, unless you're baking.

[Orzahn]

So, am I alone in thinking the kins might survive and fool the maze into thinking they are supposed to be in our reality where their presence is generally harmfull for the reality and our kin realise she minmax and forgath need to hunt down and kill them. Also sap forgets about the deas and forgets to account for the kins respective minmaxes.and forgaths causing a great big battle where ourgath dies. And minmax goes and zerks.

[Mithcoriel]

With any luck, the Kins (other than sapphire) will realise that something needs to be done about psimax before they reset the maze. Preferably, they'll repair his counter so he will at least forget THEM and won't know his vulnerability setting has been tampered with unless he actually thinks to check.

What do you mean, "at least"? Are you assuming that if they repair his counter, he will remember all his previous runs, just not this one? Cause if that's true, he will assume this is the run where he's finally got enough information to attain oblivion. Also, he will notice the counter is fixed and break it again.
Does the counter repair itself every run, requiring him to break it again and again? If so, no problem. But if not, the fact that it's fixed will clue him in to the fact that someone defeated him.

Ooh and it just occurred to me that if they make his own number one of those numbers then not only can he not kill his Kin and Forgath but he might not then be able to affect himself with his Psionics either - so no more teleporting/levitating/self-healing etc

You beat me to it. Yes, that would be neat. Question is though: what about his poor team?
Come to think of it, they should let his Forgath and Kin win, so they're out of the maze and Psimax is dead forever.

[stevedj]

With any luck, the Kins (other than sapphire) will realise that something needs to be done about psimax before they reset the maze. Preferably, they'll repair his counter so he will at least forget THEM and won't know his vulnerability setting has been tampered with unless he actually thinks to check.

Oh, that's it! We all (or most of us) are talking about by having the reset be on Manual, that it could doom everyone should the Kins die. BUT -- RedwoodElf just said something that I hadn't thought of...

They want the reset of the maze on Manual so that it DOESN'T reset when FMK win and exit the maze. This would give them more time to make their plans, perhaps make other adjustments to the machine, etc. Indeed, I would wager that once they do trigger the reset, that the reset "setting" would also reset back to automatic.

...possibly?

[Master TMO]

I keep wanting to say 'But they don't know Psimax's universe number, therefore they can't do anything like setting his vulnerability to his own number.' But then I remember they have access to the machine and can look it up, since that has to be how Psimax learned the others numbers in the first place. Now that they're not rushed for time, they could probably do that, if someone besides Sapphire were at the controls.

Speaking of ol' Sapphire, what will happen to the holes in her memory if/when Psimax resurrects? Will she suddenly remember him dying? Or will he be a brand-new acquaintance for her?

[Jochi]

Speaking of ol' Sapphire, what will happen to the holes in her memory if/when Psimax resurrects? Will she suddenly remember him dying? Or will he be a brand-new acquaintance for her?

Interesting conjecture of future events.
FMK win and exit with beaucoups loot, since there is no time pressure.
ROS finish preps and reset.
Onyx or Rose says to Sapphire "How did you hamstring the psion?" Sapphire says "Who? Oh, wait, I remember him. Oh, dead mice!"
Psimax says to his Kin, "I know I promised, but I'll try to make THIS the last time." Splishk.
Psimax 'ports to the machine room and finds out something the two teams, or a subset, have done has rendered it IMPOSSIBLE for him to EVER achieve True Oblivion.
But he CAN back the Maze up, change his reality to that of the last winners (which is no longer one of the Maze's current alternates), and complete the Maze, carrying his choices of treasures with him, to exact revenge on him who he sees as the architect of his failure.
He pops out while FMK are trying to decide on a course of action re find the goblins and get the Jade Teapot to the Silkscale Clan.
Minmax fulfills his vow/prophesy and kills Psimax a second time. Again without Oblivious. Then, with TWO Jade Teapots, they use the first to 'port to the Silkscales.
Minmax says "Here's your jade teapot". (Anybody else think his armor when he next draws Oblivious looked, not just green, but specifically the shade called 'jade'?)
They then use the SECOND jade teapot to 'port to the goblins, "Names" specifically.

Edit: another conjecture. I forget who, but someone a while back pointed out the chosen names of the Three are the colors of their belly scales, so, should they choose to name OUR Kin, it would not be Emerald, it would be Amber or Topaz or something. However, now it could be Jade. If so, maybe it becomes a pet name MM calls her, and if so, let's hope she is unaware of the negative meaning of that word when applied to a woman.

[willpell]

However, now it could be Jade. If so, maybe it becomes a pet name MM calls her, and if so, let's hope she is unaware of the negative meaning of that word when applied to a woman.

What meaning would that be?

[Jochi]

However, now it could be Jade. If so, maybe it becomes a pet name MM calls her, and if so, let's hope she is unaware of the negative meaning of that word when applied to a woman.

What meaning would that be?

"a disreputable or ill-tempered woman." Carried in most dictionaries as Jade 2, since it has a different origin than Jade 1, the stone and shade of green.
Definition 2, the first being "a worn-out, broken-down, worthless, or vicious horse".
It is this word that is being referred to when someone says they are "jaded", not the supposed medical benefits of the stone in treating colic.